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Why do people hate YouTube reviewers like Angry Joe and Total Biscuit?
As the title says, why do people hate YouTube reviewers like Angry Joe and Total Biscuit?
I know that their fans can be annoying how they spam their videos, but why do people hate them so much? What is your opinion on this matter?



My opinion:

In a day and age where the so called "real" reviewers are bought out and too afraid to get their panties wet to give us a real review, these guys are more important than ever, I think.

People don't like AngryJoe because of how he sometimes blows his top and expresses some things in an uncivil way at times, and others don't like how TB is opinionated. But the thing is we need people like this today, sometimes we need people to tell it to us like it really is, without the sugar coating! Sometimes I get sick of seeing the "real" reviewers never crossing the line, never asking the hard questions because they don't want to lose their sponsors and being too afraid that they may offend someone.



Отредактировано Master Zone; 20 июл. 2014 г. в 2:22
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Сообщения 106120 из 135
Автор сообщения: Zefar
As for him caring about himself. Yea, that's something I've not really seen in his videos.

It becomes very evident if you follow the Co-optional and its predecessor the TGS Podcast long enough.

His reviews (i am lazy, i am going to call them reviews) tone it down, quite a bit, but it becomes so much more obvious in his opinion pieces.


Автор сообщения: Zefar
Автор сообщения: Ishan451
I've more memories of amazing games prior to the year 2000 than i am having after the year 2000, so for some reason i fail to see how expecting games to push the envelop on the graphic end of things is helping us to get better games. Matter of fact, it does the opposite. Harping on about how they aren't good enough, just means more resources are put into ultra realistic graphics nobody needs to enjoy a game.
Graphics isn't something TB is striving for in most games. Unless they just look really really bad.

No? The guy that stops his car in a racing game to drive up real close to a wall, to complain about its textures?

Are we talking about the same guy?

Автор сообщения: Zefar
But you do not sacrifice FPS for graphics. You just don't.

Every game i played, except for some 8bit game or something like that, usually improved in FPS when i reduced graphic options. So yeah, i am pretty sure you sacrifice FPS for graphics.

And if we, as gamers, wouldn't constantly demand "next gen graphics" i am sure we would get "last gen" graphics running at 60+ FPS.

Because, lets not forget... even next gen consoles are last gen compared to PC.

Автор сообщения: Zefar
All though not sure what this has to do with TB because most of the time it's the gameplay parts he's annoyed about.

A good portion of his complaints are about graphical fidelity. Take the recently released Dying Light and his port report. Barely any word spent on anything other than graphical settings and how well it runs on his beastly machine. No word about if it has the same or worse problems with a more average machine. The whole port report basically was just him going "this shouldn't happen on such an expensive pc as mine". That isn't really useful.

And you pointed out that one can draw comparison to a lesser PC, but it doesn't work like that. There's been enough PC games in history that ran poorly on Ultra but looked and played amazing on High.

And that is again where nitpicking about graphics comes into play again. If he would at least showcase the game on medium or high settings, but he doesn't.. he only cares about the highest possible settings and FPS, with good textures... and he dedicates over half an hour of video just to make comparison videos between how little the difference on SLI is.

He spends an obscene amount of time harping on graphics to the point where useful information like gameplay take a backseat.

Автор сообщения: Zefar
He's never really complained all that much about graphics in most games.

You must have seen different videos than i have.

Автор сообщения: Zefar
TB is trying to get games to have better options, more features and generally be better and this is supposedly bad for the industry? What?

I wholly disagree with him doing that, sans the occasional mention of the lack of Colorblind options.
TotalBiscuit isn't just trying to "review" games; he's trying to create an aesthetic standard - because ultimately he views making a game as an artistic endeavor (he has said this several times). This leads him protesting all manner of trivialities that have little to do with the gameplay, but must be mentioned because of the aesthetic standard that he is attempting to advocate.

Take Deus Ex: The Fall. Yes, it's a s----y game in some ways (see my review on Steam), but for an iOS port it works quite well. But TB doesn't even consider that. In his "Let's NOT play..." video, he refuses to consider the fact that it is an iOS port when judging the game's value. Because "it is being marketed as being for PC, therefore it is a PC game and subject to the standards that all PC games are judged by..." (rough quote). The point isn't Deux Ex:The Fall. It's that, right there, TB admits that he has a standard that admits no qualifying factors. That's the right standard to have if you're an "artist" (no compromise, EVER!), but a serious hindrance on people who are just looking for entertainment. Which, ultimately, is what the video game industry does: it makes entertainment for profit. The minute you add profit into the equation, the whole "artistic integrity" thing goes out the window. Game companies make games for the money. They add features because they think the game will sell better. They don't include features because there will be no effect on the profit margin. Games can be artistic, and games can be art; but to demand that of the entire industry is failing to see the gaming industry as an industry.

As far as AngryJoe is concerned, he is looking for a good gaming experience (from his Fable III video: "What makes a game is gameplay; is it fun to play, or is it a boring chore?"). You can agree with what he thinks provides a good experience, or not, but it is pretty clear what he values in games. That's why, to me, he is more informative about the games he reviews, even if I don't agree with him sometimes (Saints Row: The Third). The fact that his reviews are entertaining are an added bonus.
Отредактировано AbedsBrother; 30 янв. 2015 г. в 10:21
Автор сообщения: Ishan451
Автор сообщения: Zefar
As for him caring about himself. Yea, that's something I've not really seen in his videos.

It becomes very evident if you follow the Co-optional and its predecessor the TGS Podcast long enough.

His reviews (i am lazy, i am going to call them reviews) tone it down, quite a bit, but it becomes so much more obvious in his opinion pieces.


Автор сообщения: Zefar

Graphics isn't something TB is striving for in most games. Unless they just look really really bad.

No? The guy that stops his car in a racing game to drive up real close to a wall, to complain about its textures?

Are we talking about the same guy?

Автор сообщения: Zefar
But you do not sacrifice FPS for graphics. You just don't.

Every game i played, except for some 8bit game or something like that, usually improved in FPS when i reduced graphic options. So yeah, i am pretty sure you sacrifice FPS for graphics.

And if we, as gamers, wouldn't constantly demand "next gen graphics" i am sure we would get "last gen" graphics running at 60+ FPS.

Because, lets not forget... even next gen consoles are last gen compared to PC.

Автор сообщения: Zefar
All though not sure what this has to do with TB because most of the time it's the gameplay parts he's annoyed about.

A good portion of his complaints are about graphical fidelity. Take the recently released Dying Light and his port report. Barely any word spent on anything other than graphical settings and how well it runs on his beastly machine. No word about if it has the same or worse problems with a more average machine. The whole port report basically was just him going "this shouldn't happen on such an expensive pc as mine". That isn't really useful.

And you pointed out that one can draw comparison to a lesser PC, but it doesn't work like that. There's been enough PC games in history that ran poorly on Ultra but looked and played amazing on High.

And that is again where nitpicking about graphics comes into play again. If he would at least showcase the game on medium or high settings, but he doesn't.. he only cares about the highest possible settings and FPS, with good textures... and he dedicates over half an hour of video just to make comparison videos between how little the difference on SLI is.

He spends an obscene amount of time harping on graphics to the point where useful information like gameplay take a backseat.

Автор сообщения: Zefar
He's never really complained all that much about graphics in most games.

You must have seen different videos than i have.

Автор сообщения: Zefar
TB is trying to get games to have better options, more features and generally be better and this is supposedly bad for the industry? What?

I wholly disagree with him doing that, sans the occasional mention of the lack of Colorblind options.

I completely agree. You covered a lot of the reasons why I cannot stand Total Biscuit. Don't get me wrong. I think 60 FPS is great. But it is not as important as that guy makes it out to be. I am not going to act like a game having a little less than 60 FPS is going to ruin a game for me. That is why I think TB has a stick rammed up his ass. And yes, I think his extreme views have poisoned a lot of people's brains and all he has done has created a sea of drooling zombies that whine and complain about frame rates at every turn. It has gotten ridiculous. And he takes a lot of the blame for that.
^^ This is true. There is so much more to reviewing games than whether or not they run at 60 fps (which is ultimately a kind of arbitrary threshold - is 55 or 56 fps so bad in comparison?) and he focuses a lot on graphics - it's a visual medium but there is so much more to games than that. His videos are very dry and, honestly kinda boring. There's a reason most people don't do first impressions. Because a quick snapshot of the start of the game isnot enough to judge it completely and TB clearly either doesn't have the time or the effort to actually play games before judging them on something other than the settings menu.

Also I think TB contributes to the warped view some pc gamers have, that expect more with each game but also think their machines should run everything on max, and if they can't then they don't allow themselves to enjoy the game for what it is becuse they can't get past this fact. The kind of gamer who is more about ♥♥♥♥ waving than actually the games themselves.
I do sometimes watch Angry Joe, but not so much anymore. Never really watched Total Biscuit (Not because I dislike him or something, but just never really bothered to). It's just, their reviews are their opinions on the game. I agree with some of them, but you need to play the game yourself to form an opinion.
Like, Joe praised the Last of Us, but when I played it on my PS4 I didn't enjoy it that much.
Автор сообщения: Ishan451

It becomes very evident if you follow the Co-optional and its predecessor the TGS Podcast long enough.

His reviews (i am lazy, i am going to call them reviews) tone it down, quite a bit, but it becomes so much more obvious in his opinion pieces.
I watch those Podcast quite a bit but I still don't see this. He's actually gone out of his way to stop taking any sort of items from any company out there. Closing down his Mailbox for example.
If he only cared about himself he wouldn't have done that. He always disclose any sort of agreement he has signed. He wouldn't do that if he only cared about himself.


Автор сообщения: Ishan451
No? The guy that stops his car in a racing game to drive up real close to a wall, to complain about its textures?

Are we talking about the same guy?
Well it's 2014-2015 and when you've maxed the game out it could look better but game companies are a bit lazy in that part.

While he does this once in a while it's never been the whole part of the review. Unless it's a Port review.

Автор сообщения: Ishan451
Every game i played, except for some 8bit game or something like that, usually improved in FPS when i reduced graphic options. So yeah, i am pretty sure you sacrifice FPS for graphics.

And if we, as gamers, wouldn't constantly demand "next gen graphics" i am sure we would get "last gen" graphics running at 60+ FPS.

Because, lets not forget... even next gen consoles are last gen compared to PC.

What I meant was. As a Game developer you should not lower the FPS to increase the graphical detail level of your game. You should aim for 60 FPS and still have good graphics.


Автор сообщения: Ishan451
A good portion of his complaints are about graphical fidelity. Take the recently released Dying Light and his port report. Barely any word spent on anything other than graphical settings and how well it runs on his beastly machine. No word about if it has the same or worse problems with a more average machine. The whole port report basically was just him going "this shouldn't happen on such an expensive pc as mine". That isn't really useful.
That video was specifically about it's port and if it was any good. It's not a WTF video so this one focus far more on graphics, FPS, menus and all that.

Also he had quite a bit of issues with the game and it's frame rate.

Автор сообщения: Ishan451
And you pointed out that one can draw comparison to a lesser PC, but it doesn't work like that. There's been enough PC games in history that ran poorly on Ultra but looked and played amazing on High.

And that is again where nitpicking about graphics comes into play again. If he would at least showcase the game on medium or high settings, but he doesn't.. he only cares about the highest possible settings and FPS, with good textures... and he dedicates over half an hour of video just to make comparison videos between how little the difference on SLI is.

I don't see how this is a problem. Also when he does a video to do a report on a Port of a game he's going to want to max it out to show if it runs well or not on his system.
Obviously he's going to be talking a lot about the graphical level of the game.
SLI support should also be something that should be supported well these days. It's not even new.

When he does WTF videos it's more about the gameplay part.

Автор сообщения: Ishan451
He spends an obscene amount of time harping on graphics to the point where useful information like gameplay take a backseat.
Only when he's having major problem with it or if it's about a port report. In WTF videos he doesn't bring it up all that much. Or if it's about a HD port. Where one would expect higher detail.


Автор сообщения: Ishan451
You must have seen different videos than i have.
You seems to base everything of the Port report video so far.



Автор сообщения: abedsbrother
Take Deus Ex: The Fall. Yes, it's a s----y game in some ways (see my review on Steam), but for an iOS port it works quite well. But TB doesn't even consider that. In his "Let's NOT play..." video, he refuses to consider the fact that it is an iOS port when judging the game's value. Because "it is being marketed as being for PC, therefore it is a PC game and subject to the standards that all PC games are judged by..." (rough quote).
Look, if it's on iOS and you do a review on iOS you can judge it on iOS standards.
BUT when it comes to PC and is complete and utter crap it will get flack for it. You just don't get a free pass with this sort of thing.

When you put it on PC some higher standards should be aimed for. It's actually hilarious watching the port of it. There is no defending the port which was also a HD port.
Автор сообщения: Zefar


Автор сообщения: abedsbrother
Take Deus Ex: The Fall. Yes, it's a s----y game in some ways (see my review on Steam), but for an iOS port it works quite well. But TB doesn't even consider that. In his "Let's NOT play..." video, he refuses to consider the fact that it is an iOS port when judging the game's value. Because "it is being marketed as being for PC, therefore it is a PC game and subject to the standards that all PC games are judged by..." (rough quote).
Look, if it's on iOS and you do a review on iOS you can judge it on iOS standards.
BUT when it comes to PC and is complete and utter crap it will get flack for it. You just don't get a free pass with this sort of thing.

When you put it on PC some higher standards should be aimed for. It's actually hilarious watching the port of it. There is no defending the port which was also a HD port.

Anything can be considered garbage or nonsense when decontextualized enough. If PC is going to have "higher standards," then let's demand HD remakes of all the old games (like Neverwinter Nights 1 & 2), and refuse to play them until that happens. Because we're on PC, and we have higher standards.

And btw DE:TF was ported just fine. Hardly crap on a technical level. Now voice acting, level size & design, and texture quality was very disappointing. But the game itself runs well.
I trust TB's opinions. He actually knows what the hell he's talking about, and I've yet to really disagree with what he says.
Автор сообщения: Zefar
If he only cared about himself he wouldn't have done that. He always disclose any sort of agreement he has signed. He wouldn't do that if he only cared about himself.

And he does that in order to be "holier than thou" and to be able to point out how noble and uncompromising he is, except when he isn't.. like all the brand deals he did, and going to casting and running an esport team for which he doesn't fail to promote whenever he gets away with it.

It is by, the by, now required, by law, to disclose those deals, or at least that is how i understand it. So its not like he did that out of the goodness of his heart, he just got ahead of it, pretending to be this beacon in a time of corruption to garner peoples good will.

If he didn't do that for himself, he wouldn't bring it up as much as he does, but yet he brings it up at every chance he gets to point out how high his standards are and how they are higher than other peoples standards.

He makes enough money, he doesn't need people to send him money. Heck, he does so much money he is able to sponsor a .. i believe 6 man, esport team. Not to mention Zook, or however he spelled himself, that does all the UI and such for him.

So really he doesn't seem to need it, and yet.. in the last podcast they started with Ads of their own (and gosh were they terrible, but hey he is TB and he can do everything, even write Ads!).

Автор сообщения: Zefar
Автор сообщения: Ishan451
No? The guy that stops his car in a racing game to drive up real close to a wall, to complain about its textures?

Are we talking about the same guy?
Well it's 2014-2015 and when you've maxed the game out it could look better but game companies are a bit lazy in that part.

While he does this once in a while it's never been the whole part of the review. Unless it's a Port review.

He does it on every chance he can get away with it, without looking like a complete idiot, for complaining about 8 and 16bit graphics. And most of his reviews are at least 1/3rd focused on option menus and graphics.

Автор сообщения: Zefar
What I meant was. As a Game developer you should not lower the FPS to increase the graphical detail level of your game. You should aim for 60 FPS and still have good graphics.

And if they could do it, i am sure they would. But instead, because people like TB are licking the walls, as he calls it, to check if the textures of a wall is top notch, they focus on Textures and Lightshafts and whatnot, instead of the rest. Because be damn sure somewhere someone is complaining about nothing but that, as if that was the only thing that mattered... Textures and FPS.

Автор сообщения: Zefar
Also he had quite a bit of issues with the game [Dying Light] and it's frame rate.

And it is quite pointless for customers. If he would have included more than just the highest settings and problems would have persisted, then maybe there was a point, but as it was it was just a glorified tech demo for his PC and the game not meeting his quite lofty standards.

He could have been like "the game never drops below 60 on high, or medium", but no, he rather wasted about half an hour or so to complain about SLI.

Oh and by the way.. Dying Light isn't really a port, not in the sense of any game that has been released in recent years being a port.

That video was him doing a PSA about the tech of the game, without even for a moment to consider how the game could run on different settings but the highest.

Did we really need to sit there and watch him go on and on about how little of a difference the Distance of View made, after he established that its not an issue to turn it down?


Автор сообщения: Zefar
When he does WTF videos it's more about the gameplay part.

Except when it isn't. Like that NFS game where the developer made a release about the fact that the game is locked to 30fps and that they ask people not to mod that out, because it will break the game. And TB then goes and makes WTF is about the game going: "i am TB and i modded the game to 60fps, because i can! Screw the dev and him telling me its broken, i am gonna complain about how broken this POS is for the next 30 minutes, because i messed around with it and as PC Masterrace Spokesperson its my right to mess with PC games, because we are PC gamers and we mess with our stuff"

Автор сообщения: Zefar
You seems to base everything of the Port report video so far.

Not really, i am just to lazy to go and watch some more WTF just to bring them up, without risking that its that one video where he doesn't do it.

Like for example, i want to point to his Crisis 3 WTF as example, where he went on to complain that the gunmodels are to big, because he messed with the settings of the game beyond what the options menu allowed him to do, and stuff like that.

Автор сообщения: Zefar
Автор сообщения: abedsbrother
Take Deus Ex: The Fall. Yes, it's a s----y game in some ways (see my review on Steam), but for an iOS port it works quite well. But TB doesn't even consider that. In his "Let's NOT play..." video, he refuses to consider the fact that it is an iOS port when judging the game's value. Because "it is being marketed as being for PC, therefore it is a PC game and subject to the standards that all PC games are judged by..." (rough quote).
Look, if it's on iOS and you do a review on iOS you can judge it on iOS standards.
BUT when it comes to PC and is complete and utter crap it will get flack for it. You just don't get a free pass with this sort of thing.

When you put it on PC some higher standards should be aimed for. It's actually hilarious watching the port of it. There is no defending the port which was also a HD port.

And while i concur with the Higher Standards, especially for iOS ports (which i believe should stay on their iOS devices), that particular case, he seemed to expect a complete redesign of the game, where they somehow programmed an entirely different game, that just happened to follow the same storyline (possibly).


I mean i get that its iOS and iOS ports are the real cancer, now after we made our peace with only getting the scraps from the console table, reminding us that there are worse things that could be ported to PC... but that doesn't change the fact that an iOS game will always be an iOS game, port or not. Expecting it to work entirely different, just because its on PC is just silly. Then its no longer a port, but a new game.
Отредактировано Ishan451; 30 янв. 2015 г. в 14:59
2 years later, we are still at this ah?
Автор сообщения: Ishan451
... but that doesn't change the fact that an iOS game will always be an iOS game, port or not. Expecting it to work entirely different, just because its on PC is just silly. Then its no longer a port, but a new game.
Exactly.
Автор сообщения: Maya
2 years later, we are still at this ah?
What else can we do while waiting for Half-Life 3? jk
Отредактировано AbedsBrother; 30 янв. 2015 г. в 15:41
I honestly like Both TB and AngryJoe ...
What i dont like is Sh1t like pewdiepie ...
Автор сообщения: 楪 いのり
I honestly like Both TB and AngryJoe ...
What i dont like is Sh1t like pewdiepie ...

[Joker voice] And here... we... go...
Автор сообщения: abedsbrother
Автор сообщения: 楪 いのり
I honestly like Both TB and AngryJoe ...
What i dont like is Sh1t like pewdiepie ...

[Joker voice] And here... we... go...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSLlZh9yelk
TB is kinda pointless. He's not as entertaining as the likes of Angry Joe, and his technical breakdown is woefully amateurish compared to digital foundry. He seems to completely ignore that some people have mid or low end pcs and are perfectly willing to sacrifice graphical fidelity for smoothness, or, well, just running the game.
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