Crowdfunding - Early access would it be considered the same thing?

[Karrion NightStalker]

Been having a discussion with a game developer that thought his kick starter campaign was legal.. Well long story short as of May 16th, 2016 No it's not legal, any business involved in crowd funding must give securities in exchange for money received, this means they must be given a share of the business creating the game or a share of the game itself. Also any site involved in such transactions must be registered with the SEC. Being as kick starter is not registered with the SEC and the campaigns there do not give securities in exchange for money those campaigns are actually Illegal. Now it would be a different story if the game was not being made for profit, i.e. final product had no subscription, no cash shop, no one time box sale and it's development and life is totally supported by donations with no mechanism that promotes a player to give a donation. Essentially in the game non-donating members would have the same access as donating members. (this is why shroud of the avatar actually switched to seed invest instead of kick starter).

That being said, could early access game sales be considered a type of crowdfunding? My belief is that it is in fact a form of crowdfunding and falls under the scope of the securities and exchange Title III rulings. If so since early access games are not finished products and securities are not exchanged and since steam is not registered with the SEC that both steam and the developer selling early access games are breaking the law.

Any lawyers around that can clear this up?

[Moderate my posterior.]

BlackSpawn の投稿を引用：

Errrr....its proof they they are misusing early access, using it as a crowdfunding vehicle....something that is not supposed to happen.

That is all.

This common misuse needs to be addressed.
Its not complicated.

Uh no, it really isn't. Not unless you are seeing magic writing that isn't there for all the people who aren't crazy.

[BlackSpawn]

Its a common statement by developers of early access titles, "we are forced to stop development because we didnt make enough revenue / sales to continue developing."
They should NOT rely of early access sales / revenue in order to develop their title to completion.
And that equates to using early access as a crowdfunding vehicle.
That is the issue.

[Moderate my posterior.]

Except he didn't say that at all. Did you even LEARN to read? The word sales doesn't even appear.

[BlackSpawn]

The word "sales" is in fact on the statement.
He thanks those who purchased the title, then goes on to say how they didnt collect enough money.

Another classic example is Spacebase.

Developer "Double Fine Productions" abandoned the title/transitioned to Full Release 1 year after Early Access launch because production costs exceeded game revenue:
http://www.polygon.com/2014/9/22/6830469/spacebase-df-9-double-fine-development-ending

Its a common thread in early access.
Misusing the platform as crowdfunding, then jumping ship after testing the market.

[Moderate my posterior.]

We both know full well that at that time there was no clause saying not to use EAG as crowdfunding when that title was launched and that Valve addressed it BECAUSE of that. Way to throw out another disingenuous response.

Do you write for Trump?

[BlackSpawn]

The reality of early access hasnt changed since that statement from Valve.
The scam of yore is the daily business practice of Steams early access of today, including misusing the platform as a crowdfunding vehicle.

The only thing that has changed is that there is a 2 wk refund policy that is ineffectual for a title that is supposed to evolve longitudinally, and that devs and publishers now have explicit permission from Valve to drop the alpha for the cashgrab and run.

Nothing disingenuous about independently verifiable facts.

[Yarbles]

Socialist Butterfly の投稿を引用：

We both know full well that at that time there was no clause saying not to use EAG as crowdfunding when that title was launched and that Valve addressed it BECAUSE of that. Way to throw out another disingenuous response.

Do you write for Trump?

I hear Bernie still has a chance! ...lol

[Moderate my posterior.]

BlackSpawn の投稿を引用：

The reality of early access hasnt changed since that statement from Valve.
The scam of yore is the daily business practice of Steams early access of today, including misusing the platform as a crowdfunding vehicle.

The only thing that has changed is that there is a 2 wk refund policy that is ineffectual for a title that is supposed to evolve longitudinally, and that devs and publishers now have explicit permission from Valve to drop the alpha for the cashgrab and run.

Nothing disingenuous about independently verifiable facts.

Even if you were presenting facts, which you are not, the manner in which a fact is present can still be disingenuous. Both your manner and conclusions are fabricated and not supported by the "facts" you claim.

[BlackSpawn]

Verifiable facts of the reality of the platform.
You can claim otherwise, but anybody can look it up on their own.

Its not a conclusion.
Its a description of how the platform is being used, as enunciated by the developers themselves.

There is no extrapolation, there is simply exposition.

[BlackSpawn]

Although I believe the most flagrant misuse and abuse of early access as a crowdfunding vehicle probably goes to Panzer Gaming Studios.

5 failed kickstarters; 1 early access game rushed to full release and 2 additional early access games on the Steam store atm.

https://www.gizorama.com/2015/feature/opinion/meet-panzer-gaming-studios-steams-weirdest-scam-artists

https://techraptor.net/content/notorious-steam-seller-returns-with-shady-steam-bundle

http://cliqist.com/2016/08/15/zearly-access-not-platform-crowdfunding/

[Moderate my posterior.]

BlackSpawn の投稿を引用：

Verifiable facts of the reality of the platform.
You can claim otherwise, but anybody can look it up on their own.

Its not a conclusion.
Its a description of how the platform is being used, as enunciated by the developers themselves.

There is no extrapolation, there is simply exposition.

Repeating nonsense still leaves it as nonsense.

[Start_Running]

BS. You're kind oif overlooking the key difference between FUnding and Purchasing. There's an overlap..

[Paratech2008]

The games are as is, nobody is forced to support the devs. Just don't buy early access games.

[Black Blade]

BlackSpawn の投稿を引用：

Example:

Dungeon of Gain:
"Hi! My name is Andrey, I am from Derfroids. I would like to thank to everyone who bought the game at the early stage of its development.
We did not manage to collect enough money to continue project development. But in spite of it the project was not forgotten. Now we are trying to get resources in order to continue the project in the first quarter of 2016. And then, though a little bit later, you will have the final version of the game. And we will be appreciative of you if you play it"

http://steamcommunity.com/gid/103582791437029080/announcements/detail/792987731030899143

That is not what early access is about.
The honesty is appreciated, but it is a misuse of the platform.

And looks like the title was rushed to full release.......to top it off.
Just transitioned to full release in name, without significant changes in content.....another common misuse / abuse of the platform.

As was all raedy stated it dose not say it has to do with sales, but with funding, that can come from more places
These is not an objective view, you are trying to push a biased view on the matter

BlackSpawn の投稿を引用：

Its a common statement by developers of early access titles, "we are forced to stop development because we didnt make enough revenue / sales to continue developing."
They should NOT rely of early access sales / revenue in order to develop their title to completion.
And that equates to using early access as a crowdfunding vehicle.
That is the issue.

We run out of funds, is a legit reason as any, again that dose not mean that its crowdfunding

And as you keep pushing it, lets take it from a deffrent view
Not enught sales dose not mean "we did not get engught from Steam to cover the cost" but that they did not sale as much as they where hoping for, or they used the funds in a bad way, or fell to some legal issue they had to pay for

There is many ways the funds can go, even if they had enught
One more is that maybe there funds that come from some investor went away as he did not see enught sales for him to think that the game will gain interest?

Also if we keep going abut stuff you made up, or assumed but are not objective, and honestly wrong
Valve did not say you cant use the Early Access system to help you fund the game, but they said that you do not need to relay on it, and if it happens that you do not have enough from it, you need to make sure you have some other way to get the funds

And before you go and shot "Crowd funding" you buy an Early Access game in its current state, the Dev can use the funds for updates later on, he can also use it for food, or for a mouse pad
Point is these is not crowd funding these is a game selling

[BlackSpawn]

BS are the misuses and abuses of EAG, including utilizing it as a crowdfunding vehicle....which goes against the stated goals and purpose of the platform.

Valve said: "Don’t launch in Early Access if you can’t afford to develop with very few or no sales."

Its pretty clear.
But this warning is not heeded.
And there is no consequence for failing to follow through with it.
That is the problem.