what is this talk of "an european" being Dutch I don't think ANYBODY sees themselves as "european"

[De Hollandse Ezel]

well my fellow "europeans" lets hear it.. do any of you identyfy as european?
or do you see yourself as dutch, belgian, luxenbourgian, german, french, spanish, italian, etc etc

how you feel bout others classyfing all of you into one.. like people talk about "africans" or "asians" as if they were all 1 nation or culture..

[Stingray_tm]

Origineel geplaatst door Taxes Are Stealing:

Only a rootless fool who genuinely hates their own country would identify themselves with a supranational trading block.

For people like you there is only loving and hating. There is no nuance in between possible for you. I feel sorry for you.

[Tsubame ⭐]

Maybe not in Europe, but that may be the case elsewhere, either in popular usage and/or statistical analysis.

Terms like "Caucasian" or "White" are more common, though they often used to refer strictly or mostly to people from Europe anyway, even though Latinos/Hispanic and Middle Eastern countries have significant populations that look the part as well.

[Entity]

Origineel geplaatst door Stingray_tm:

Origineel geplaatst door Simulacrum:

I don't really know about that, I think overall many people are positive about the EU, it seems more like you're projecting your own feelings.

Excactly this.

I mean, even in the UK it seems like the majority of people now think, that leaving the EU was a mistake.

And unlike a certain Dutch person, I can back that up.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

Remember when loads were saying the nation had changed its mind, then voted in that cretin Boris with an 80+ seat majority?

[Stingray_tm]

Origineel geplaatst door Kantara:

Origineel geplaatst door Stingray_tm:

Excactly this.

I mean, even in the UK it seems like the majority of people now think, that leaving the EU was a mistake.

And unlike a certain Dutch person, I can back that up.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

Remember when loads were saying the nation had changed its mind, then voted in that cretin Boris with an 80+ seat majority?

This is why I said "it seems". Polling data can be wrong of course, but polling data is the only thing we have to assess the current climate. At least I am citing a source instead of baselessly asserting my own opinion as objective fact.

[Xero_Daxter]

I'm from China but I don't consider myself Chinese. Or at least not Han Chinese.

Not everyone from China is Chinese.

[De Hollandse Ezel]

Origineel geplaatst door Stingray_tm:

Origineel geplaatst door Kantara:

Remember when loads were saying the nation had changed its mind, then voted in that cretin Boris with an 80+ seat majority?

This is why I said "it seems". Polling data can be wrong of course, but polling data is the only thing we have to assess the current climate.

I can't get a poll for every european nation.. but I have red over the years plenty of polls for plenty of european nations that are strongly against the eu as it is now.

fact is that statisics can lie.. I point to the fact that every request for such a binding referendum has been denied... if they would be so sure they would not loose it would make their point much clearer than keeping hammeing how vital the euro is etc etc..

as for my nation :
I point to this...
when we were given the vote to agree or disagree to an european constritution the public voted by large mayority NO.. the goverment did it anyway
when we were given the vote to agree or disagree to ukraine becoming an associate member to the eu, we voted by large mayority NO.. the goverment did it anyway.
oh and they removed the peoples right to force referendum
-
there have been MANY calls for a nexit referendum a real one this time not one that "gives advise"

and given at least in my nation every time we were allowed to vote something that concerned the eu we voted in large numbers NO.. gives at least for my nation the sentiment..

also when you say the brexit was terrible.. depends first how you look at it.. having authonomy back is worth something more than money..
but one does not have to go the uk way... there was the eeg.. and shengen before there was eu.. one can by having associate treaty shengen.. without any of the other eu meddling not even that euro..

in my nation the largest party we now have is one that is VERY eurosceptic... which also proves a thing..

[De Hollandse Ezel]

oh found this

https://www.ioresearch.nl/actueel/nederlanders-willen-niet-dat-eu-meer-bevoegdheden-krijgt/

it shows that my nations people are very eurosceptical (as opposed to the goverment)
-> no more transferance of ANY authonomy to the eu...
(to the point one can also say support for taking back authonomy is also strong)

and while it claims that support for the euro is high.,.. thats false data..
1 they combined in 1 question support for internal market aka shengen (which most dutch support) and support for euro (which most dutch oppose) even than if you look up these parties by number of seats... than it's a tiebreaker... that most critical party here with just 25% is the largest party...

often leaving the eu is brought as but that would mean leave shengen (which clearly no dutch person wants) but if we leave the eu as member.. and become a mere asociate... so no representation in the eu, no euro, no party in redistrubtion of refugees or wealth.. no taxes to the eu.. just trade and open borders.. most dutch likely support that.

hence why that nexit vote.. is denied... as the politicians just know people will vote nexit.. just not as hard a nexit as the uk did..

well now if you look to other nations.. some especially those in east europe who gain buckloads of money are more pro-eu... but those are usually also more conservative.. and hate the woke agenda the eu pushhes.. and for that reason there is opposition there too...

without the euro and eu greece would just have bankrupted.. it wanted to bankrupt but europe did not let it.. it now lost way more of it;s economy than had it just bankrupted.. as it had done 3 times before the euro..

[ナルゴ]

we hebben een serieus probleem

[Stingray_tm]

Origineel geplaatst door De Hollandse Ezel:

I can't get a poll for every european nation..

Well, I could find relevant data in 10 seconds. Why can't you? It's not that hard with google.
https://europa.eu/eurobarometer/surveys/detail/3053
It's not directly about leaving the EU but how people in all EU countries perceive the future of the EU and its role.

Also here, specifically for your country:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_withdrawal_from_the_European_Union
9 out of 10 surveys made are clearly for staying in the EU, partially by a margin of 50 percentage points. The only survey with slight lead for leave was from 2016. Before Brexit... And it was only 48% vs. 45%.
I found it. Why didm't you? (Well, we all know: Because you don't like the real data, so you have to ignore it)

Origineel geplaatst door De Hollandse Ezel:

but I have red over the years plenty of polls for plenty of european nations that are strongly against the eu as it is now.

You are embarassing yourself.
Your claim was, that, given the chance, most European nations would leave the EU. After being pushed on it. you adimetted, that you don't have any data to back this up.
You could not name a single country, where polls indicate, that the country would leave the EU if given the chance. Let alone "most", which was your claim.
But you claim, that you "read something somewhere, somehow over the years", filtered through your obvious bias, that makes you think, that people don't like the EU.
I don't care. You are biased.

Also, being sceptical of the current EU does not translate 1:1 into leaving the EU. I know many people who would like to reform the EU but absolutely don't want to leave it. You read it as such, since, again, you are biased. Your opinion is not backed up by anything substantial.

Since you claim, that any statisctics, that you don't like, can lie, any statistics you want to pulll out of your behind to prove your point can also lie and can thus be dismissed by me without any further consideration.
I can play this game too, you know.

Also I don't care about you trying to shift the goal posts from "all nations want to leave the EU" to "my country es sceptical of the EU, which mean that maybe, perhabs all nations want to leave the EU".

You made a claim, you need to prove it. I haven't even adressed the claim, that governments "won't allow you to vote", because you didn't even provide evidence for the underlying claim, that "most countries" want to leave the EU in the first place.

You are even trying to twist articles, which specify that people are pro EU into "but they don't really mean, what they say". You are trying to spin everything to fit into your bias and agenda. Again, without any facts or evidence, but only your biased gut feeling. Reality doesn't care about your feelings.

[tmwfte]

Negative, I am a meat popsicle.

[TGC> The Games Collector]

I am a human being!

[AdahnGorion]

I identify as a human