Should abandonware games be free ?.

[Grimaldus]

I vote yes.

Currently there is a ton of games from the age of 640*480 or otherwise that has been left to rot on the stores and very very few games are updated to fit todays 1080p which is a very common resolution.

And no, i'm actually not asking games to be free as a goal, would i really want is
all these days updated to be enjoyable with todays screens.
But i do however have the opinion that once a game stops reveiving updates
and becomes an "abandonware" it shouldn't be in the store with a price,
anything abandoned should imo be free.

I'm not asking for a complete graphical overhault. But if you as devs won't put
in time to at the very least update your games to fit todays resolutions,
your games, imo, qualifies as abandonware and should be free.

[lightwo]

Crazed Rabbit původně napsal:

lightwo původně napsal:

If a game isn't sold anywhere, especially if it's rare to find second-hand, does it really need a price? How would I support an 80s publisher if they don't offer the product any longer, especially if the entire company fades from existence?

literally a completely different scenario from the one OP wrote but sure go off king

Oh, frankly I misread the OP then.

In that case, if games are still being delivered, I still see value in offering them for a price, because a) there's likely community effort to bringing the games to today's standards, b) a possibility to play them on the intended hardware, real or not. Even better, offering them for free later could be great preparation for a sequel.

[Walach]

Maybe not easy but possible, tho I don't think the reason you gave is one that would work, with ease that is. :P

A little bit more info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonment_(legal)

[Mr Jt (Gog is king)]

Did i getting something wrong here isn’t abandonware more this flute of crappy games here on steam?If it’s about older good classic games i don’t think they should be free….You get all the offline installers on gog and i saved all my games on a 12tb hard drive new ones and older games.Game preservation is important and since drm free is an option as well and always will it’s definetly worth to pay money for it

[Crazy Tiger]

It doesn't matter what you consider to be "abandonware", OP. Arbitrary definitions by users are irrelevant.

[Electric Cupcake]

Silly question. Officially, it's a grey area, but defacto, it is free.

[Xautos]

Auraplayer (Likes to write) původně napsal:

Ok, so on one hand, it's a bad and it can be compared to such common IP crimes like theft and piracy, and on the other hand, with the help of certain communities and possibly the devs that made the game that is forgotten by the sands of time, a forgotten gem can be put back into the limelight and be given the rightful tender care and passion for it to be demanded more by its niche fans and newcomers that loved the game, ala "Remaster" or "Remake" and thus, is a good.

Not much a matter of legality, but a matter of digital ethics. :cozycrashfish:

not a remaster or a remake, just using the original games assets and building on them as the developer had envisioned their game to be. Freespace and Transport Tycoon are two that immediately come to mind, they remain faithful to the original works the developers put out, but they updated a crap load of things, this also includes graphics but essentially is the same game to each.

Widelands is another example it used to be a clone of Settlers 2 but they expanded beyond that and turned it into its own game, it's more a remake than a complete restoration and improvement project.

[Nx Machina]

TwisterCat původně napsal:

We're not talking about games you can purchase off a storefront, I made that clear in my last post, and the Steam EULA doesn't speak on behalf of the entire internet. Currently we're still awaiting the verdict on software preservation across the internet, but it's not changing anything. The powers that be across a few unnamed sites don't care about the law, and they're not subject to it, the government and software publishers have tried to arrest them, and failed. They are against the free market, they strangle indie games out of development funds, and they have absolutely no morals.

You're only looking at a fraction of this equation, the legal fraction of it. The bigger picture is that it's going to sting if Archive loses the legal dispute, because with something that large, and that many users disappearing from popularity, something worse is going to take it's place. Something illegal, something harming the gaming industry, something that will have those pieces of software, and attract the people that are now completely out of a legitimate option.

The guidelines need to be set at something other than "copyright holder always gets the last say", or there'll be hell to pay in this industry, because people will be far less inclined to spend any money on the industry if they're forced to go to an illegal and cost-free part of it just to get a retro game. Like it, or love it, the copyright laws will, eventually, be it now or later, burn this entire industry to the ground. They're making videos of their games illegal (Nintendo), they're making distribution of non-marketed software illegal, they're fuelling and entire illegal market doing it.

I am talking about games you can purchase off storefronts as is the OP when he refers to games "on the stores" and NOT "in stores" AND when they refer to "it shouldn't be in the store with a price". after all how many physical PC stores exist in your area as there are none where i live as they ALL sell console games.

We are discussing "abandonware" NOT preservation, nor a court case, which is your sidetracking and copyright is relevant to "adandonware".

Copyright PROTECTS the creators and YOU own a LICENCE only so maybe you should read those EULA's you agree to when downloading and installing games because if you do not agree you should remove the software from your PC.

Of course you would then jump on "my rights consumer rights are been violated" whilst ignoring developer, publisher rights are been violated because abandonware is not legal and unless the developer, publisher state specifically a game is free it remains theirs due to copyright.

[Nx Machina]

Auraplayer (Likes to write) původně napsal:

I'm starting to see a pattern here. Those who are against the establishment of "abandonware" (I'll call them junk games from now on) tend to look at the legalities of such conundrums and are staunch supporters of developers and game studios in their own way, while those in favor tend to look at what they perceive as "the greater good" of maintaining the integrity and artistry of games that are either forgotten or neglected by whoever entity owns that game, also staunch supporters of developers and game studios in their own way.

While I currently stand on the moderate side of this argument, I can feel that the latter has more merit and leeway in finding a solution to this issue than the former. :cozyjunimogreen:

And of course developers, rights are freely ignored when "free" is the mantra and those games are not forgotten as they are COMPLETE in the eyes of the developers especially when they where not written for Windows 10 or above.

[TwisterCat]

Nx Machina původně napsal:

TwisterCat původně napsal:

We're not talking about games you can purchase off a storefront, I made that clear in my last post, and the Steam EULA doesn't speak on behalf of the entire internet. Currently we're still awaiting the verdict on software preservation across the internet, but it's not changing anything. The powers that be across a few unnamed sites don't care about the law, and they're not subject to it, the government and software publishers have tried to arrest them, and failed. They are against the free market, they strangle indie games out of development funds, and they have absolutely no morals.

You're only looking at a fraction of this equation, the legal fraction of it. The bigger picture is that it's going to sting if Archive loses the legal dispute, because with something that large, and that many users disappearing from popularity, something worse is going to take it's place. Something illegal, something harming the gaming industry, something that will have those pieces of software, and attract the people that are now completely out of a legitimate option.

The guidelines need to be set at something other than "copyright holder always gets the last say", or there'll be hell to pay in this industry, because people will be far less inclined to spend any money on the industry if they're forced to go to an illegal and cost-free part of it just to get a retro game. Like it, or love it, the copyright laws will, eventually, be it now or later, burn this entire industry to the ground. They're making videos of their games illegal (Nintendo), they're making distribution of non-marketed software illegal, they're fuelling and entire illegal market doing it.

I am talking about games you can purchase off storefronts

Yeah, I don't think we actually disagree on that. If it's purchasable from a legitimate storefront, even somewhere like Epic, I don't really see any reason it should be made free.

[Crystal Sharrd]

Lemonfed původně napsal:

Valve can't legaly do that because even if a game is Abandonware the publisher or developers still hold a copyright for it and these rights can last several decades (depend of the country but I think u.s.a is over 70 years or something)

Life of the author plus 70 years.
For corporate authors, 95 years after first publication or 120 years after creation, whichever expires first.

[ermmmm]

Xautos původně napsal:

/all ? původně napsal:

Even if old games don't sell that well, they still generate more money than a free game. Also, making your old games free might even affect sales since there are more f2p games to choose from > less reasons to buy new games.
We all hate it but can't really blame a company for trying to make profits in a money-driven world.

They don't generate any money at all when they are considered something like abandonware, that is years after release where no one remembers it and gets no sales at all or so few it matters not. Under those circumstances, the developer could work with someone on the copyleft side of things and bring it back, even if it is free, it's still out there lovingly maintained by people who want to maintain it and keep the dream alive for the original developer. It's better than being forgotten altogether.

As I said above, whether or not an old game is selling well, making a lot of games free just because they are old will lessen the urge to buy games for many people. They can just play all the old games for free then why bother buying new ones. This is true for many businesses. Supermarkets would rather throw away old (but not expired stuff) rather than to give them away.

[Magma Dragoon]

Intellectual property is a fiat monopoly granted by the state, not a natural property right. Why stop at just copyrights on old software? Abolish it all.

[RRW359]

Kind of a change in subject but why is resolution the most important thing to so many people? I like running games at my monitor's resolution as well but if a game needs to be run lower either because there's no option or I'd prefer more FPS (or I'd rather have other settings higher for the same FPS) I don't have a problem with lowering it.

As for the subject, it would be nice but defining exactally what classifies as "abandonware" is tricky. I think games like JPOG that aren't sold online should be considered abandoned if the owners don't put some effort into making it available but I'm not sure that I agree a lack of updates is enough to prevent the owners from getting paid for a game clearly in demand.

[Xautos]

/all ? původně napsal:

Xautos původně napsal:

They don't generate any money at all when they are considered something like abandonware, that is years after release where no one remembers it and gets no sales at all or so few it matters not. Under those circumstances, the developer could work with someone on the copyleft side of things and bring it back, even if it is free, it's still out there lovingly maintained by people who want to maintain it and keep the dream alive for the original developer. It's better than being forgotten altogether.

As I said above, whether or not an old game is selling well, making a lot of games free just because they are old will lessen the urge to buy games for many people. They can just play all the old games for free then why bother buying new ones. This is true for many businesses. Supermarkets would rather throw away old (but not expired stuff) rather than to give them away.

Supermarkets in the UK and Europe have been known to either heavily discount foods near or at the sell by date, but supermarkets have also been known to give away food stuffs to charities that they can't sell any more simply because it just won't sell no matter what, it's better it's offered to those who will eat it than throwing it away as just excessive food waste.

Same also holds true of old games that have sold theirs and won't sell any more plus that they aren't noticed any more, they won't get any more sales no matter what, so what good would it do keeping it like that? It's better for the game in question to diversify itself than leaving it to rot in obscurity.

[SMIFFY]

No