My horrible experience with support (valve doesn't care if there are errors in bans)

[Phantomfire57]

Redone after the flustercluck of my last thread.

sorry if there are some formatting/grammatical errors.

This is a serious thread, free insults or finger pointing will be ignored.
I did not contact support this much, tried to contact valve, made a thread on reddit (deleted because redditors) and make a thread here to be insulted by randos.

I already offered to openly explain myself in the responses.

THIS THREAD, EVEN IF IT TALKS ABOUT IT, DOES NOT CONCERN MY BAN.
THIS THREAD IS NOT MY REQUEST TO BE UNBANNED.
Although if you have some kind of connection to the CS team or valve I would happily take your help (IN PRIVATE) by this I do not mean a free get out of jail card but just someone I could list my points to so that the decision can be made fairly.

The conversations with support are obviously summarized and very generally glossed over for the sake of lenght and mental sanity.

This thread talks about the fact that valve doesn't care about what you have to say, more specifically CSGO support is probably forced to not care.
This thread is to report the current flaws of the system/policies and to warn people about the potential danger of losing valuable stuff associated with their account.

We also know that VAC isn't the most reliable thing ever existed, while I'm here writing there is likely a russian kid bhopping and wallhacking around.


From the responses on my last thread I'm lead to belive that my GAME (remeber that) ban was issued by VACnet that took the place of Overwatch.

I was never told this, the ban notice informed me that my ban was issued by overwatch and that investigators saw my
footage and unanimously decided to ban me, this is a lie, VACnet for what I'm lead to believe is automated and Overwatch has been discontinued.

I tried contacting support, at first i was clueless and even volunteered to send them any kind of log file they wanted to show that I had nothing to hide.
"here is the faq page", followed by an immediate closing of the ticket (support never closed a ticket on me until now).
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4E54-0B96-D0A4-1557

Let's anylize:

CS:GO game bans are permanent, non-negotiable, and cannot be removed by Steam Support. (There have been articles about pro players, and forums posts about people with family members at valve, being unbanned)

Why? This policy was done even before VACnet, what if human error was involved?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you tell me why I was game banned?
No. We do not disclose the reason for your game ban.

Why? And also, this Policy is contradicted in the ban notice, by valve:

"Some players have reported inappropriate behavior associated with your account.
Surveillance investigators then analyzed the footage of the match and investigated the use of external software to gain better aim,
greater vision or some other type of unfair advantage, concluding that a permanent ban was appropriate in this case."

Since, yeah, they did in fact tell me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I appeal my game ban?
No. Game bans cannot be appealed and are not removed from accounts.

Why? It's a game ban, since valve is so full of his invincible VAC why can't I appeal if VAC didn't find motified data or external software?

Also this policy gets contradicted here: https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/46DB-4CEC-F7E9-49E5
"Do players have the ability to appeal bans?
Players should contact the game developer if they wish to appeal a game ban, since the developer has the data describing why the ban occurred."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I move my CS:GO items to a different account?
No. CS:GO items cannot be moved from a game banned account to a different account.

Why? Steam is aware if you have two accounts and support can easily see that (remeber for later)
Also, I might give some slack when it comes to trading but why not sell it away?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also the page https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/46DB-4CEC-F7E9-49E5 sends you in a loop (other than contradicting valve themselves)
if you in fact do what the guide will tell you you'll just end up on the main support page since valve itself is the developer.

Ask support about the loop I figured.
"we have already given information", ticket is closed.

Start to dig by myself since support seems uncooperative, mail some people at valve (some directors and the head of support), nothing.
Search for CS developer, nothing.

Here is were support started to do scummy things.

Contact support ask for help about the ban, list all my reasons. The first two lines are read, my list ignored.
"here is the faq about VAC ban", ticket closed (I asked specifically to not being redirected to a ban faq page).

One month passes (I have a life), ask for help about finding actual people that could listen to me since support can't do anything.
"here is the faq, also don't spam or we'll limit you", ticket is closed.

I open another, asking to not redirect me to the faq but if possible to someone, saying that I even contacted people at valve but with no success. And asking why I'm being threathened with a limitation (since I did not in fact spam. I did not copy paste my tickets nor flodded the support. Also you can't accuse me of spam if you constantly close the tickets on me forcing me to create new ones).
Angry operator starts "don't contact anyone we'll limit you (how do you limit my email?), I see you have been VAC" (??wasn't I game banned??) "banned and I see you have another account linked on your phone where you use cheats too".
??????? The account was new, it's the second one I did after getting banned. Ticket gets closed.
I get suspicious and hop on the other account, my bio and profile picture were removed seemingly out of spite (they didn't go againt steam guidelines), I got limited from changing them for a week and limited on my first account for a couple of days from sending help requests.

Why is it indicated that steam support can't remove bans but then have the power to see my VAC record, the accounts linked on my phone and change/limit them?


After the limit time I ask support of why they acting so harshly and pleading them to at least if possible giving me some contacts telling them that I do not in fact want the faq page.
"here is the faq about VAC ban", ticket closed.

Open another, tell them my ban isn't a VAC ban but a game one and questioning them if they even saw my profile or are even interested in my case.
"here is the faq about game bans", ticket closed.

Give up for two months.

Open a ticket asking if we can make an agreement about me deleting the game from my account permanently and having the ban from my items lifted temporarily so that I can SELL them.
"Sorry we would like to help you but you can't REFUND skins" another operator comes and closes the ticket.

Open another ticket explaining that there was a misunderstanding in the last (indicating that since it was an already opened topic i would like the last operator) and I would like to sell them,
not refund them.
An operator that I've never seen before:
"Here is the faq about VAC bans", ticket closed.



Breh, I didn't even mention my ban in the ticket.



Make a last ticket because I'm done by this point. Point out all the shenanigans, make a huge list of my points, expose some shady policies and practice they do.
No, this time they actually respond like humans, it seemed like it was going well, I even thanked them for not closing the ticket (something I prayed them not to in the last ones, but of course they didn't care). A random operator comes and closes the ticket out of the blue without no one's consent.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So here are my points against support/whoever pulls the strings at support:

-Threats about limitng me for literally asking for help because "I'm spamming" with tickets spaced between one another of at least one month (and also of course I spam, you close the tickets on me).
-Harrasment on my secondary account after one of them got butthurt about me trying to contact someone at valve through email (removed my image and bio limiting me for a week, the image and bio weren't against steam policy).
-Never looked at my case or even read my tickets limiting to copy/paste messages and closure of ticket without helping or answering my questions (they literally responded about a thing I never mentioned in my ticket).
-Never looked at my account leading them to respond for the wrong reasons or not understanding my position.
-Closure of ticket when questioned about scummy things valve does (like unbanning famous people or family members).
-Just straight out lying to you in hope you give up.
-Closure of tickets without letting you explain yourself fully.
-Operators jump into other operators tickets and close them with no one's approval.
-Refusing to even give me some kind of directions or contacts.
-Closure of ticket when your points start to actually make sense so they don't know how to respond (using steam policy against them).

-Too strict policies don't leave a margin of error.


It's not only the support fault, the policies are horrible especially for CSGO, in every game you can appeal a ban, because errors do happen. The fact that you don't even get a last word is worrying.

Do not buy skins, they add nothing to the game and someday you can find yourself with them stuck there out of the blue without a reason (apart if you cheated of course).

And please, I know it might be useless or sound scummy from me but please do not cheat, this crazy policies were most probably made to counter the great influx of cheaters that CSGO has, instead of fixing VAC they ban people like me.
And please on the forums don't directly point fingers, some people actually didn't do something wrong, this is all based on algorithms and 1 chance in 1 million does exist.






If you think I'm saying ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or whatever, everyone is free to think what it likes I'll just advise you to go to my profile, see the level, see the years, see the number of games and see the comments from my friends (real life ones too) that of course know I never cheated (even because they would have been the first to make fun of me).



If someone wants to know how I was banned I'm not 100% sure, I have an idea but I can't say for certain, I'm open to let people know in private since this thread does not regard my ban.

[ุ]

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

Publicado originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Most false bans will have been removed by the first 3 weeks of the ban. It's unlikely a ban that hits 100+ days is false, but it DOES happen, rarely.

There have been a very small number of cases where false bans make it to 100+ days, and still get revoked.


The bans are routinely checked, and re-checked. False bans are automatically removed, if your ban isn't removed, it's safe to assume it will be in time, or isn't false.

Harassing support only ends with support blocking you from making tickets.

well I don't know what to do anymore then, I just hope it will be because then I'll have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea of what happened and might have to resort to a pc wipe just to be sure which is something I really don't want to do.

OW bans come from viewed content, not from scanned programs. Which is why I added that using info from cheaters, can also net you a ban.

I remember a case where a guy's buddy was dead, and walling. Fed him all the info in comms, so when OW overlooked the case, it looked like the guy himself was walling.

His ban wasn't lifted, because it was still cheating.

[Phantomfire57]

Publicado originalmente por The Living Tribunal:

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

Redone after the flustercluck of my last thread.

sorry if there are some formatting/grammatical errors.

This is a serious thread, free insults or finger pointing will be ignored.
I did not contact support this much, tried to contact valve, made a thread on reddit (deleted because redditors) and make a thread here to be insulted by randos.

THIS THREAD, EVEN IF IT TALKS ABOUT IT, DOES NOT CONCERN MY BAN.
THIS THREAD IS NOT MY REQUEST TO BE UNBANNED.
Although if you have some kind of connection to the CS team or valve I would happily take your help (IN PRIVATE) by this I do not mean a free get out of jail card but just someone I could list my points to so that the decision can be made fairly.

The conversations with support are obviously summarized and very generally glossed over for the sake of lenght and mental sanity.

This thread talks about the fact that valve doesn't care about what you have to say, more specifically CSGO support is probably forced to not care.
This thread is to report the current flaws of the system/policies and to warn people about the potential danger of losing valuable stuff associated with their account.

We also know that VAC isn't the most reliable thing ever existed, while I'm here writing there is likely a russian kid bhopping and wallhacking around.


From the responses on my last thread I'm lead to belive that my GAME (remeber that) ban was issued by VACnet that took the place of Overwatch.

I was never told this, the ban notice informed me that my ban was issued by overwatch and that investigators saw my
footage and unanimously decided to ban me, this is a lie, VACnet for what I'm lead to believe is automated and Overwatch has been discontinued.

I tried contacting support, at first i was clueless and even volunteered to send them any kind of log file they wanted to show that I had nothing to hide.
"here is the faq page", followed by an immediate closing of the ticket (support never closed a ticket on me until now).
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/4E54-0B96-D0A4-1557

Let's anylize:

CS:GO game bans are permanent, non-negotiable, and cannot be removed by Steam Support. (There have been articles about pro players, and forums posts about people with family members at valve, being unbanned)

Why? This policy was done even before VACnet, what if human error was involved?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you tell me why I was game banned?
No. We do not disclose the reason for your game ban.

Why? And also, this Policy is contradicted in the ban notice, by valve:

"Some players have reported inappropriate behavior associated with your account.
Surveillance investigators then analyzed the footage of the match and investigated the use of external software to gain better aim,
greater vision or some other type of unfair advantage, concluding that a permanent ban was appropriate in this case."

Since, yeah, they did in fact tell me.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I appeal my game ban?
No. Game bans cannot be appealed and are not removed from accounts.

Why? It's a game ban, since valve is so full of his invincible VAC why can't I appeal if VAC didn't find motified data or external software?

Also this policy gets contradicted here: https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/46DB-4CEC-F7E9-49E5
"Do players have the ability to appeal bans?
Players should contact the game developer if they wish to appeal a game ban, since the developer has the data describing why the ban occurred."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can I move my CS:GO items to a different account?
No. CS:GO items cannot be moved from a game banned account to a different account.

Why? Steam is aware if you have two accounts and support can easily see that (remeber for later)
Also, I might give some slack when it comes to trading but why not sell it away?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also the page https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/46DB-4CEC-F7E9-49E5 sends you in a loop (other than contradicting valve themselves)
if you in fact do what the guide will tell you you'll just end up on the main support page since valve itself is the developer.

Ask support about the loop I figured.
"we have already given information", ticket is closed.

Start to dig by myself since support seems uncooperative, mail some people at valve (some directors and the head of support), nothing.
Search for CS developer, nothing.

Here is were support started to do scummy things.

Contact support ask for help about the ban, list all my reasons. The first two lines are read, my list ignored.
"here is the faq about VAC ban", ticket closed (I asked specifically to not being redirected to a ban faq page).

One month passes (I have a life), ask for help about finding actual people that could listen to me since support can't do anything.
"here is the faq, also don't spam or we'll limit you", ticket is closed.

I open another, asking to not redirect me to the faq but if possible to someone, saying that I even contacted people at valve but with no success. And asking why I'm being threathened with a limitation (since I did not in fact spam. I did not copy paste my tickets nor flodded the support. Also you can't accuse me of spam if you constantly close the tickets on me forcing me to create new ones).
Angry operator starts "don't contact anyone we'll limit you (how do you limit my email?), I see you have been VAC" (??wasn't I game banned??) "banned and I see you have another account linked on your phone where you use cheats too".
??????? The account was new, it's the second one I did after getting banned. Ticket gets closed.
I get suspicious and hop on the other account, my bio and profile picture were removed seemingly out of spite (they didn't go againt steam guidelines), I got limited from changing them for a week and limited on my first account for a couple of days from sending help requests.

Why is it indicated that steam support can't remove bans but then have the power to see my VAC record, the accounts linked on my phone and change/limit them?


After the limit time I ask support of why they acting so harshly and pleading them to at least if possible giving me some contacts telling them that I do not in fact want the faq page.
"here is the faq about VAC ban", ticket closed.

Open another, tell them my ban isn't a VAC ban but a game one and questioning them if they even saw my profile or are even interested in my case.
"here is the faq about game bans", ticket closed.

Give up for two months.

Open a ticket asking if we can make an agreement about me deleting the game from my account permanently and having the ban from my items lifted temporarily so that I can SELL them.
"Sorry we would like to help you but you can't REFUND skins" another operator comes and closes the ticket.

Open another ticket explaining that there was a misunderstanding in the last (indicating that since it was an already opened topic i would like the last operator) and I would like to sell them,
not refund them.
An operator that I've never seen before:
"Here is the faq about VAC bans", ticket closed.



Breh, I didn't even mention my ban in the ticket.



Make a last ticket because I'm done by this point. Point out all the shenanigans, make a huge list of my points, expose some shady policies and practice they do.
No, this time they actually respond like humans, it seemed like it was going well, I even thanked them for not closing the ticket (something I prayed them not to in the last ones, but of course they didn't care). A random operator comes and closes the ticket out of the blue without no one's consent.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So here are my points against support/whoever pulls the strings at support:

-Threats about limitng me for literally asking for help because "I'm spamming" with tickets spaced between one another of at least one month (and also of course I spam, you close the tickets on me).
-Harrasment on my secondary account after one of them got butthurt about me trying to contact someone at valve through email (removed my image and bio limiting me for a week, the image and bio weren't against steam policy).
-Never looked at my case or even read my tickets limiting to copy/paste messages and closure of ticket without helping or answering my questions (they literally responded about a thing I never mentioned in my ticket).
-Never looked at my account leading them to respond for the wrong reasons or not understanding my position.
-Closure of ticket when questioned about scummy things valve does (like unbanning famous people or family members).
-Just straight out lying to you in hope you give up.
-Closure of tickets without letting you explain yourself fully.
-Operators jump into other operators tickets and close them with no one's approval.
-Refusing to even give me some kind of directions or contacts.
-Closure of ticket when your points start to actually make sense so they don't know how to respond (using steam policy against them).

-Too strict policies don't leave a margin of error.


It's not only the support fault, the policies are horrible especially for CSGO, in every game you can appeal a ban, because errors do happen. The fact that you don't even get a last word is worrying.

Do not buy skins, they add nothing to the game and someday you can find yourself with them stuck there out of the blue without a reason (apart if you cheated of course).

And please, I know it might be useless or sound scummy from me but please do not cheat, this crazy policies were most probably made to counter the great influx of cheaters that CSGO has, instead of fixing VAC they ban people like me.
And please on the forums don't directly point fingers, some people actually didn't do something wrong, this is all based on algorithms and 1 chance in 1 million does exist.






If you think I'm saying ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ or whatever, everyone is free to think what it likes I'll just advise you to go to my profile, see the level, see the years, see the number of games and see the comments from my friends (real life ones too) that of course know I never cheated (even because they would have been the first to make fun of me).



If someone wants to know how I was banned I'm not 100% sure, I have an idea but I can't say for certain, I'm open to let people know in private since this thread does not regard my ban.

In other words you received a game ban and want to appeal it. Let me direct you to the correct thread.

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/9/620712364027233611/

This thread is a copy of this site https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/46DB-4CEC-F7E9-49E5 which I put in my thread.

[Phantomfire57]

Publicado originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

well I don't know what to do anymore then, I just hope it will be because then I'll have no ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ idea of what happened and might have to resort to a pc wipe just to be sure which is something I really don't want to do.

OW bans come from viewed content, not from scanned programs. Which is why I added that using info from cheaters, can also net you a ban.

I remember a case where a guy's buddy was dead, and walling. Fed him all the info in comms, so when OW overlooked the case, it looked like the guy himself was walling.

His ban wasn't lifted, because it was still cheating.

told you already, I always played with friends, we didn't do stuff like that, in fact their accounts are still standing. It was something to do with me but I have no idea what

[Phantomfire57]

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

Publicado originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

OW bans come from viewed content, not from scanned programs. Which is why I added that using info from cheaters, can also net you a ban.

I remember a case where a guy's buddy was dead, and walling. Fed him all the info in comms, so when OW overlooked the case, it looked like the guy himself was walling.

His ban wasn't lifted, because it was still cheating.

told you already, I always played with friends, we didn't do stuff like that, in fact their accounts are still standing. It was something to do with me but I have no idea what

also someone pointed out that OW is no more and an automated program called VACnet took his place, I wrote about it in the post.

[Elucidator]

Publicado originalmente por Purple Heart:

You didnt offer a solution, you offered the means to just further have Valve ignore your problems by continual harrasment

Your displaying how to become more of a problem then actual cheaters which is far from the end of good.

What I placed down is a method to check if Steam Support is reading and replying in a biassed or dehumanized manner. They have to start from a clean slate if they cannot check your history, forcing them to treat you like a regular customer instead.
at least so long the ticket is polite, etc.

If bias is the problem, if being treated inhumanely is the problem, then this is at least a method to make that less likely. It is not a solution no, and I do not see how this would cause someone to become more of a problem than 'actual cheaters' in a game. You're not automating this task, you're sending a single ticket regardless of doing it from your original account or elsewhere. The amount of stress on the system would be the same.

Companies have all discarded the phone lines on customer support for many reasons. If a customer base is too big it only makes sense, since people cannot answer immediately and lines take more than days. I cannot find evidence of your claim that it is because of 'stuff like that', which I am not sure what you even mean with that.
but anyway, likely not. Likely it is a decision that they did for other reasons. Administration rarely cares what stress employees at customer support go through. In fact blizzard is known for being abusive to employees (see news articles)
https://techcrunch.com/2022/10/13/activision-blizzard-is-once-again-being-sued-for-sexual-harassment/?guccounter=1
It's extremely unlikely as such.

In all likelyhood they noticed it saves costs when they need to hire less people and react less quickly to support tickets, it also provides better organization.

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

told you already, I always played with friends, we didn't do stuff like that, in fact their accounts are still standing. It was something to do with me but I have no idea what

also someone pointed out that OW is no more and an automated program called VACnet took his place, I wrote about it in the post.

Just...just saying...

VACnet is Overwatch....Overwatch is the CS:GO form of VACnet, while Replay is the TF2 form of VACnet....their literally the one and the same....

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

Publicado originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Falsely applied VAC and Game bans from Valve titles can be automatically removed by their systems of anti-cheats (these are automatically rechecked a few times within this period to ensure detections are accurately applied) no longer than 6-8 months from when the ban was issued.

Years = wasn't falsely applied

I'm not understanding this part, if I play cs will there be a chance that another check will be made on me?

No. The systems recheck what was previously checked to look for errors the system might have had.

VACnet isn't perfect but it is darned better than Overwatch investigators, with false positives being nearly as rare as VAC itself.

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

Publicado originalmente por Elucidator:

-snip-

The phone lines were removed years prior the lawsuits to start with, thankfully their unrelated entirely

[Phantomfire57]

Publicado originalmente por Purple Heart:

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

also someone pointed out that OW is no more and an automated program called VACnet took his place, I wrote about it in the post.

Just...just saying...

VACnet is Overwatch....Overwatch is the CS:GO form of VACnet, while Replay is the TF2 form of VACnet....their literally the one and the same....

Oh ok, thanks for the clarification, if this is true overwatch is blind then lol. In the match I belive (not sure) I was reported I literally miss an enemy right in front of me, I just walk pass him.

[Phantomfire57]

Publicado originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

I'm not understanding this part, if I play cs will there be a chance that another check will be made on me?

No. The systems recheck what was previously checked to look for errors the system might have had.

VACnet isn't perfect but it is darned better than Overwatch investigators, with false positives being nearly as rare as VAC itself.

:summercat2023:

well now I don't know who to trust lol

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

Publicado originalmente por Purple Heart:

Just...just saying...

VACnet is Overwatch....Overwatch is the CS:GO form of VACnet, while Replay is the TF2 form of VACnet....their literally the one and the same....

Oh ok, thanks for the clarification, if this is true overwatch is blind then lol. In the match I belive (not sure) I was reported I literally miss an enemy right in front of me, I just walk pass him.

No worries, I was confused for a while because some servers on TF2 wont allow one to play unless you have Replay on, they also give you 3 chances to have them on so they can watch for cheaters so I've had to always double check mine xD

[ุ]

Publicado originalmente por Purple Heart:

Publicado originalmente por Phantomfire57:

Oh ok, thanks for the clarification, if this is true overwatch is blind then lol. In the match I belive (not sure) I was reported I literally miss an enemy right in front of me, I just walk pass him.

No worries, I was confused for a while because some servers on TF2 wont allow one to play unless you have Replay on, they also give you 3 chances to have them on so they can watch for cheaters so I've had to always double check mine xD

Those are all community servers, official TF2 servers have no such restriction. Lol

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

Publicado originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Publicado originalmente por Purple Heart:

No worries, I was confused for a while because some servers on TF2 wont allow one to play unless you have Replay on, they also give you 3 chances to have them on so they can watch for cheaters so I've had to always double check mine xD

Those are all community servers, official TF2 servers have no such restriction. Lol

I'm aware but as I'm sure you know TF2 has...quite the issue with bots and I've not played on official servers for frankly a few months now, I heard it was a requirement for comp mode but I have no idea if thats true as I dont play that mode either

[Phantomfire57]

Publicado originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Publicado originalmente por Purple Heart:

No worries, I was confused for a while because some servers on TF2 wont allow one to play unless you have Replay on, they also give you 3 chances to have them on so they can watch for cheaters so I've had to always double check mine xD

Those are all community servers, official TF2 servers have no such restriction. Lol

It's kinda messed up to think about the hordes of cheaters between TF2 and CS and then I'm here just poopin' ma pants and with everyone refusing to elaborate further

[ุ]

Publicado originalmente por Purple Heart:

Publicado originalmente por Leonardo Da Pinchi:

Those are all community servers, official TF2 servers have no such restriction. Lol

I'm aware but as I'm sure you know TF2 has...quite the issue with bots and I've not played on official servers for frankly a few months now, I heard it was a requirement for comp mode but I have no idea if thats true as I dont play that mode either

Bots swarmed to the new summer maps, most other maps will have the occasional bot trickle in, and get votekicked usually before it leaves spawn.