Valve Is Getting Sued For Abusing Steam To Keep PC Game Prices High

[DiceDsx]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/popular-gaming-platform-accused-of-abusing-market-power-through-contracts

Others also got sued: Ubisoft, CDPR, kChamp Games, Rust and Devolver Digital.

Thoughts?

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Escrito originalmente por Togo:

GOG quit doing 30% around the beginning of 2018. They do less than 30%, but they don't have a set revenue share. Their revenue share is negotiated between GOG and the dev/pub, with more and more revenue going to the developers.

No they still have 30%, but yes they do allow negotiation for lower sale cut, but far as I know they don't do anywhere near 12%.

And something tells me there's a strong suggestion not to disclose what deal you got.
Seems quite shady.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por Togo:

GOG doesn't have 30%, they do less. When they did the 30% they were able to afford the fair price program, but now they can't because of paying more to the developers.

Are you talking about this?
https://web.archive.org/web/20190227011602/https://www.gog.com/news/conclusion_of_the_bfair_price_packageb_program

https://www.pcgamer.com/gog-is-ending-its-fair-price-package-so-it-can-give-devs-a-larger-cut/

If so this relate to ending support for regional fair price, in order to support negotiations, they never said they won't be doing 30% anymore.

[WhiteKnight]

https://www.scribd.com/document/505496523/COMPLAINT-filed-by-Wolfire-Games-against-Valve-Corporation-CASE-NO-2-21-CV-563?campaign=SkimbitLtd

If anyone is interested in reading it.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por Togo:

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Are you talking about this?
https://web.archive.org/web/20190227011602/https://www.gog.com/news/conclusion_of_the_bfair_price_packageb_program

https://www.pcgamer.com/gog-is-ending-its-fair-price-package-so-it-can-give-devs-a-larger-cut/

If so this relate to ending support for regional fair price, in order to support negotiations, they never said they won't be doing 30% anymore.

gog.com team talk about it here

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/conclusion_of_the_bfair_price_packageb_program_9b7f5

In actual numbers, on average, we give users back 12% of the game price from our own pocket. In some cases, this number can reach as high as 37%.

In the past, we were able to cover these extra costs from our cut and still turn a small profit. Unfortunately, this is not the case anymore. With an increasing share paid to developers, our cut gets smaller. However, we look at it, at the end of the day we are a store and need to make sure we sell games without a loss.

Looking at the financials for 2018 for GOG, they had a loss throughout the whole year.

Yea they talk about FPP if you click on the link I provided before, I assume you were confuse thinking they don't do 30% which is not correct as they still do, just that they allow negotiations to lowering it and that hasn't changed at all, only thing changed from back then is ending Support for consumers getting a fair regional price deal that what the FPP is about.

Escrito originalmente por WhiteKnight:

https://www.scribd.com/document/505496523/COMPLAINT-filed-by-Wolfire-Games-against-Valve-Corporation-CASE-NO-2-21-CV-563?campaign=SkimbitLtd

If anyone is interested in reading it.

Ah thanks, I give this a read now as I wanted to see more to it for better understanding, as sometimes blog news sites don't always give completed story until whole thing ends normally.

[WhiteKnight]

Escrito originalmente por Togo:

Escrito originalmente por Dr.Shadowds 🐉:

Yea they talk about FPP if you click on the link I provided before, I assume you were confuse thinking they don't do 30% which is not correct as they still do, just that they allow negotiations to lowering it and that hasn't changed at all, only thing changed from back then is ending Support for consumers getting a fair regional price deal that what the FPP is about.

No, they do not do 30% anymore, no developer is paying 30%, they are all paying less than 30% now. They stopped doing the 30% around beginning of 2018. Forgot to mention, since I have clients here at the data center that are game developers, one developer stated to me that when they saw the pricing for full services with GOG, it was a lot lower than 30%, though he wouldn't state the number because of NDA, and because they didn't need all the services they got even lower. So right out the gate GOG is offering less than 30% as the starting point.

On PC gaming ,of the digital distribution stores, Steam is the last store to charge 30%, all others charge less than 30%.

* Steam is the store that offers cash cards worldwide. Although some stores like Battle.net & Origin that has cash cards but they are not readily available atleast here in India (where i'm from. Not sure about the other's). Cash cards take 10-15%. Which Valve absorbs into their 30%.

* Steam has various regional currency support.

* Steam has various regional payment support. (for India alone there is various local bank support, Cash on Delivery & paytm). I'm sure many of the regions get their own payment support.

Other stores such has :-

** GOG only offer's USD & no local payment support.
** Uplay has Euro & no local payment support.
** Origin has INR but only credit card & paypal which is common all the stores mentioned.
** EGS has INR but only credit card & paypal.
** Battle,net only offer's USD.

* Steam has public API that gives out various data you can see it for yourself with sites such has :-

** https://steamdb.info/
** https://steamspy.com/
** https://steam250.com/
** https://www.gamedatacrunch.com/
** https://togeproductions.com/SteamScout/steamAPI.php?

There's more like them. I don't know how much resource they take from steam. Does GOG, EGS and various other's offers data to public like the one's mentioned above?.

* With the 30% cut. Valve has expanded to VR, supported linux to Proton & done various open-source projects and even more.

* Steam keys are widely used in sites such has Humble Bundle, Green Man Gaming, Fanatical, CDKeys, Voidu, Nuuvem & various other third-party sites. Which Valve does not get 30% cut.

Then they are steam features & their constant development for client & their store page.

[WhiteKnight]

All u say is "can be done without charging 30%" without providing any explanation. So there is no point in talking with you further.

How do you know Valve does not do much for VR and you mention Epic of all.

[Mythical Ostrich]

Another pointless lawsuit over nothing. Hopefully Valve counter sues them and makes them pay for all legal fees.

[Tito Shivan]

Escrito originalmente por Togo:

* Steam has various regional payment support. (for India alone there is various local bank support, Cash on Delivery & paytm). I'm sure many of the regions get their own payment support.

Can be done without taking 30%, also there are options they can take that doesn't include taking 30% for all transactons.

Epic couldn't with their 12% share:
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1091025939109199879

[Yasahi]

Escrito originalmente por Togo:

Escrito originalmente por Tito Shivan:

Epic couldn't with their 12% share:
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1091025939109199879

I worded it wrong, though I said all the words that were needed:

"Can be done without taking 30% for all transactions, also there are options that can be taken" is what I meant to say.

Valve doesn't take 30% on all transactions either. The split is 30/70 until $10 million sales, then 25/75 until $50 million sales and after that 20/80.

[Brian9824]

Escrito originalmente por Yasahi:

Escrito originalmente por Togo:

I worded it wrong, though I said all the words that were needed:

"Can be done without taking 30% for all transactions, also there are options that can be taken" is what I meant to say.

Valve doesn't take 30% on all transactions either. The split is 30/70 until $10 million sales, then 25/75 until $50 million sales and after that 20/80.

Not to mention valve takes 0% on sales outside of Steam that use the keys they generate despite being redeemed and activated on Steam. So that is really major

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por brian9824:

Escrito originalmente por Yasahi:

Valve doesn't take 30% on all transactions either. The split is 30/70 until $10 million sales, then 25/75 until $50 million sales and after that 20/80.

Not to mention valve takes 0% on sales outside of Steam that use the keys they generate despite being redeemed and activated on Steam. So that is really major

Of course the down side there is those sales don't count towards the tier caps. and not surprisingly, other stores tend to have their own systems. many puirchasing keys in bulk at discounted rates not unlike B&M stores.

[DiceDsx]

Escrito originalmente por Tito Shivan:

Escrito originalmente por Togo:

Can be done without taking 30%, also there are options they can take that doesn't include taking 30% for all transactons.

Epic couldn't with their 12% share:
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1091025939109199879

This makes me think: have we seen any positive effects of a lower revenue share on customer? So far, GOG had to terminate their fair price package and EGS doesn't have anything to show despite talking big about their share.

Also, the claim about Valve's price veto seems weird to me, because the only source of its existence seems a tweet from Tim Sweeney... and nothing else: no documents, mails, nothing. Just a simple tweet that says "Yep, Valve can do that, trust me".

But let's say prices are affected by a store's cut: wouldn't publishers with their own store kill any price competition by making their own offer automatically the best one? (E.g: Borderlands 3 could be priced €60 on Steam, €49.20 on Epic and €42 on 2K Store)

[WhiteKnight]

Escrito originalmente por DiceDsx:

Escrito originalmente por Tito Shivan:

Epic couldn't with their 12% share:
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1091025939109199879

This makes me think: have we seen any positive effects of a lower revenue share on customer? So far, GOG had to terminate their fair price package and EGS doesn't have anything to show despite talking big about their share.

Also, the claim about Valve's price veto seems weird to me, because the only source of its existence seems a tweet from Tim Sweeney... and nothing else: no documents, mails, nothing. Just a simple tweet that says "Yep, Valve can do that, trust me".

But let's say prices are affected by a store's cut: wouldn't publishers with their own store kill any price competition by making their own offer automatically the best one? (E.g: Borderlands 3 could be priced €60 on Steam, €49.20 on Epic and €42 on 2K Store)

Apart from EGS making huge loss and expecting to be profitable by 2023-2027. Low share just feel gimmick at least for us customers. The client feel almost same has past 2 years and their storepage resembles steam homepage. No shopping cart yet!!.

The trickle-down economics is just a myth. Devs/Pubs will never reduce the price just because they are getting low rev share. There is also rumor that games price will be increased to 80$.

Hey. Maybe in 10-30 years this trickle-down happens and we customers will finally get low price. depends when that happens.

[Chemical Man!]

Good they deserve it

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

Escrito originalmente por WhiteKnight:

Apart from EGS making huge loss and expecting to be profitable by 2023-2027. Low share just feel gimmick at least for us customers. The client feel almost same has past 2 years and their storepage resembles steam homepage. No shopping cart yet!!.

The trickle-down economics is just a myth. Devs/Pubs will never reduce the price just because they are getting low rev share. There is also rumor that games price will be increased to 80$.

Hey. Maybe in 10-30 years this trickle-down happens and we customers will finally get low price. depends when that happens.

EGS did make some changes, and improvements, but I can agree it doesn't feel like a lot changed in the last 2 years, and we're almost half way to the 3rd year. Far as I know EGS focus social aspect for this year since they removed the chat function, and status control such as wanting to appear offline, or busy several weeks ago. Everyone assume it's to integrate the partyapp into the chat, that EG bought the company out last year.


I don't doubt the 2nd part, because publishers NEVER been our friends, and they're people that looking to make profit just like any other marketing people that runs the company that calls the shots to funding game projects, or to cancel them really and that how it been for over 40 years, and people still don't realize this which is sad. Also the rumor of the games prices going up, that not a rumor, they're going up by $10 so instead of your standard $60, it will be $70, proof of this is on PS5, and Xbox series, as well the publishers such as Sony, Take-Two, and etc that trying to push this to be a standard for price increased, they got away with it in 2014, and they do it again. in due time PC will get hit with that price increased, if people remember at all lol.

Maybe we see in 10 - 30 years, and laugh saying oh yay because of lower sale cut we don't have to pay $100 for new game, and have to pay $90 instead what a great deal for lower sales cut, but again this really comes down to a lot of marking BS that comes from publishers, and many compaines, I can't say for sure when we're suppose to see this "lower price" that suppose to happen, which I doubt when comes to publishers.