Hate speech is getting out of control in multiple forums

[Hatsune Miku]

First off, kudos on the moderators having to obviously put in a lot of work but its fairly obvious that in some forums such as the Hogwarts Legacy, Deadspace and others which all have some sort of transgender issue related to it, the forums are literally toxic with hate speech being the prevalent issue and it is either being ignored or is slow to be taken down.

This is also attracted many trolls posting for award points. The question is, what can be done about this? Perhaps, its time for bans and warnings? I had to report multiple posts which clearly hate speech, others were abusing and some even promoting violence, yes its that out of control.

[Elucidator]

Pscht eredeti hozzászólása:

AmsterdamHeavy eredeti hozzászólása:

"Unsafe" huh?

Is lightning going to come out of the sky and strike them?

I'm sure you would love getting insulted every day and in unrelated-to-anything situations. 24/7/365

Unsafe it is not. Getting insulted doesn't mean you're unsafe. It is however, unpleasant and generally frowned upon. It doesn't help whoever made the insult either. Its just an expression of power, entitlement (carrying an internal justification), by extend validation seeking behavior that carries no empathy.

But aside that, the biggest problem with this argument is that the thread is talking about mainly a single gamehub on Steam and more specifically, about some people who post there.

You do not need to spend every day, every hour of a day on this specific forum. You're free to leave it alone and therefore, avoid the comments that are posted there; you can avoid unpleasant experiences.

The gamehub's forum in question contains comments that aren't pleasant to read and probably harmful to the reputation of the poster, as well as a risk to their capability to post there, but it isn't by any means a threat to one's own safety or that of their system.

Just a note: Victim playing is a double edged sword. Although it may give someone power, validation and grands them aid, exaggerating things can also lead to more dislike, more 'hatred' if you will and reputational damage. People will make fun of people who exaggerate their victimhood in a situation.
Look on youtube for videos about karens for example.

[The Commendatore]

I ventured into the hub and came out unscathed.

Definitely entertaining though.

[Hatsune Miku]

AmsterdamHeavy eredeti hozzászólása:

Pscht eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm sure you would love getting insulted every day and in unrelated-to-anything situations. 24/7/365

Still has nothing to do with the dramatic "unsafe"....and why would anyone even know about these things to comment on in the first place?

Right. People advertise their malfunctions. People want attention. They just arent always happy with the kind of attention they get.

I guess you didn't read some of the comments related to physical violence and suicide then? I only commented on some of the people attacking trans, lying about JKR or posting offensive stuff so please, this post was about all the hate speech in the hub nothing else.

Also, please I couldn't care less about my reputation in that forum because its mostly full of low brow 4channers who have nothing better to do than post racist, transphobic and hate because they have learned that they can get away with it, at worse a hub ban.

Games like this attract a younger audience too and some may look to the forums for guidance and help, and see all the transphobic and hate posts....would you think that is acceptable? That would definitely make people questioning feel unsafe, this issue isn't just with that particular hub - its becoming a wider issue across steam as games introduce trans-inclusive aspects, such as Deadspace and Sims 4.

[Hatsune Miku]

cSg|mc-Hotsauce eredeti hozzászólása:

They are slowly getting to the reports now.

:qr:

Yeah, I see the posts are definitely moderated more strictly now which is good, felt bad for the mods having to deal with that hot mess.

[Hatsune Miku]

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

...
... people in the Hogwarts Legacy forums are starting to openly post about killing trans people or saying they should be shot, ...

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

... feeling that its unsafe for trans people to post anything.

Elucidator eredeti hozzászólása:

Unsafe it is not. Getting insulted doesn't mean you're unsafe. ...

You don't know that, especially when people are NOT just getting insulted but violence is being promoted.

While it is unlikely that this would happen, the Wichita Kansas Call of Duty SWAT incident is NOT the ONLY example of someone attempting to track another down in the real world and then either in person, or via proxy (such as via the police) cause them harm. ...and in that case, someone actually did die from being shot... with lead bullets... from guns.

With a risk that high, is it really worth it to engage... even if you're providing actual game help?
I've gotten these kind of hateful responses while providing answers to problems someone was having with a game, in a hub before. The posts were cleaned up, but the moderators don't seem to really want to clean that sort of thing up.

We often say "irl", the acroynym for "in real life" to denote actions taken off of the internet, but this is somewhat of an irresponsible misnomer because the people on the internet are almost always real people somewhere in the real world too.

Pscht eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm sure you would love getting insulted every day and in unrelated-to-anything situations. 24/7/365

You make a great point. I've just addressed how it POTENTIALLY could be unsafe to leave such hate unchecked, HOWEVER... even if we simply accept that it's all virtual and supposedly none of it could possibly be unsafe... it's still a reprehensible behavior to constantly be dealing with even when providing game advice and just turns participation in the community into a really miserable experience that anyone who is both sane & doing self-reflection will go :

"This just isn't worth bothering with."

Thanks for posting that, that person was trying to make it about me. Its about the unchecked hate that is becoming the elephant in the room, steam already had a problem with literal hidden hate groups in recent years and has had a constant battle with far right hate groups since then.

This is becoming a more serious problem.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-02-01/how-racist-groups-use-online-video-games-to-spread-hate-big-take-podcast

https://www.wired.com/story/far-right-took-over-steam-discord/

[Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏]

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

Hate speech is getting out of control in multiple forums

Report the posts.
...

Yes it is.
And reporting the posts gets you this message :

"Abusing the post reporting system
This account appears to be abusing the reporting system. Please only report things that violate the Community Guidelines."

Now, moderators could dismiss reports that they believe are in error... but apparently they don't.
They COULD explain the issue... but they don't.

Does that message tell the user ANYTHING about what was supposedly reported in error? No.
Does it give a pretty clear encouragement to the user to stop reporting & just turn a blind eye to all of this nastiness :

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/search/?gidforum=882959061469934084&include_deleted=1&q=rapist
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/search/?gidforum=882959061469934084&include_deleted=1&q=pedo
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/search/?gidforum=882959061469934084&include_deleted=1&q=groomer

Yes.

Because that's what this community is about now.
Leaving all of that up. And taking issues that are still relevant down, like this one :
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/3135044721703449450/

Even chan boards are moderated better than this.

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

5ON90NGL03! eredeti hozzászólása:

Replying hatred with hatred multiplies hatred.
passive aggressive people everywhere.
moderation by one simple logical rule is needed more than ever.
pleasing everyone on the internet is impossible, but sacrifices have to be made.
but the question is who can and is willing to make the sacrifice.

Well, when people in the Hogwarts Legacy forums are starting to openly post about killing trans people or saying they should be shot, that level of disgusting posts needs to be dealt with wouldn't you say?

Apparently Valve no longer cares about being associated with congregations of threatening witch-hunters.
I guess their legal team doesn't see it as a big enough liability.

As a user, I do though.
There are better things for me to do with my time than to tell someone who didn't like a game in a hub that I'm subscribed to, how to get a refund, only to be smeared by them in response.

Same with casual discussion, & helping with game problems, and pretty much everything else.
I haven't found an alternative yet other than to just stop posting & return to isolation but...
That's gottta be healthier than this.

Qbert ⭐ eredeti hozzászólása:

That hub won't be moderated for a while because trolls open 3 threads everytime one is closed.

Honestly... while poor-quality and just plain bad automation exists... a lot of this is such obvious stuff that they absolutely SHOULD BE automating the scraping & reporting of some of it.

Aside from a few games with very very dark stories, when is there EVER a time in ANY of the hubs that it is appropriate for someone to be talking about pedophilia?

[Elin]

Steam is so full of hate and bigotry against us gay trans. I have had so many bullies give me those silly clown rewards, then when I asked them to stop a moderator banned me for a day.

[Hatsune Miku]

Elin eredeti hozzászólása:

Steam is so full of hate and bigotry against us gay trans. I have had so many bullies give me those silly clown rewards, then when I asked them to stop a moderator banned me for a day.

I've been on steam for over 18 years now, saw the forums change from being about the games over the years to political motivations and steadily to hate speech, the irony is that the games with [sexual content] are safer havens and better moderated than some others, and that is saying something, its bringing the wrong message and making the platform generally unsafe.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

Elin eredeti hozzászólása:

Steam is so full of hate and bigotry against us gay trans. I have had so many bullies give me those silly clown rewards, then when I asked them to stop a moderator banned me for a day.

I've been on steam for over 18 years now, saw the forums change from being about the games over the years to political motivations and steadily to hate speech, the irony is that the games with [sexual content] are safer havens and better moderated than some others, and that is saying something, its bringing the wrong message and making the platform generally unsafe.

Steam isn't unsafe in the slightest sense.

Those articles are nothing more than fear-mongering pieces trying to paint gaming and the internet as some alt-right heaven. Considering one is from a study by the ADL(who is infamous for blowing anything they deem 'hateful' out of proportion so much so to try and restrict the 1st amendment) and an independent group who's whole job is looking for that content which already heavily skews their view.

[Crawl]

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

... its bringing the wrong message and making the platform generally unsafe.

That's different than your earlier claim :

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

... feeling that its unsafe for trans people to post anything.

How about we just stick to "feeling of unsafe" rather than stating that it's actually unsafe.

Whether it's actually unsafe or not is debatable as there aren't (to my knowledge) any reports of people actually tracking others down through Steam and harming them. Now, I have found out about some doxxing that has gone on between members who are constantly fighting on this site and we might not hear everything that comes of these behaviors but the point is, you make a stronger claim and it's going to receive stronger scrutiny and the point that you're making will get lost as a result.

Let's stick to the facts to make such a case.
:01: People have been making messages promoting violence in the Steam Community.
:02: In other communities, not on Steam, there are verifiable cases of such behavior leading to real harm of others.
:03: This makes many users in the Steam community feel unsafe, regardless of whether they actually are unsafe or not.
:04: It's not even an unreasonable feeling for them to be having concerns over, considering that there is evidence of comparable interactions that on rare occasions did lead to harm elsewhere.

We're not quite to "it actually is dangerous" yet. ...yet. :spazdunno:

AnimeIsForIncels eredeti hozzászólása:

... People calling out transgenderism and it's attack on legitimate women's right is justified.

That is often completely irrelevant to games and while that's not a threatening thing to post, stating that anyone should get shot, stabbed, or otherwise harmed in some manner actually is.

Can you show me where Steam asks you for your sexual preferences and where they post that information for the public? Unless you are putting it out there you are just one of the millions of people on Steam so why would anyone be trying to track you down? If you truly thought there was a risk of harm to you would you really continue to expose yourself? I know the alphabet crew love attention and playing the victim so it may be hard to resist all the troll threads but the only reason they make them is to cast a wide net and see who they can get worked up, you all walk right into it every time. I promise no one cares who you bang or if you wear your moms heels. Stop engaging with them, its really not hard.

[Elucidator]

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

Thanks for posting that, that person was trying to make it about me.

How the heck did you come up with this conclusion? That's some very heavy strawman you seem to have about my post earlier.

They were replying to my post over here:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/7/3758852682829437216/?ctp=3#c3758852682832370263
In this post, all I said is that insults do not mean you're unsafe.

In the post before that one, I was much more general. It was intended for anyone who thinks the things you did; at least in the way you stated them.

I explained my thoughts and a couple of other things.
Its not about you.

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

steam already had a problem with literal ...

Red herring.
That doesn't mean it isn't something we should ignore, but it is for this thread and the ongoing question.


Also, I see what you did here:

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

...
... people in the Hogwarts Legacy forums are starting to openly post about killing trans people or saying they should be shot, ...

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

... feeling that its unsafe for trans people to post anything.

Elucidator eredeti hozzászólása:

Pscht eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm sure you would love getting insulted every day and in unrelated-to-anything situations. 24/7/365

Unsafe it is not. Getting insulted doesn't mean you're unsafe.

... I was replying to Pscht's comment with that specifically. I didn't mention the other two.

And to answer this:

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

You don't know that

Yes I do. Again, getting insulted doesn't mean you're unsafe.
You 'are' unsafe if you know for a fact violent action is going to be taken against you.
You feel unsafe, if someone is trying to threaten you.

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

especially when people are NOT just getting insulted but violence is being promoted.

That depends on what you're reading when you read that comment it seems.
"Cheese should go below the meat on a hamburger", doesn't to me sound like someone is promoting the act of putting cheese below the meat. It sounds like an opinion they have.
I haven't seen evidence of the other claim myself. (No I haven't visited the board.)
but I can easily see how when someone says "Should be done like this", some one thinks they are reading "Everyone, just do this!", which isn't what it says. So, to me the other claim sounds too wild.

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

While it is unlikely that this would happen, the Wichita Kansas Call of Duty SWAT incident is NOT the ONLY example of...

another red herring.
Same as before. It is a serious topic but avoids the ongoing question.

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

With a risk that high, is it really worth it to engage... even if you're providing actual game help?

The question was "Is it safe to post."
using the red herring as reasoning / pretending that is going to happen over at the hogwards legacy game hub is kinda weird.

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

I've gotten these kind of hateful responses while providing answers to problems someone was having with a game, in a hub before.

Different hub so clearly another red herring
(and a red herring about a red herring)

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

We often say "irl", the acroynym for "in real life" to denote actions taken off of the internet, but this is somewhat of an irresponsible misnomer because the people on the internet are almost always real people somewhere in the real world too.

True, but people say all kinds of stuff and not actually do them, which we all know.
"I'm going to throw my PC out of the window", for example, simply out of stress or due to problems or because of an opinion they have formed based on what they know.
Should we be worried when someone says that? No, because we know its not going to happen.

And before you say "But violence", that is the police's job.

Again, is it safe to post, yes. Is it safe to read on that gamehub? It should be safe...
assuming you're of the proper age to use the steam forums
and assuming you're not mentally ill and start having wild imaginations and become seriously scared.
Does it make you feel good? No, apparently it doesn't. So is it a good idea? No, it isn't, if you want to feel happy at least. There are plenty of articles talking about 'social media' making people depressed and such. Its not healthy.
But like, saying that you're not safe on the forums is taking it very far.

[Hatsune Miku]

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

... its bringing the wrong message and making the platform generally unsafe.

That's different than your earlier claim :

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

... feeling that its unsafe for trans people to post anything.

How about we just stick to "feeling of unsafe" rather than stating that it's actually unsafe.

Whether it's actually unsafe or not is debatable as there aren't (to my knowledge) any reports of people actually tracking others down through Steam and harming them. Now, I have found out about some doxxing that has gone on between members who are constantly fighting on this site and we might not hear everything that comes of these behaviors but the point is, you make a stronger claim and it's going to receive stronger scrutiny and the point that you're making will get lost as a result.

Let's stick to the facts to make such a case.
:01: People have been making messages promoting violence in the Steam Community.
:02: In other communities, not on Steam, there are verifiable cases of such behavior leading to real harm of others.
:03: This makes many users in the Steam community feel unsafe, regardless of whether they actually are unsafe or not.
:04: It's not even an unreasonable feeling for them to be having concerns over, considering that there is evidence of comparable interactions that on rare occasions did lead to harm elsewhere.

We're not quite to "it actually is dangerous" yet. ...yet. :spazdunno:

AnimeIsForIncels eredeti hozzászólása:

... People calling out transgenderism and it's attack on legitimate women's right is justified.

That is often completely irrelevant to games and while that's not a threatening thing to post, stating that anyone should get shot, stabbed, or otherwise harmed in some manner actually is.

Not to mention that freedom of speech, isn't freedom from consequences. And whilst, hate speech has "some" 1st amendment protection, it comes with limitations such as once that hate speech enters into the realms of criminality, threats of violence against a person or group, thus transgender community for example as a group etc then it is no longer a protected form of free speech.

As for acts on steam, twitch has a known history of violence used against streamers especially trans and gay streamers who have been swatted, some have even been killed which presents that this situation of hate needs to be addressed, twitches 'hate raids' are still a problem today but this isn't about twitch, it is about steam and their own hate group problems.

Everyone should feel safe in the video game community, and what is making it a problem are these hate groups which are entirely abusing the platform to do so, many are not even gamers.

[Hatsune Miku]

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

Elucidator eredeti hozzászólása:

...
But like, saying that you're not safe on the forums is taking it very far.

I agree and you're bringing that point to the wrong person.
That's the kind of bolder claim that OP made that I said that I disagree with.
I already my disapproval of that to an extent in my prior posts in this topic.

What I do agree with is that people may have reason to FEEL unsafe and that there may be some legitimate concerns here that Valve and Steam Support should be paying more attention to & taking more seriously than they currently are.

There is really a huge difference in between just posting hate speech, and violent or promoting violent comments that is when the line must be drawn. Steam has an age requirement of 13 to be able to create an account, what happens when minors start to see this level of hate speech and violent rhetoric? What happens when someone has questions about a game and goes to a forum and sees nothing but hate, what happens if they themselves are in a particular community such as the LGBTQIA community and see specific hate targeted at those groups?

[Hatsune Miku]

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

Tsukasa Hiiragi eredeti hozzászólása:

...
... whilst, hate speech has "some" 1st amendment protection, it comes with limitations such as once that hate speech enters into the realms of criminality, threats of violence against a person or group, thus transgender community for example as a group etc then it is no longer a protected form of free speech.
...

I don't think it usually goes that far, though it is plausible that there have been some posts like that (which maybe I just haven't seen yet).

I recently reported a review where someone said something about shooting at the company HQ and Steam Support simply dismissed that. They don't even care if people are encouraging violence on their own HQ anymore. That's apparently abuse of the reporting system.
That's just how BAD moderation has gotten.

Usually people are just promoting general violence or saying that certain demographics deserve it but nothing that would rise to the level of actionable by police, however... that's a REALLY REALLY bad look for the company that runs this service (or any company) and additionally it's not exactly conducive of constructive conversation about video games.

...and that's without even having to get into the nuances of the bag of works that is the Off Topic forums.

The thing is which is really sad for steam, once the worst that could happen in the steam forums was you being called a noob, now its racism and targeted bigotry due to simply politics being injected into the gaming community as a whole.

[Elucidator]

Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at 🃏 eredeti hozzászólása:

This topic is about the Steam Community, not just one hub that the OP is relaying their own personal experience with.
There's no red-herring here, you just misunderstood the scope of the topic.

That is possible yes. I can see where you're coming from if that is true. I specifically targetted one point though, one question.
And my own 'red herring' wasn't a red herring, but rather putting it in different context.
The problem is, when you use words we don't like, we see different things. When we change the context of the exact same thing, suddenly something else is revealed.
Rather than a threat, when someone says 'x should be y', I see an opinion they have. That was the point I was trying to make. Like, there have been a number of times someone said something like that on twitter and immediately got shunned for thinking this kind of thing; as if they are trying to make everyone agree with them or feel the same way.
That's not the case though
but they do appear to be seeking validation: looking for people who can see their point or agree with them,

Anyway, its fine. I'll reread the thread later.