Im so sick and tired of greedy artists trying to halt AI Art

[Millennial_KiwiGamer]

AI Art is the ultimate equalizer in the sense that it allows anyone to put in a description of what they want and then they get that, or something near enough.

It's fantastic for users. It gets rid of needing to commission every little thing saving $$ for the average bob. Not everyone is made of money to be paying artists tons of money for a picture that might take days to make when you can just roll the generator a few times and get something of equal if not better quality than the artist themselves.

The "compromise" argument is also hilarious. Anyone who pays an artist OR uses a generator is compromising because they're relying on a third party to make their vision.

AI Art Good. Greedy Artist bad. :)

[Michanicks]

lankaras の投稿を引用：

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

how often do you see people who define every single item and being before discussing things in the internet?

Not quite often enough. That's why those discussions are utterly pointless.

Then why did you annoyed me with your demands of specific definitions? Make up your mind.

lankaras の投稿を引用：

Is this really so hard for you to understand? I would think it is quite easy. Making a sculpture by hand is obviously a LOT different from just modeling it digitally. Anyone can see that, you're making it sound like it requires an art degree.

Is this really so hard to understand? That's me who should ask this question.
Yes, it's different, and so next? It's not the point of what is harder, it's the point of you creating the artwork by yourself in either case just by different means.

Art degree? No. To make a decent model in both cases you have to know the same amount of anatomy, gesture and composition, the rest is medium specific knowledge stuff which is while important and hard, but still is secondary.

lankaras の投稿を引用：

That "close to 100%" is your opinion only, and you haven't provided any basis for it. The 3D printing could be compared to mass production, fully automated. Are you trying to say that there is NO artistic value in the process of hand crafting itself?

You asked me for my definition first by yourself, and now you complaining about that definition? What is wrong with your arguing?

- 3D printing could be compared to mass production, fully automated.
- Could? Yes. Should? No, why? What the point? By the same logic you can print every work you did in 2D be it eirther traditional or digital, just scan it and go for mass production. So again, what's the point?
Hehe, its actually ironic you comparing a human labor to a mass production while being a AI advocate, that's just amusing.

- Are you trying to say that there is NO artistic value in the process of hand crafting itself?
- No, where the hell did you pull that from? Hand crafting is a specific medium of art, if you practice digital, you will be able to go traditional with hand-crafting easier and vice versa. It's because many important skills are shared between ALL possible mediums of the art, so by changing medium you only have to get used to new medium (which still may take a considerable amount of time) and it's laughtable you putting hand-crafting as a completely different thing to creating the very same model, just by using the different and more easier way.

Why do you speculate about things you know nothing about so hard? Why you trying to achieve it with? All this arguing would be avoided if you would actually be an artist instead of simply discussing them.

[Kapitein Gnapmans]

🍋 Lemonfed 🍋 の投稿を引用：

you keep saying it's take efforts to create simple basic english prompt , this is a still a defensive stance about A.I artwork no matter how you try to walk out of it.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and actually respond here.

No, it is not a "defensive stance about A.I. artwork". I was simply saying that to get good, specific results, a simple prompt will not be enough.

🍋 Lemonfed 🍋 の投稿を引用：

I even gave you an example , a simple prompt that even a 9 years old kid could have come up with and bing image creator actually created something that look more details then anything that even a professional could make using the same ammount of time that I needed to make this prompt even when you consider all of the automated functions of photoshop.

The "adult cat girl wearing a kimono"? Well, I don't know how familiar you are with anime but that is not a cat girl. It is a cat with human hair. If I had put in that prompt, that would totally not be what I wanted. Furthermore, it has a random pose, random facial expression, random camera angle, random background, etcetera.

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

let just wait the day that college start handlind diploma in ''prompting'' then if it is so hard to create prompt.

cd games\play\Doom\

C:\games\play\Doom\GZDoom.exe -load brutaldoom.pk3 ultraviolentmap.wad

eh look , I've wrote a command lines , I'm a programmers now.

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

lankaras の投稿を引用：

🍋 Lemonfed 🍋 の投稿を引用：

you keep saying it's take efforts to create simple basic english prompt , this is a still a defensive stance about A.I artwork no matter how you try to walk out of it.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and actually respond here.

No, it is not a "defensive stance about A.I. artwork". I was simply saying that to get good, specific results, a simple prompt will not be enough.

🍋 Lemonfed 🍋 の投稿を引用：

I even gave you an example , a simple prompt that even a 9 years old kid could have come up with and bing image creator actually created something that look more details then anything that even a professional could make using the same ammount of time that I needed to make this prompt even when you consider all of the automated functions of photoshop.

The "adult cat girl wearing a kimono"? Well, I don't know how familiar you are with anime but that is not a cat girl. It is a cat with human hair. If I had put in that prompt, that would totally not be what I wanted. Furthermore, it has a random pose, random facial expression, random background, etcetera.

that doesn't matter , the result are there , it's created a very detailed picture from aboslutely no effort from my part.

the results all depend on the quality of the A.I generating model and you keep avoiding this simple points because you can't do anything else then cherry pick in order to convice yourself to have anything that come close to an argurment.

[Angel]

🍋 Lemonfed 🍋 の投稿を引用：

...the only exception I'd say would be peoples like Angel , if someone at least take the A.I artwork and transform it throught graphic design then yeah , there is merits in this and it's fine.

I'm extremely particular with my art so I take my time Photoshoping, retouching and regenerating sections. But I do sell my art/do comissions (mainly for private clientale and corporate) which is why I take the time, effort and care it needs.

[Kapitein Gnapmans]

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

Then why did you annoyed me with your demands of specific definitions? Make up your mind.

Because I am trying to make it less pointless. I am not saying anything contradictory here, if you think I am then you must have misunderstood.

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

Yes, it's different, and so next? It's not the point of what is harder, it's the point of you creating the artwork by yourself in either case just by different means.

I think I already answered this. By that definition, there is no problem with using AI. It's a computer program, not a person. So I am doing it by myself. Just by different means.

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

You asked me for my definition first by yourself, and now you complaining about that definition? What is wrong with your arguing?

Umm that was a definition? Doesn't look like one. And I didn't ask that just before, did I? I am pretty sure nothing is wrong with my arguing, it's more like difficulty in communication.

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

- 3D printing could be compared to mass production, fully automated.
- Could? Yes. Should? No, why? What the point? By the same logic you can print every work you did in 2D be it eirther traditional or digital, just scan it and go for mass production. So again, what's the point?
Hehe, its actually ironic you comparing a human labor to a mass production while being a AI advocate, that's just amusing.

I am not an "AI advocate". Funny how people always think like that. And annoying. I have not said anything like that in this whole thread, yet you interpret it like that. See, that is why communication is difficult. Especially when you don't know the other person.

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

- Are you trying to say that there is NO artistic value in the process of hand crafting itself?
- No, where the hell did you pull that from? Hand crafting is a specific medium of art, if you practice digital, you will be able to go traditional with hand-crafting easier and vice versa. It's because many important skills are shared between ALL possible mediums of the art, so by changing medium you only have to get used to new medium (which still may take a considerable amount of time) and it's laughtable you putting hand-crafting as a completely different thing to creating the very same model, just by using the different and more easier way.

That is simply the logical conclusion from your saying that "3D printing artists still have 100% of artistic merit". If that is true, then it must mean that the hand crafting, which they do not do, must be valueless.

[Kapitein Gnapmans]

🍋 Lemonfed 🍋 の投稿を引用：

the results all depend on the quality of the A.I generating model and you keep avoiding this simple points because you can't do anything else then cherry pick in order to convice yourself to have anything that come close to an argurment.

Ah, you're trying to psychoanalyze me again. Well, seems like you did not deserve to get the benefit of the doubt. Just going to ignore you again then.

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

lankaras の投稿を引用：

🍋 Lemonfed 🍋 の投稿を引用：

the results all depend on the quality of the A.I generating model and you keep avoiding this simple points because you can't do anything else then cherry pick in order to convice yourself to have anything that come close to an argurment.

Ah, you're trying to psychoanalyze me again. Well, seems like you did not deserve to get the benefit of the doubt. Just going to ignore you again then.

no , just point out the obvious because you avoid anything that contradict what you've said and only pick the weaker part of the other person arguments.

pointing out a terrible behavior of yours is not pshychoanalyzing unless I also try claim that you're doing it on purpose.

I'm also gonna stop reading you because even a conversation with chatgpt would be more fun.

[Michanicks]

lankaras の投稿を引用：

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

Yes, it's different, and so next? It's not the point of what is harder, it's the point of you creating the artwork by yourself in either case just by different means.

I think I already answered this. By that definition, there is no problem with using AI. It's a computer program, not a person. So I am doing it by myself. Just by different means.

By what definition? Ah, yes, by this definition while ignoring all what i've previously have said. Right. If you gonna ignore my previous statement, then by definition you clearly gonna fit anything you ever wanted.

Also
- "It's a computer program, not a person. So I am doing it by myself."
- If the only thing that differ you from commissioner is that your "artist" isn't truly a person, then is says a lot about how little it means for you to be an artist.

lankaras の投稿を引用：

Umm that was a definition? Doesn't look like one. And I didn't ask that just before, did I? I am pretty sure nothing is wrong with my arguing, it's more like difficulty in communication.

"doing art is creating the artworks without ordering someone or something else to complete that work for you by making you not having any need to put any considerable amount of labor during which you could transfer your expeirences and emotions on the canvas not linked directly to a description commissioner may or may not give you"

Quoting myself from above. I've come up with that by your request. Don't forget it again to make me repeat it for second time in future, i already wasted too much time on this arguing.

lankaras の投稿を引用：

I am not an "AI advocate". Funny how people always think like that. And annoying. I have not said anything like that in this whole thread, yet you interpret it like that. See, that is why communication is difficult. Especially when you don't know the other person.

Can you blame us? You:
1) Don't know what being an artist is;
2) Don't know about process of drawing and especially the difference between the mediums but still arguing about this theme and even comparing it to prompting for AI;
3) Implying that writing words in Google Search and in some cases sharing references to executor is enough to make person an artist.

Everything checks out, you talk like a regular AI advocate, therefore the confusion.

lankaras の投稿を引用：

That is simply the logical conclusion from your saying that "3D printing artists still have 100% of artistic merit". If that is true, then it must mean that the hand crafting, which they do not do, must be valueless.

What? In what world it's a logical conclusion? In what context? In what setting? How did you come up to this idea? It's bizzare.

I realised i don't understand what do you think 3D printing artists are and how do they do their job, and what do you think a hand crafting is and what exactly part of either of their craft you may be excluding with such mentality.

For the context, the 3D digital artist i know is creating his very own 3D models, he's also creates models especially for printing and he is printing them himself on his own printer. That's it. Majority of artists work like that, making their whole job by themselver and i have an assumption that you are talked about people who download from the web other people's models and print them by themselves. Therefore all your talk about 0%-value of hand-crafting, and out of blue mass-production comparison.

[Γαῖα]

We were told by experts that technology would free us up so as to do things like enter the world of art and entertainment.
Like a great many things now days, AI wont be stopping at art and will consume all that humans do and are.
People who rely on a living are already being pushed aside by technology in the real world and now it appears online to. How long before a clever AI up stages those that make a living on social media with better content, better wit. How long before AI populates the likes of only fans, sells more on the likes of vinted, makes more money with cypto currency or makes better games.

The praise it earns is not only by those that own it but those that lack talent in a particular field who can now do something once impossible.
Some will argue its inclusivity yet its rather the death knoll of individuality and the merits that come with it.

[crunchyfrog]

Quite quite wrong.

It isn't as simple as "greedy artists".
Consider this.

You go to wherever you wokr tomorrow and your boss says "sorry you're being laid off as we've managed to employ a computer system that does your job".

You complain. Now you strcitly must be a "greedy" employee, right? By your own logic.

Except of course you aren't. Artists are doing art as their chosen profession. They are seeing not just things take their jobs, but acually use as the pool of data, THEIR OWN ART.

That's not cool and you know it.

[Fumo Bnnuy n Frends]

🍋 Lemonfed 🍋 の投稿を引用：

Fumo Bnnuy n Frends の投稿を引用：

Anyone against A.I. at this point are nothing but monetary gains same for anyone for

it's all about $$$$

no one cares about the greater good anymore

I don't even make money from my art and I still find peoples who say that A.I art take effort to be dishonest and pretentious.

the only exception I'd say would be peoples like Angel , if someone at least take the A.I artwork and transform it throught graphic design then yeah , there is merits in this and it's fine.

but the prompting itself is merely a game of patience and like I said the result and ammount of time put into it depend entirely on the quality of the A.I generative model more then the quality of prompter.

for the initial programming yes it does take work and skill

for the smucks who copy paste pictures to feed to the program nope

[crunchyfrog]

Γαῖα の投稿を引用：

We were told by experts that technology would free us up so as to do things like enter the world of art and entertainment.
Like a great many things now days, AI wont be stopping at art and will consume all that humans do and are.
People who rely on a living are already being pushed aside by technology in the real world and now it appears online to. How long before a clever AI up stages those that make a living on social media with better content, better wit. How long before AI populates the likes of only fans, sells more on the likes of vinted, makes more money with cypto currency or makes better games.

The praise it earns is not only by those that own it but those that lack talent in a particular field who can now do something once impossible.
Some will argue its inclusivity yet its rather the death knoll of individuality and the merits that come with it.

I don't personally fear AI too much as it's a tool like any other.

Sure it's going to have issues like this very one where it will take certain jobs away, and there MUST Be regulation especially as it shouldn't be allowed to do that while using the artists own data against them.

But AI is a good feature when used to shortcut certain jobs.

I've been having a lot of good use with it to demix songs and fix things I thought I'd never be able to. That's a great thing. There's so many Beatles songs or old 70s songs, or even recordings of my own where we did things on a budget and it has issues.

I can now correct them.

But that's not to say dishonest greedy companies will exploit the ♥♥♥♥ out of it. They likely won't understnad it and think it will solve things it can't and mess things up, but let them.

But there must be regulation. I know a lot of US people hate the idea of regulation, but it works.

[Kapitein Gnapmans]

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

By what definition? Ah, yes, by this definition while ignoring all what i've previously have said. Right. If you gonna ignore my previous statement, then by definition you clearly gonna fit anything you ever wanted.

"doing art is creating the artworks without ordering someone or something else to complete that work for you by making you not having any need to put any considerable amount of labor during which you could transfer your expeirences and emotions on the canvas not linked directly to a description commissioner may or may not give you"

Quoting myself from above. I've come up with that by your request. Don't forget it again to make me repeat it for second time in future, i already wasted too much time on this arguing.

Oh, that. I didn't realize you were referring to that. You said it quite sarcastically, so I hadn't taken it as your true and permanent definition.

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

Can you blame us? You:
1) Don't know what being an artist is;
2) Don't know about process of drawing and especially the difference between the mediums but still arguing about this theme comparing it to prompting for AI;
3) Implying that writing words in Google Search and in some cases sharing references to executor is enough to make person an artist.

Everything checks out, you talk like a regular AI advocate, therefore the confusion.

Those things are not true. You still don't understand the different levels you and me are operating on. Even though I already tried to explain it. You keep interpreting my words in YOUR way and drawing your (incorrect) conclusions. So yes, I can blame you.

Michanicks の投稿を引用：

What? In what world it's a logical conclusion? In what context? In what setting? How did you come up to this idea? It's bizzare.

I realised i don't understand what do you think 3D printing artists is and how does he do his job, and what do you think a hand crafting is and what exactly part of either of their craft you may be excluding.

For the context, the 3D digital artist i know is creating his very 3D model, he's also creates models especially for printing and he is printing him himself on his printer. That's it. Majority of artists work like that, making their whole job by themselver and i have an assumption that you are talked about people who download and print models other people's do first. Therefore all this talk about 0%-value of hand-crafting, and out of blue mass-production thesis.

This conclusion is simply based on your own words from before. If the 3D printing artist has 100% of artistic merit, it means there is 0% left for the manual sculpting. Because he does not do that and still has 100%.

It's simple logic. But you don't think logically, you think practically. And the things you say are not accurate, maybe it was meant figuratively or something? But I have to go by what you say, because it is all I have to go by. That is what the miscommunication is mostly about.

[🍋 Lemonfed 🍋]

crunchyfrog の投稿を引用：

Γαῖα の投稿を引用：

We were told by experts that technology would free us up so as to do things like enter the world of art and entertainment.
Like a great many things now days, AI wont be stopping at art and will consume all that humans do and are.
People who rely on a living are already being pushed aside by technology in the real world and now it appears online to. How long before a clever AI up stages those that make a living on social media with better content, better wit. How long before AI populates the likes of only fans, sells more on the likes of vinted, makes more money with cypto currency or makes better games.

The praise it earns is not only by those that own it but those that lack talent in a particular field who can now do something once impossible.
Some will argue its inclusivity yet its rather the death knoll of individuality and the merits that come with it.

I don't personally fear AI too much as it's a tool like any other.

Sure it's going to have issues like this very one where it will take certain jobs away, and there MUST Be regulation especially as it shouldn't be allowed to do that while using the artists own data against them.

But AI is a good feature when used to shortcut certain jobs.

I've been having a lot of good use with it to demix songs and fix things I thought I'd never be able to. That's a great thing. There's so many Beatles songs or old 70s songs, or even recordings of my own where we did things on a budget and it has issues.

I can now correct them.

But that's not to say dishonest greedy companies will exploit the ♥♥♥♥ out of it. They likely won't understnad it and think it will solve things it can't and mess things up, but let them.

But there must be regulation. I know a lot of US people hate the idea of regulation, but it works.

I fully agree on that , there are use for A.I but peoples are underestimating it's potential to become a nuisance rather then a genuine solutions.

maybe the normal everyday users will just get to have fun with it , use it the way it was meant and as a tool but faceless corporations that have billions of dollars in the bank will just use it to abuse it any way they can.

even with ordinary chores , if A.I take away too many jobs it's gonna be a problem and it's gonna disrupt the economy in a very damaging way , what are we gonna do once the robot do everything from delivering your amazon orders , making your meals , clothes and pretty much also everything else that peoples need to live comfortably.

are we just gonna put everyone on a universal basic income and tell them to just get used to be a bunch of couch potato ?