Can't Find Metroid On Steam
I checked under the "Metroidvania" store tag but couldn't find Metroid anywhere on Steam.

Why is that? Could it maybe be that Steam can't sell Metroid?
...and if so, why can they use the term "Metroidvania" in their store tags?


:seewhatyoudid:
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Exibindo comentários 1630 de 44
Start_Running 16/dez./2020 às 8:57 
Escrito originalmente por Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at:
Escrito originalmente por Edifier:
Metroidvania is just a description on how to describe a game through the Tag system.

So it's fine to use it. The reason Metroid isn't on Steam is because Nintendo want to keep it on their own consoles.

You could literally come up with an actual description, like "platformer" or "explorer", instead of just making a portmanteau that just steals the names of 2 other games.


:seewhatyoudid:
Yeah, but thats whatt gamers, and game journalists settled on. You know, like Rogue-like. Or Souls-Like.


The term has been around for over a decade. It also speaks to a very specific sort of action, platform,, explorer, adventure game.

Lety's put it this way. The original Konami NES TMNT game, would fit all those tags. But no one would call it a MetroidVania.

Every Sonic game would also fit those tags, but no one would call it a MetroidVania.

Conker's Bad Fur Day would fit those tags. But no one would call that a MetroidVania.

Lazy or not... thats what gamers came up with. and its a valuable descriptor that conveys meaningful information. I mean even in the amount of characters used to represent the tag. Until the genre itself fractures enough to warrant new descriptors, its not gonna change, any time soon.



Escrito originalmente por Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at:
Escrito originalmente por Crazy Tiger:
The term exists longer than Steam is around. Just like Roguelike and such descriptive terms of gameplay mechanics.

I wasn't aware of that but also just "Rogue" wouldn't be a very copyrightable term.
Actually yes it is. As evidence that the Game's name is copyrighted. COpyright and Trademark work on surprisingly specific levels.

Escrito originalmente por feytharn:
'Metroidvania' isn't a Steam invention. As far as I know that 'Genre' has been used when the Castlevania games were still in their prime.

That was really poor planning on their part then, now wasn't it?

For a company that is basically synonymous with "cease & desist", you'd think they wouldn't have pioneered a term that allows people to use their copyrighted game's name & be unable to get Nintendo'd.
There is nothing in copyright law that disallows the use of a copyrighted name as a descriptor for something else. Because it is, surprisingly not being used as a proper Noun,, but rather as an adjective.




Escrito originalmente por davidb11:
Metrovania became a thing first off with our good friend Symphony of the Night.
That's what kickstarted the entire genre.
Yeah. Though to be fair Games Like Blaster master for the NES kinda defined the whole thing waaay earlier. Seriously. Go play that game. It basically has all the elements Though I suppose MetroidMaster doesn't carry the same ring. But even in the CastleVania series. you could say CastleVania 2: Simon's Quest was the first to really dabble in those design principles. It even Had RPG elements.



Escrito originalmente por Brockenstein:
Nintendo is concerned about people using their IP without permission. Using Metroidvania as a adjective doesn't really qualify as that.
The fact that the word Metroid, and the word Metroidvania are two very different words kinda ensures that.

Metroidvania, Souls-like, games that are so influential that genres are now named for them. It's a huge badge of honor. And no one is so mindlessly litigious that they'd be eager to sabotage that even if it were an option.
And until either of those generes diversifies enough to make the descriptors meaningless it will continue. Remember back when just about every FPS was a Doom-Clone, Then they had Build-CLones, but the genre became so diverse that those terms became litarally meaningless when it comes to to defing or describing..
nullable 16/dez./2020 às 9:27 
Eh, some terms have staying power, some don't. At this point I think Metroidvania will be around as long as people old enough to play those games make up a large enough population of gamers. And sometimes terms take on a life of their own anyway.

crunchyfrog 16/dez./2020 às 15:33 
Escrito originalmente por Kiddiec͕̤̱͋̿͑͠at:
Escrito originalmente por crunchyfrog:
This is an exercise in language.

Humans have a natural habit of shortening and simplifying words for communication purposes. There's also a quite common thing to make either portmanteaus (joining two words together to make a new one) or verbs from actual trade names too.

"I'm going to hoover the carpet"
"the kids are playing playstation (or nintendo)"
"have you tried Googling this?"
"try cleaning that with a Q-tip"

You see?
None of those mean you HAVE to use those particular things They're just umbrella terms but the brand names are so ubiquitous that people instantly know what you're talking about.

And the metroidvania is no different - it's simply better than saying "it's a game like metroid and like castlevania". That's it.

It does NOT mean that anyone who says it must sell the game. Reality does not work like that.

And so why Valve don't sell it is because it doesn't exist for PC and Nintendo don't make PC games. Simples.

I get what you're saying. It's kind of like how with all of the "cease & desist" letters that Nintendo sends out when you even post some fan-art, - that people instantly know what you're talking about if you say you got Nintendo'd.

I think it's really going to start catching on...


:hangingcontroller: :seewhatyoudid:
Precisely, that's a great example.

One example of this that made me laugh was when Brazil recently suffered snow for the first time in forever.. Now, as you probably already know, people in Brazil obviously know what snow is, but they didn't know how to build a snowman, so the results were .... amusing.

And what did their press name these poor efforts? Chernobyl Olafs.
AustrAlien2010 16/dez./2020 às 20:39 
Just a bit more confusing than the souls-tag, because nobody has any idea what that means, or what the precise requirements are, for something to be tagged as such.
Why not simply call it Metroid then? Why did Castlevania even had to be brought into the mix is beyond me, because you would not call the first Metroid, metroidvania either.

I wonder what they will do, if they bring the first Metroid on Steam, and than I am curious, if they would still tag that as metroidvania.
Última edição por AustrAlien2010; 16/dez./2020 às 21:03
Start_Running 17/dez./2020 às 5:44 
Escrito originalmente por AustrAlien2010:
Just a bit more confusing than the souls-tag, because nobody has any idea what that means, or what the precise requirements are, for something to be tagged as such.
Why not simply call it Metroid then? Why did Castlevania even had to be brought into the mix is beyond me, because you would not call the first Metroid, metroidvania either.

I wonder what they will do, if they bring the first Metroid on Steam, and than I am curious, if they would still tag that as metroidvania.

Metroid-Like, or Metroid CLone was a thing for a period of time. But the range of games it applied to was very limited and thus the term never quite saw high usage. Generally a lot of those games just fell under the ever nebulous Action-Adventure game.. Or just plain Adventure.

Then cam Symphony of the Night. It had all he back tracking, exploration and propgressive traversal abilities of a Metroid, but with a stronger focus on Action-Combat.

This created a astyle of game that mixed rthe strengths of both The action platformer and the action adventure. while mitigating the weaknesses.

Metroid was great at giving you a vast area to explore but the combat was always lacking, as was the pacing. Castlevania games had solid platforming and reflex testing action buut, tended to be mostly linear. (Though Castlevania 2 and 3 kinda shifted that formula up).

Granted I still contest that Blaster Master was the first True Metroidvania, which by all rights should make the term Blaster-Like but again, more people played any of the metroid games, and any of the Castlevania games than plaid the two Blaster Master games combined.

You can said Blaster Master and there's an eve chance people won't have a frame of reference for it. But you say Castlevania and most people know exactly what you're talking about (those medusa heads are pretty ingrained in people's memories). The same holds true for Metroid.

And yeah it probably would be tagged as Metroidvania because remember Tags are created and applied by....?
Brian9824 17/dez./2020 às 5:46 
Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:
Escrito originalmente por AustrAlien2010:
Just a bit more confusing than the souls-tag, because nobody has any idea what that means, or what the precise requirements are, for something to be tagged as such.
Why not simply call it Metroid then? Why did Castlevania even had to be brought into the mix is beyond me, because you would not call the first Metroid, metroidvania either.

I wonder what they will do, if they bring the first Metroid on Steam, and than I am curious, if they would still tag that as metroidvania.

Metroid-Like, or Metroid CLone was a thing for a period of time. But the range of games it applied to was very limited and thus the term never quite saw high usage. Generally a lot of those games just fell under the ever nebulous Action-Adventure game.. Or just plain Adventure.

Then cam Symphony of the Night. It had all he back tracking, exploration and propgressive traversal abilities of a Metroid, but with a stronger focus on Action-Combat.

This created a astyle of game that mixed rthe strengths of both The action platformer and the action adventure. while mitigating the weaknesses.

Metroid was great at giving you a vast area to explore but the combat was always lacking, as was the pacing. Castlevania games had solid platforming and reflex testing action buut, tended to be mostly linear. (Though Castlevania 2 and 3 kinda shifted that formula up).

Granted I still contest that Blaster Master was the first True Metroidvania, which by all rights should make the term Blaster-Like but again, more people played any of the metroid games, and any of the Castlevania games than plaid the two Blaster Master games combined.

You can said Blaster Master and there's an eve chance people won't have a frame of reference for it. But you say Castlevania and most people know exactly what you're talking about (those medusa heads are pretty ingrained in people's memories). The same holds true for Metroid.

And yeah it probably would be tagged as Metroidvania because remember Tags are created and applied by....?

Blaster Master :-) Heck I remember reading this back when I was a kid

https://www.amazon.com/Blaster-Master-Worlds-Power-Nine/dp/059043778X/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=blaster+master+book&qid=1608212749&sr=8-1
crunchyfrog 17/dez./2020 às 6:28 
Escrito originalmente por AustrAlien2010:
Just a bit more confusing than the souls-tag, because nobody has any idea what that means, or what the precise requirements are, for something to be tagged as such.
Why not simply call it Metroid then? Why did Castlevania even had to be brought into the mix is beyond me, because you would not call the first Metroid, metroidvania either.

I wonder what they will do, if they bring the first Metroid on Steam, and than I am curious, if they would still tag that as metroidvania.
The trick is with language is to not look at things too critically, because you have to remember the cardinal rule of language - communication and ease of it.

In short, people are lazy. So people WILL shortcut. And shortcuts WILL involve rules not being followed.

If you want to see a prime example of the mess of language, go and look no further than British place names. Mostly anglo-saxon, frank, and viking in origin, but they still have weird pronunciations that make bugger all sense.

Case in point - the next village on from where I live - Cowbit. How would you pronounce that?

Kub - bit.

Or how about a village a few on from me, Quadring?

Kway - dring.


So don't get hung up on language and wondering why a rule applies in one place but not in another.
Última edição por crunchyfrog; 17/dez./2020 às 6:29
Edifier 17/dez./2020 às 8:04 
Escrito originalmente por AustrAlien2010:
Just a bit more confusing than the souls-tag, because nobody has any idea what that means, or what the precise requirements are, for something to be tagged as such.
Why not simply call it Metroid then? Why did Castlevania even had to be brought into the mix is beyond me, because you would not call the first Metroid, metroidvania either.

I wonder what they will do, if they bring the first Metroid on Steam, and than I am curious, if they would still tag that as metroidvania.

Plenty of people have ideas on what the tag means. In fact it's rather easy to guess what the game will feature when it says Metroidvania.
Because most of those titles will share a lot of similar gameplay features.

Castlevania was brought into the mix because it shared a lot of similar stuff with Metroid or rather Super Metroid. It was with the Castlevania Symphony of the nights which kicked it off. You can look at that game and on Super Metroid.
Then compare it to other titles that have been given the same tag.

Tags are user generated so it's pretty likely people would tag it as Metroidvania because it'd show up in the tag then.
GuRu Asaki 17/dez./2020 às 8:59 
The only time a Term like Metroidvania Style Game Genres became a problem,
was when the Term Walking Dead, symbolizing all Zombie Movies, Games, & such, & such,
had been claimed as a Copywrite Title for the TV Show The Walking Dead...

They capitalized, & Marketed a Product based on Copywriting an Entire Genre...

To make things worst? They weren't even the ones who started it all,
George A. Romero did, & it should really be his Copywrite, but either way.

---------------------------------------------

It's like things like that should really just be a Term, or Genre,
& be left at that. People should not be able to Copywrite things like this.
Mad Scientist 17/dez./2020 às 16:34 
Escrito originalmente por GuRu Asaki:
The only time a Term like Metroidvania Style Game Genres became a problem,
was when the Term Walking Dead, symbolizing all Zombie Movies, Games, & such, & such,
had been claimed as a Copywrite Title for the TV Show The Walking Dead...

They capitalized, & Marketed a Product based on Copywriting an Entire Genre...

To make things worst? They weren't even the ones who started it all,
George A. Romero did, & it should really be his Copywrite, but either way.

---------------------------------------------

It's like things like that should really just be a Term, or Genre,
& be left at that. People should not be able to Copywrite things like this.
One, it's Copyright
Two, you can't copyright just words, you can however own a title such as "The Walking Dead" - you cannot copyright a Genre, that is like trying to copyright a word like "platformer" which is a descriptor and genre. Owning the title to a series is usually a Series Trademark as short words or phrases generally can't be subject to a copyright.

To be related to the OPs question, such thing can be used as a tag, since it's a descriptor of what it is similar to

Please try to stay more on the topic and less of your usual shot in the dark so to say.
Start_Running 17/dez./2020 às 17:02 
Escrito originalmente por davidb11:
Didn't James Cameron try to copyright the word Avatar?
I mean, I'm pretty sure it failed, but the point is, people will attempt to do crazy things in regards to copyright.
Yup. and sometimes they will do it justt to create cklick bait articles. Which ios basically free publicity.
WhiteKnight 17/dez./2020 às 17:35 
Escrito originalmente por davidb11:
Didn't James Cameron try to copyright the word Avatar?
I mean, I'm pretty sure it failed, but the point is, people will attempt to do crazy things in regards to copyright.

I found it dumb for someone to copy-right "Avatar" and let alone be successfully but google proved me wrong.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/james-cameron-wins-avatar-idea-642448
crunchyfrog 18/dez./2020 às 2:32 
Escrito originalmente por GuRu Asaki:
The only time a Term like Metroidvania Style Game Genres became a problem,
was when the Term Walking Dead, symbolizing all Zombie Movies, Games, & such, & such,
had been claimed as a Copywrite Title for the TV Show The Walking Dead...

They capitalized, & Marketed a Product based on Copywriting an Entire Genre...

To make things worst? They weren't even the ones who started it all,
George A. Romero did, & it should really be his Copywrite, but either way.

---------------------------------------------

It's like things like that should really just be a Term, or Genre,
& be left at that. People should not be able to Copywrite things like this.
THat's not at all how it works. You are so confused about pretty much everything there.

For a start, obviously COPYRIGHT. It does NOT and CANNOT cover terms or language.

So your argument is null immediately.

Furthermore, terms are language and as I pointed out earlier it's usually bugger all to do with who originated the thing in question.

You think Hoover invented the vacuum cleaner? Nope, and yet "hoovering the carpet" is still a de facto phrase.

You think Nintendo invented the video game or sony for that matter? Nope, and yet people will still say "oh, they're upstairs playing nintendo".

You're confusing two things that shouldn't be confused - language has NOTHING to do with copyright.

Furthermore, NOBODY has created those terms. You seem to claiming that the creators of the Walking Dead and so on are behind that example, and that's complete nonsense.

It just doesn't work like that at all.
ReBoot 18/dez./2020 às 4:35 
There's a simple way to tell "metrovania" isn't copyrightable. Nintendo's lawyers are absolutely rabid when it comes to shooting down stuff. The fact that that they haven't shot that one down is, in theory, explainable by Nintendo's copyright lawers show a heart for once, or, if you ain't high, by them being unable to shoot it down.
feytharn 18/dez./2020 às 4:53 
I am pretty sure 'Metroidvania' would be sued into oblivion if it was used as a game title - but it isn't.
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