When are games going to evolve beyond mouse and keyboard?

[DrummerJacob]

Ive been gaming for 30 years now and its starting to get insane, the amount of time and effort people put into mice work. Aiming, flicking, tracking, all that stuff. Its terrible for your muscles and your hand and arms. It can destroy them actually.

I am very curious why we havent figured out a way to have a better system than moving your right arm around on a mouse pad that gets dirty, twitching your wrists and pressing with your right pointer finger. How is this 90% of gaming?

Whats the next step and why arent we taking it? I have been using Aim Labs for a while now and one day recently I just came to this realization that what im practicing is so stupid and primitive in gaming, and made me not want to focus on this ridiculous skill set any longer just to be able to have a competitive advantage in video games.

Anyone up on new technology? When are we going to be able to not rely on our flawed usage of our Extensor Digitorum, Flexor Digitorum Superficialis and First Dorsal Interosseous?

When you really step back and think about it, it seems ridiculous how far weve developed technology but still use this mouse that was invented in 1963. The only thing thats ever changed was the method to track the movement.

Every other industry has made major improvements. The way we interact with phones, the way we interact with cars, buttons on any interface, the way we interact with any device....somehow the computer has just been untouched, unless im missing some new techonology.

And yes, I am aware of VR, but im specifically talking about computers using monitors in the traditional way. We have racing wheels for car games and we have controllers but a controller is extremely inefficient and theres no competitive comparison between the two.

Even the original Nintendo had a gun and you could point it at the target and shoot and use stronger muscles in your body to have much more control. I wish there was something like that for competitive FPS gaming in a world where there are million dollar events happening all the time for these games and everyone just flicks their wrist around on a mousepad.

I know not everyone finds this imperative like I do. I just came to this conclusion after hurting myself with only a 15 minute play session on Aim Labs. Now my arm feels like it has electricity going through it at a low voltage and feels extremely uneasy and uncomfortable and im having to massage it constantly.

[DrummerJacob]

Kargor の投稿を引用：

DrummerJacob の投稿を引用：

When are games going to evolve beyond mouse and keyboard?

For the last 10 years, I've rarely played a game with mouse and keyboard.

Which competitive games do you play without a mouse and keyboard? Just curious since I dont see any on your profile activity.

[Zef]

ragefifty50 の投稿を引用：

i dont understand why trackballs didnt get popular...
pushing a mouse around is easy enough...but trackballs are way easier...
sure your thumb gets a good workout at the start...
but your arms shoulder and wrist dont suffer like they can with a
mouse and bad ergonomics...

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/mx-vertical-ergonomic-mouse.910-005447.html

there are always options

[Kargor]

DrummerJacob の投稿を引用：

Kargor の投稿を引用：

For the last 10 years, I've rarely played a game with mouse and keyboard.

Which competitive games do you play without a mouse and keyboard? Just curious since I dont see any on your profile activity.

So, why are you asking if you've already checked on my profile?

Aside from that, consoles have "competitive games" too. Look at them, and there might be PC-ports too.

[NakiBest]

Zef の投稿を引用：

ragefifty50 の投稿を引用：

i dont understand why trackballs didnt get popular...
pushing a mouse around is easy enough...but trackballs are way easier...
sure your thumb gets a good workout at the start...
but your arms shoulder and wrist dont suffer like they can with a
mouse and bad ergonomics...

https://www.logitech.com/en-us/products/mice/mx-vertical-ergonomic-mouse.910-005447.html

there are always options

* Very nice design, looks like a small clothes iron! :)

* I am very into ergonomics myself.

I use the Microsoft Sculpt Ergonomic Desktop wireless keyboard + mouse combo for many, many years now. Old one got broken, so replaced with a new combo.
This means I use this kind of keyboard for over 7 years now! :)

(Well, not the mouse - I also use a wired Razer Basilisk ver. 3 instead.)

[crunchyfrog]

This is largely a fallacious argument. You asserting that "why hasn't something better been done" is you saying you don't know of an example either.

So maybe there ISN'T anything better. All have pros and cons.

The fact is this is long term for a reason - it works well for the vast majority of people. And the risks are minimal.

You can even mitigate those risks. I'm disabled so I've helped loads of other disabled people by pointing them towards modified controllers. I personally use a marble mouse and have done for years as it really mitigates any stress realted to the hands for me.

You should maybe look into videos by people like LGR on Youtube as they document plenty of the weird and wonderful attempts to change controllers that failed.

The reality is there IS nothing better yet. And there may not be.
You have to remember that this is a leisure pursuit first and foremost. So people tend to want to do this in a relaxed position. So hand relaxed maybe in your lap with the fingers doing the bulk of the work. It's how we've evolved.

It's why things like VR will never get widely adopted or replace conventional gaming because it goes against this, for example.

[DrummerJacob]

crunchyfrog の投稿を引用：

This is largely a fallacious argument. You asserting that "why hasn't something better been done" is you saying you don't know of an example either.

So maybe there ISN'T anything better. All have pros and cons.

The fact is this is long term for a reason - it works well for the vast majority of people. And the risks are minimal.

You can even mitigate those risks. I'm disabled so I've helped loads of other disabled people by pointing them towards modified controllers. I personally use a marble mouse and have done for years as it really mitigates any stress realted to the hands for me.

You should maybe look into videos by people like LGR on Youtube as they document plenty of the weird and wonderful attempts to change controllers that failed.

The reality is there IS nothing better yet. And there may not be.
You have to remember that this is a leisure pursuit first and foremost. So people tend to want to do this in a relaxed position. So hand relaxed maybe in your lap with the fingers doing the bulk of the work. It's how we've evolved.

It's why things like VR will never get widely adopted or replace conventional gaming because it goes against this, for example.

Its not an argument, youre just making it one.

I never claimed to know of a better example. Im literally asking people if they know what the next step is in the evolution of game controlling, because I see it holding people and the way they play games back, and the amount of time people spend at computers these days, its causing harmful effects on the body.

There definitely are better ways, and I wanted to tap into the gamer base here and find out what those are specifically.

And I specifically didnt reference any leisure pursuit, I referenced professional gaming. Im not sure why youre ignoring what I wrote about. It seems if you just came here to debunk my question that you misinterpreted as something else.

Millions of people around the world make a living playing pro-games and creating content for games, and its becoming less and less a leisure thing and more of a full time thing for younger people, which is cause for even more concern in health and in controlling efficiency.

[The_Creative_Sage]

I agree with the points you have raised. I am researching into the haptic experience part of gameplay. A hypothetical question, say we do have a mouse and keyboard setup still, would you like to have a rumblepack effect in the mouse while playing? If no what kind of haptic feedback would you like?

[DrummerJacob]

The_Creative_Sage の投稿を引用：

I agree with the points you have raised. I am researching into the haptic experience part of gameplay. A hypothetical question, say we do have a mouse and keyboard setup still, would you like to have a rumblepack effect in the mouse while playing? If no what kind of haptic feedback would you like?

I wouldnt mind that, or even gaming chairs having that technology as well. I was a big fan of the N64 rumble pack for sure!

[IFIYGD]

*Some* (but not all) game work well with voice input/voice commands for kb/m controls.
The key is generally being able to rebind keys (or controller buttons).
I can play Grim Dawn (SP or co-op) using a mouse and voice inputs for all kb controls (though it's not great for a piano build). I can play The Long Dark the same way, as well as many other games I own. And I own some games that it does not work with at all. But many newer games and upcoming games are releasing with better Accessibility options that make voice input/voice controls a good option for some of us.

It can take some time to find the "best" SW and get it all set up, and games with anti-cheats built-in can sometimes detect the SW as a "cheat"- so you need to ask the devs or publishers if the particular SW is safe to sue with their game. I don't play ranked "competitive" games or e-sports games, so I can't say for sure if it would cause major issues with some that use VAC or EAC, etc.

For Singleplayer games, again, it tends to work just fine as long as the game has good key rebinding options, and you can speak or make consistent sounds (ones the computer will recognize easily and consistently). The main issue I have had over the years using voice input/voice commands is my mic picking up noises in the room with me- like another person waling in and talking or my Service dog barking. And you have to be able to not rage-scream at the monitor or that will get picked up and possibly used too. So- self-control is key. in a quiet room without any (or much) ambient noise or noisy neighbors.

[ShiZbanG]

Indeed. Now listen...

Have you seen the movie "strange days"? its about a cyberpunk society where you can record people's memories/20 minute segments of life and then play them back on a device you put on your head.

not only do you see through the persons vision, the device triggers the feelings/emotions/sensory section of the mind also so you believe you are actually there.

a kill switch to prevent psychosis will be added if it detects the brain enters problematic chemistry.

Imagine loading a "game" where you are a chihuahua dog in a backpack being cycled across autumn rural japan. Or a 26 year old waitress from Idaho having a shower. Oh they spoil me

[Crazy Tiger]

Why should they? I'm fine with KB+M or gamepads.

I've used all kinds of different "controllers", also Nintendo stuff. Not just the duck hunt gun back in the day, but also the Wii stuff. I always ended up disliking all such things. Ultimately, I simply end up with KB+M or a simple gamepad.