A letter to game developers

[nitepaladin]

As a consumer it is important for me to be able to share my game experience with my loved ones, friends and family sort of thing. Both my wife and I love the open world RPG settings, games like the Fallout series, Borderlands, and Cyberpunk 2077 all have a place in our personal dialog, and in our hearts. Many developers rely on the first person perspective to create a more immersive feeling, and it works, for many people. Newer games, like Cyberpunk 2077, and the Outer Worlds, however do not offer the option to switch between first and third. While I understand that this is an artistic decision, it does cause an issue many people don't seem to address.

My wife suffers from extreme motion sickness, as do many people in the world. The first person perspective aggravates this, causing extreme discomfort both while she plays, and while she watches these kinds of games, to the point of being unable to do so. I understand that this is not a common ailment, I doubt it's expression is unique to her.

All I ask, or encourage, is when game developers read this, please understand that by choosing exclusively first person, it does bar people from enjoying your stories, and to consider as many games that use first person have, to allow the player to decide the option of being in first person themselves. while you may feel the option of third person detracts from your stories, it may be the only way some players can enjoy them.

For some reading this, the first immediate response will be to not play those games. She doesn't, and can't, as many people can't, and that response is exactly why I'm writing this letter. I'm asking game developers to consider offering options for people who have visual disabilities, so that they can also enjoy their stories with the rest of us.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

No game devs here. Try their own forums or social media accounts.

[Mad Scientist]

You're writing to users here, not developers.
Contact the proper companies for this suggestion.

There are also many other games to pick from which you'll likely enjoy more anyway where you can select those options.

[Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏]

Sometimes it depends on the game-engine's limitations. In Smile Game Builder, the first person perspective is the only way to cover-up some of the shortcomings of how walls work inside of houses (actually, there's 1 more way but it limits what you can design).

Of course, you're actually talking about "triple A" developers, so, for that reason, the advice the others in this topic have given would be better suited.

This is certainly a point to consider, already being considered, by any developer "worth their salt", though, imo.

[Zekiran]

In the case of C77 there are SO MANY visual options, I was VERY impressed. My housemate has it and I made sure to look over his shoulder while he set it up.

Their responsivity to that aspect of gaming is actually quite thorough.

But yeah this is something that's on game devs, not steam, to do. Motion sickness is absolute garbage I know personally. A bunch of games are just... unplayable for me - one of the Alien games I can only play about 20 minutes at a time and only once in a while, because there's no way to disable head bob. Makes me want to vomit and fall out of my chair.

[cinedine]

Fiddle around with field of view and distance to your monitor. Either matching your FOV to what you'd expect from the distance or having more of a visual frame to the moving image.

Motion sickness has been an issue for a long time and affects people differently. Third person might alleivate it for your wife, but it's not a patent solution.

Publicado originalmente por Zekiran:

because there's no way to disable head bob.

This and motion blur. In some extend field of depth. It's just insane that there are still modern games that not allow to turn that ♥♥♥♥ off by themselves.
(Or just not include it. Frankly, I don't know a single person who has them activated.)

[Gallifrey - CSSC Gaming Founder]

Hi OP,

Some ideas for games that might meet what you are seeking: -

1) Try UFO Apocalypse. The cartoon style graphics disguise what is a flawed but ultimately immensely enjoyable strategy game.
2) Baldur's Gate Trilogy (the original). Hundreds of hours of story - one of the best in RPG history.
3) Planetscape. Personally I didn't take to it but a lot of people did.
4) Secrets of Alpha Centauri. IMHO still the best version of Civ . Available dirt cheap from GOG during the sales.
5) Total War games. Try the cheaper ones - Rome (original), Empire, Shogun 2 to see whether they suit.
6) Tropico series. Probably the most fun City Builders. Tropico 4 is the best so far.
7) UFO Aftermath, Aftershock, and Afterlight. UFO with real time battles.

S.x.

[Walach]

Games doesn't use the same character models for first and third person.
And making a main character model can take months to get the animations up and running correctly.

Some games developers using both doesn't even want to add things like crouch just because of the work needed. :P
I also believe the condition is closer to "simulation sickness" aswell, and it can have many variants. I got a friend that couldn't play diablo 3 whenever the background moved. He instantly got sick when that happened. :(

I also heard something about asian people having it worse and that's why they have so many still camera views in their old games. But I have no evidence for that one. hehe.

But I would like more options, more options is always good so don't take this as me saying it's a bad idea, I'm all for it!

[Zekiran]

Publicado originalmente por Walach:

Games doesn't use the same character models for first and third person.
And making a main character model can take months to get the animations up and running correctly.

Borderlands 1 and 2 both have multiplayer support and no third person default. And the real issue is: in B1 they have a console command that a LOT of people myself included, used to take screenshots and whatever else with the character visible. Borderlands 2 *that console / dev command* was removed ENTIRELY.

Even after thousands of complaints about that being a key point behind being able to play without getting sick.

Developers really do need to get their heads on straight.

[Walach]

Publicado originalmente por Zekiran:

Borderlands 1 and 2 both have multiplayer support and no third person default. And the real issue is: in B1 they have a console command that a LOT of people myself included, used to take screenshots and whatever else with the character visible. Borderlands 2 *that console / dev command* was removed ENTIRELY.

Even after thousands of complaints about that being a key point behind being able to play without getting sick.

Developers really do need to get their heads on straight.

To me that sounds like a typical boardroom decision... You got to love those things.

I really dislike when developers remove options, not adding them is one thing but taking them away just sounds like something someone who never uses them would do.

Sorry about your problem. :(

[Ganger]

You wasting your time even writing this OP. Developers won't listen, they already have their own vision of how a game should look and play.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por nitepaladin:

As a consumer it is important for me to be able to share my game experience with my loved ones, friends and family sort of thing. Both my wife and I love the open world RPG settings, games like the Fallout series, Borderlands, and Cyberpunk 2077 all have a place in our personal dialog, and in our hearts. Many developers rely on the first person perspective to create a more immersive feeling, and it works, for many people. Newer games, like Cyberpunk 2077, and the Outer Worlds, however do not offer the option to switch between first and third. While I understand that this is an artistic decision, it does cause an issue many people don't seem to address.

It can often be a technical issue as well. Many developers don't actually render the full player model. This saves on rendering cycles.

My wife suffers from extreme motion sickness, as do many people in the world. The first person perspective aggravates this, causing extreme discomfort both while she plays, and while she watches these kinds of games, to the point of being unable to do so. I understand that this is not a common ailment, I doubt it's expression is unique to her.

Its not an uncommon one. which is why the FOV slider, Head sway, and gun bobbing have toggles in most settings. And even this isn't enough for some people.

All I ask, or encourage, is when game developers read this, please understand that by choosing exclusively first person, it does bar people from enjoying your stories, and to consider as many games that use first person have, to allow the player to decide the option of being in first person themselves. while you may feel the option of third person detracts from your stories, it may be the only way some players can enjoy them.

They already do this. There are plenty of games that are 3rd person, there are plenty of games that allow you to switch between first and third, just enjoy those.

For some reading this, the first immediate response will be to not play those games. She doesn't, and can't, as many people can't, and that response is exactly why I'm writing this letter. I'm asking game developers to consider offering options for people who have visual disabilities, so that they can also enjoy their stories with the rest of us.

Devs make these decisions during development,, because its not as simple as just zooming the camera out, not when done properly. Many games are designed around the limitations of the players perspective, which allows them to pull off certain tricks and create tension in scenarios

[BossGalaga]

Publicado originalmente por nitepaladin:

As a consumer it is important for me to be able to share my game experience with my loved ones, friends and family sort of thing. Both my wife and I love the open world RPG settings, games like the Fallout series, Borderlands, and Cyberpunk 2077 all have a place in our personal dialog, and in our hearts.

A major reason for first-person perspective is immersion, especially in the games that you mentioned. Additionally, it also has to do with game balancing, especially in games with PVP, not to mention that many in many games, it's not just as simple as changing the camera. Because when you change the point of view, it affects other game systems and mechanics.

And yes, as other posters mentioned, if you're trying to reach out to game developers then you should actually reach out to them. You're not going to get traction from the game industry by making a random post on the Steam forums. Reddit gets more visibility from developers than the Steam forums do, and that's not saying a lot.

[Lily McFluffy Butt]

I'm gonna be real with you, the amount of people who get motion sick from first person perspectives is actually kinda low. And unfortunately, the benefit of catering to that does not outweigh the cost of having to almost completely redesign a game's mechanics to work in third person. It's simply not as simple as just slapping in a third person command. (Old games did this and well, it was almost always buggy.)

[Tito Shivan]

Publicado originalmente por nitepaladin:

As a consumer it is important for me to be able to share my game experience with my loved ones, friends and family sort of thing. Both my wife and I love the open world RPG settings, games like the Fallout series, Borderlands, and Cyberpunk 2077 all have a place in our personal dialog, and in our hearts. Many developers rely on the first person perspective to create a more immersive feeling, and it works, for many people. Newer games, like Cyberpunk 2077, and the Outer Worlds, however do not offer the option to switch between first and third. While I understand that this is an artistic decision, it does cause an issue many people don't seem to address.

My wife suffers from extreme motion sickness, as do many people in the world. The first person perspective aggravates this, causing extreme discomfort both while she plays, and while she watches these kinds of games, to the point of being unable to do so. I understand that this is not a common ailment, I doubt it's expression is unique to her.

As someone who suffers from motion sickness in FPSs You both may want to check what 'triggers' it when playing. In some cases it's not the perspective itself but the default 'Field of view' (quite often set up for a console viewing experience, where the screen is further from the eyes than in a computer setup) giving a 'playing through binoculars' experience. I know this to be the case of Borderlands for example (had to fiddle with the setting to make it enjoyable).
Other triggers for it may be head bobbing (the screen imitating the head movement while running) or motion blur.

In my case it's mostly triggered by either a shallow DOF or a excessive head bobbing (Surprisingly I somehow don't get motion sickness playing in VR)

Once I know what it triggers for me I got the habit of looking at forums and reviews for these factors and check if these options can be changed or disabled before making a purchase. In some cases it has allowed me to enjoy games I wouldn't have (IE: Borderlands) in others it has lead to a no-purchase decision.

At the last resource Steam allows you for two hours of playtime to check if a game is going to trigger that motion sickness or not

However as other people have posted here it's not frequent for devs to offer such settings (sometimes even for technical reasons) so I've opted to 'vote with my wallet' and not buy certain games.

[nitepaladin]

Publicado originalmente por Tito Christmas:

Publicado originalmente por nitepaladin:

As a consumer it is important for me to be able to share my game experience with my loved ones, friends and family sort of thing. Both my wife and I love the open world RPG settings, games like the Fallout series, Borderlands, and Cyberpunk 2077 all have a place in our personal dialog, and in our hearts. Many developers rely on the first person perspective to create a more immersive feeling, and it works, for many people. Newer games, like Cyberpunk 2077, and the Outer Worlds, however do not offer the option to switch between first and third. While I understand that this is an artistic decision, it does cause an issue many people don't seem to address.

My wife suffers from extreme motion sickness, as do many people in the world. The first person perspective aggravates this, causing extreme discomfort both while she plays, and while she watches these kinds of games, to the point of being unable to do so. I understand that this is not a common ailment, I doubt it's expression is unique to her.

As someone who suffers from motion sickness in FPSs You both may want to check what 'triggers' it when playing. In some cases it's not the perspective itself but the default 'Field of view' (quite often set up for a console viewing experience, where the screen is further from the eyes than in a computer setup) giving a 'playing through binoculars' experience. I know this to be the case of Borderlands for example (had to fiddle with the setting to make it enjoyable).
Other triggers for it may be head bobbing (the screen imitating the head movement while running) or motion blur.

In my case it's mostly triggered by either a shallow DOF or a excessive head bobbing (Surprisingly I somehow don't get motion sickness playing in VR)

Once I know what it triggers for me I got the habit of looking at forums and reviews for these factors and check if these options can be changed or disabled before making a purchase. In some cases it has allowed me to enjoy games I wouldn't have (IE: Borderlands) in others it has lead to a no-purchase decision.

At the last resource Steam allows you for two hours of playtime to check if a game is going to trigger that motion sickness or not

However as other people have posted here it's not frequent for devs to offer such settings (sometimes even for technical reasons) so I've opted to 'vote with my wallet' and not buy certain games.

THANK YOU, We had never looked into changing HOW the fps works itself. We will look into those options and see if any adjustments can make it easier to play for her! that is absolutely brilliant!