Gamepad or Mouse? Which do you prefer?

[][SG][ Greg]

Do you prefer a gamepad, or a mouse? Leave what you like more in the comments. If you like Keyboard/Mouse for certain game categories (IE, FPS), then say: I like keyboard and mouse for FPS's, but gamepads for platformers.
Or, you dont feel like typing that? Just leave what you generally prefer more, if that suits you.

[Fox]

BurntByHellfire の投稿を引用：

fox, im strictly a PC user now.. didnt see anything in the next gen consoles that looked to be worth the cost when i could get an equivelant PC for the cost of the new consoles.. and be able to play games like sims 3, civilization, and have all the third party modifications for the games i play.. but, im not giving up using a controller for the reasons stated, theres so much you just CANT do with the mouse being your sole analog device and every other button either being full on, or off.. and though i dont have carpal tunnel, using WASD for more than a few minutes will give me a pain in the back of the hand... its just not comfortable or ergonomic

Why not ? The only thing I heavily disagreed was "PC users despise controller users", something I don't do, because I couldn't care less. Don't know about the others, but no one I personnally know on steam do this...
And I'm not even against relearning to use a controller.
I just hope no misunderstanding had been created.

[Sparkling Forklift]

Mouse/Keyboard for everything but hack and slash/beat 'em ups. They feel awkward on a keyboard, but everything else seems fine on KB + M.

[Wheatley Cria]

kb+m for genuine pc games like fps,rts,turn based strategy(xcom eu is better with controller),and for games that require lots of buttons
controler for most games tha have been launched for consoles, like assassins creed and stuff
slower fps are better with controllers

[crunchyfrog]

Fox の投稿を引用：

BurntByHellfire の投稿を引用：

fox, im strictly a PC user now.. didnt see anything in the next gen consoles that looked to be worth the cost when i could get an equivelant PC for the cost of the new consoles.. and be able to play games like sims 3, civilization, and have all the third party modifications for the games i play.. but, im not giving up using a controller for the reasons stated, theres so much you just CANT do with the mouse being your sole analog device and every other button either being full on, or off.. and though i dont have carpal tunnel, using WASD for more than a few minutes will give me a pain in the back of the hand... its just not comfortable or ergonomic

Why not ? The only thing I heavily disagreed was "PC users despise controller users", something I don't do, because I couldn't care less. Don't know about the others, but no one I personnally know on steam do this...
And I'm not even against relearning to use a controller.
I just hope no misunderstanding had been created.

In fairness, I think it was fairly obvious he wasn't speaking of ALL PC users, but just some (even though that wasn't precisely specified).

All in all, they were good points, as were your comments :)

As I've said before, I use both, but then I use a hell of a lot of platforms and always have.

The only one binding rule I stick by is that racing games are utter ♥♥♥♥ when played on a keyboard.

[Ulfrinn]

i will admit this.. i play sims 3, civilization 5 and similar games with a mouse and keyboard.. but realistically these games have very little keyboard use, and a lot of them have to depend on placement of different items, clicking on units, etc.. they are basically games that can be done solely with the mouse

my biggest issue isnt even with the mouse, its with the keyboard, no analog controlls what so ever and you have to cram 4 of your fingers on the WASD+shift just for movement, take your finger off moving forward to tap R to reload usually, in reguards to a FPS, where on a controller i can be running my rear end off while being shot at and still hit that reload button as i hide behind an object (playing battlefield 4 demo ive had to do this a few times, where i suddenly find myself in the open with a very angry tank looking at me)

i tried a new concept though, which uses a playstation 3 navigation controller in the left hand, replacing the keyboard, giving me that analog movement and well, i could only do so much in reguards to button mapping with some games, as i can EASILY set up some very advanced control configurations with pinnacle profiler or xpadder, its difficult to be able to do similar things to the mouse

in the end although im VERY familiar with a controller, and very familiar with a mouse, this control scheme was still very foreign to me, didnt quite feel "right", and i could only actively map half of this setup.. that being said, it was still akward to control vehicles or fly aircraft with this setup, and id rather just go back to using my sixaxis controller

on that note, i feel the steam controller will be unsuccessful, because if using a controller on one hand and a mouse in the other, two devices im 100% familiar with and they just cant feel right together.. how would a mouse/keyboard user ever feel right on the steam controller, using their thumbers to control view, and how will a controller user get used to touchpads?

so in the end... familiarity has a lot to do with what people are best with.. a mouse/keyboard user will almost always be the most horrible gamer using a controller, and although controller users can more quickly adapt to to mouse/keyboard than the other way around, theres just not much incentive in actually switching if the familiarity is already there on a controller

so my recommendation to game developers is make provisions for both.. ive PROVEN that even arma 3, which everyone who plays it claims is impossible to map to a controller, can effectively, intuitively, and intelligently be mapped to a controller.. so game developers should just make provisions for both control interfaces by having someone like me whos familiar with and prefer controllers to develope a good controller based control scheme to allow either input device to be used on any game

[crunchyfrog]

Nicely put, BurntByHellfire - I always like to hear different experiences about gameplay and controllers.

Another reason I use many different control methods is that I have some disability, and oft times I get a lot of wrist and/or hand pain, predominantly in my left hand. I've tried using the method you suggested - that of controller in one hand and mouse in the other, and I found that I soon got used to the idea (it wasn't too dissimilar to the Move or Wiimote, to be frank).

I certainly agree that when it comes to strategy or MMOs, then controller isn't usually the way. However, because of the inevitably long play sessions these types of game often lead to, I end up having to play one-handed. That isn't a problem for most games, especially MMOs, but for the occasional one that cannot be worked around, I use a couple of different one-handed controllers which are pretty awesome. But that's another story.

I also agree with your comments about Arma 3 - anyone who says you CAN'T effectively play with a controller simply is blinkered or doesn't know what they're talking about. Due to the plethora of options we have available, we can use most controllers on ANY device - I even use mouse and keyboard in a roundabout fashion on the PS3, thanks to another miraculous little device.

[Ulfrinn]

crunchyfrog, look up the playstation navigation controller, its a single handed controller with an analog thumbstick, with a d-pad, PS button, two face buttons, and L1, L2 analog trigger, and L3 clickable thumbstick.. it works with the motioninjoy drivers and only cost me $12 off amazon.. its a perfect single handed controller if youre interested

problem is when i get into a really advanced control scheme i map things to controller buttons that i just have no way to map with a mouse.. for example, in arma 3, the square button on my PS3 controller reloads the gun.. simple, right? well while holding the square button it initiates a mode switch, so that while the reload button is held, up/down on the dpad switches weapon back, and forward, left and right switch between the handgun and launcher, and tapping the throw button while holding that reload button will change the throw item.. i have almost 10 functions all mapped as sub-functions under that single square button

downside to using the controller in just one hand is i cant do that level of mapping with pinnacle or xpadder on a mouse which makes it much more difficult to create a good, functioning control scheme for as opposed to a complete controller

[Fox]

BurntByHellfire の投稿を引用：

[...]
so in the end... familiarity has a lot to do with what people are best with.. a mouse/keyboard user will almost always be the most horrible gamer using a controller, and although controller users can more quickly adapt to to mouse/keyboard than the other way around, theres just not much incentive in actually switching if the familiarity is already there on a controller

so my recommendation to game developers is make provisions for both.. ive PROVEN that even arma 3, which everyone who plays it claims is impossible to map to a controller, can effectively, intuitively, and intelligently be mapped to a controller.. so game developers should just make provisions for both control interfaces by having someone like me whos familiar with and prefer controllers to develope a good controller based control scheme to allow either input device to be used on any game

This should be the nice and one-sentence-fits-all conclusion. I couldn't say it better.
I'll guess it'd be a victory once every single control scheme can live in peace with each other. Still a long way, but hey, if I can, who can't ?
And yes, familiarity plays a lot. So, it'd be best, in fact, to try all sorts of schemes, as to having a baggage, and use the one which is most adapted to your skills and your game.
Frequent switching, fast learning, no more problems.

EDIT : wrong choice of words.

[crunchyfrog]

BurntByHellfire の投稿を引用：

crunchyfrog, look up the playstation navigation controller, its a single handed controller with an analog thumbstick, with a d-pad, PS button, two face buttons, and L1, L2 analog trigger, and L3 clickable thumbstick.. it works with the motioninjoy drivers and only cost me $12 off amazon.. its a perfect single handed controller if youre interested

problem is when i get into a really advanced control scheme i map things to controller buttons that i just have no way to map with a mouse.. for example, in arma 3, the square button on my PS3 controller reloads the gun.. simple, right? well while holding the square button it initiates a mode switch, so that while the reload button is held, up/down on the dpad switches weapon back, and forward, left and right switch between the handgun and launcher, and tapping the throw button while holding that reload button will change the throw item.. i have almost 10 functions all mapped as sub-functions under that single square button

downside to using the controller in just one hand is i cant do that level of mapping with pinnacle or xpadder on a mouse which makes it much more difficult to create a good, functioning control scheme for as opposed to a complete controller

Thanks but I have a couple of better ones than that. I appreciate the offer though :)

I hear you about the difficulties about using the combination of mouse and controller - I certainly hope that even if this Valve controller turns out to be not much good, that is widens the avenues even further, giving us more choices and accessibility in future - and that surely can't be a bad thing

[Ulfrinn]

let me just say this.. i began gaming on ATARI.. not any of the later ones, but the atari that was out before the NES, ive owned a couple different ataris, NES, SNES, genesis, N64, PSX, PS2, xbox, xbox 360, gamecube, and wii.. ive played sims and civilization on PC, and before that my last PC game was the original doom when it was new

nearly 20 years of straight console gaming because at the time they were available it was a much cheaper way to get into gaming.. but now, now it costs the same and theres still so much a console cant do (like 3rd party mods) and myself, and countless others i played with on xbox live have lost faith in console gaming and are coming over to PC.. there will be a HUGE influx of former console gamers into the PC market once the next gen consoles come out, even more when the steam box comes out.. it would simply be unwise for a developer to ignore a controller option

and crunchy, so far the navigation controller is the best nunchuck device ive found.. im curious what youve found because ive been looking

[Chomby]

If there's an option to use a controller and the controls aren't terrible (looking at you, Magicka) I go for the controller. Otherwise KB+M all the way.

[Persephone Sapphora]

Mouse+KB for most games.
Gamepad for titles that are absolutely impossible to use Mouse+KB.
Racing Wheel for racing games.
Flight Stick for space sims.

BurntByHellfire の投稿を引用：

PC is quickly headed towards a bigger focus on controller, youd probably have a shorter list trying to name the pc games that DONT have full controller support.. battlefield, crysis, bioshock, just about everything valve makes, played dead island, left 4 dead, and a rather huge list of games that all fully support a controller, and the steam box will encourage even more to do so.. so its clear to see the market will be getting behind controller use even more

Supporting more than one peripheral does not mean a huge shift. Tell me when those listed above games have zero support for M+KB then we can discuss more "Focus" on gamepads. Are gamepads more common in gaming? Sure, that's because of consoles are popular and already have gamepad support setup. It's a simple port for those control setups.

[Persephone Sapphora]

BurntByHellfire の投稿を引用：

so my recommendation to game developers is make provisions for both.. ive PROVEN that even arma 3, which everyone who plays it claims is impossible to map to a controller, can effectively, intuitively, and intelligently be mapped to a controller.. so game developers should just make provisions for both control interfaces by having someone like me whos familiar with and prefer controllers to develope a good controller based control scheme to allow either input device to be used on any game

Making concessions in some games for gamepad support can mean removing mechanics. I also doubt mapping controls to a gamepad in ArmA was remotely optimal.

[Ulfrinn]

actually, the way ive mapped controls in arma is quite optimal, doesnt require me to use a keyboard and its quicker and more intuitive to do what i need to do with that controller.. any gaming developer that believes they have to dumb down a game because of lesser buttons is just too dumb himself to develop a good control scheme to not need 100 buttons.. i gave an example on how the arma interface is incredibly inefficient, and requires you to move all over the keyboard to use a lot of the controls.. i can access all those same controls without moving my hands

so the fear that games will be dumbed down because of a controller, no, not unless the developers are just REALLY bad at creating good control schemes, and by that i mean, have one button open a menu of options you can quick select and such, kind of like how my arma control scheme lets me use the d-pad to cycle through main weapons and quickly select the handgun or launcher.. but only while im holding the reload button essentially making that reload button bring up a menu of options

i think what mouse and keyboard users are really afraid of is when games take advantage of things they dont have, like dual analog movement, trigger axis', requiring them to have more than just a table of buttons to adequately play

[crunchyfrog]

BurntByHellfire の投稿を引用：

let me just say this.. i began gaming on ATARI.. not any of the later ones, but the atari that was out before the NES, ive owned a couple different ataris, NES, SNES, genesis, N64, PSX, PS2, xbox, xbox 360, gamecube, and wii.. ive played sims and civilization on PC, and before that my last PC game was the original doom when it was new

nearly 20 years of straight console gaming because at the time they were available it was a much cheaper way to get into gaming.. but now, now it costs the same and theres still so much a console cant do (like 3rd party mods) and myself, and countless others i played with on xbox live have lost faith in console gaming and are coming over to PC.. there will be a HUGE influx of former console gamers into the PC market once the next gen consoles come out, even more when the steam box comes out.. it would simply be unwise for a developer to ignore a controller option

and crunchy, so far the navigation controller is the best nunchuck device ive found.. im curious what youve found because ive been looking

Forgive me for being a bit lazy at this moment, but in general, I'd offer you to have a look at Ablegamers.com and have a trawl through their page - iirc, they give links to some of the devices I'm speaking.

I don't have them to hand at the moment, and I forever am forgetting their names. But if you still get stuck, I'll get back to you on this.