WarHeRo (已封鎖) 2023 年 12 月 9 日 上午 7:47
AK-47: Russian Pride or German Masterpiece?
Here's a quick breakdown: Mikhail Kalashnikov, the so-called 'father' of the AK-47, wasn't the sole brain behind this firearm. Enter Hugo Schmeisser, the German legend behind the world's first assault rifle. There's a twisty tale of Kalashnikov and Schmeisser working together, with Schmeisser's contribution being suspiciously hush-hush (all thanks to classified Soviet documents 🤫).

Adding to the mystery, Kalashnikov's stories about the AK-47's design origins have flip-flopped over the years. From outright denial of any similarities with Schmeisser's designs to later admitting "a little bit of inspiration" and even collaboration! :cozybethesda:

And here's the kicker - while Kalashnikov was developing the AK-47 in one place, Schmeisser was in another, yet still under Soviet direction. Coincidence? I think not! :winter2019coolyul:

The early AK designs even had issues similar to Schmeisser's designs, further fueling the speculation. Plus, the USSR 'borrowed' a lot of Schmeisser's technical designs after WWII. 🕵️‍♂️

So, what's your take? Is the AK-47 a product of German engineering prowess, cleverly repackaged as a Soviet masterpiece? Or is it purely Russian innovation? Let's hear your thoughts on this intriguing piece of history! :cozycsgoctwhite:

sauce: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/03/14/designed-ak-47/
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目前顯示第 61-75 則留言,共 139
Dracoco OwO 2023 年 12 月 10 日 上午 2:04 
引用自 Pieshaman
引用自 Ulfrinn

It's called the ME-262. It's known as the worlds first operational jet powered fighter. Making it the first fighter jet. And yeah, they produced them as early as 1941. They even had a purely fighter jet squadron that operated up into 1945.

but but Hitler said its a bomber and it forbidden to call it a fighter!

"Mein Führer, das sieht doch jedes Kind, dass dies kein Bomber, sondern ein Jäger ist!"
is what general field marshal Erhard Milch said to Hitler
I actually remember that ♥♥♥♥ somehow.
WarHeRo (已封鎖) 2023 年 12 月 10 日 上午 2:04 
引用自 Irene ❤
I think Kalashnikov's name is more popular than Hugo.
thats only cuz of the nazi hate
kilésengati 2023 年 12 月 10 日 上午 2:22 
引用自 Irene ❤
I think Kalashnikov's name is more popular than Hugo.

Schmeisser means "thrower" in English. He created things that throw stuff at people. Kinda makes sense.
Stranger 2023 年 12 月 10 日 上午 2:33 
german jets never worked. just a gimmick. most of them crashed due to stalling during sharp turns in early engine designs, and preventing the stalling required slowing them to speeds below what propeller planes could achieve. this was true of us jets as well.

there were about 30 jets in the war total, all sides combined, until the last year or so when there were at most 100. most of them soviet jets used primarily for scouting air defenses, as they would also crash if they tried to dogfight.

the ak performs better in most engagement scenarios than the stg, is cheaper to manufacture and requires less specialized equipment, and also doesn't have any of the jamming, camming, or magdropping issues the stg is infamous for. even in the limited high-production-quality runs that got made.

there's a theory that alexi was actually just schmeisser's german name, and that slapping his name on kalashnikov's work was an effort to disguise the other more-useful people involved in the revisions. with the hopes that anyone who wanted to snipe some of their talent would try to steal schmeisser first. which they did, before finding out he was useless and not even responsible for the stg (via west german documentation.) as it turns out, the nazis had used him for the same purpose: to disguise their weapons development talent.

the real designer died in a fire in switzerland in the 70s, along with someone who had defected to switzerland with a bunch of gold. and who also didn't know he was the real designer, since he was kind of a dumbass who ran off with the gold rather than delivering it where he was suppsoed to.
最後修改者:Stranger; 2023 年 12 月 10 日 上午 2:48
WarHeRo (已封鎖) 2023 年 12 月 10 日 上午 11:13 
引用自 Stranger
german jets never worked. just a gimmick. most of them crashed due to stalling during sharp turns in early engine designs, and preventing the stalling required slowing them to speeds below what propeller planes could achieve. this was true of us jets as well.

there were about 30 jets in the war total, all sides combined, until the last year or so when there were at most 100. most of them soviet jets used primarily for scouting air defenses, as they would also crash if they tried to dogfight.

the ak performs better in most engagement scenarios than the stg, is cheaper to manufacture and requires less specialized equipment, and also doesn't have any of the jamming, camming, or magdropping issues the stg is infamous for. even in the limited high-production-quality runs that got made.

there's a theory that alexi was actually just schmeisser's german name, and that slapping his name on kalashnikov's work was an effort to disguise the other more-useful people involved in the revisions. with the hopes that anyone who wanted to snipe some of their talent would try to steal schmeisser first. which they did, before finding out he was useless and not even responsible for the stg (via west german documentation.) as it turns out, the nazis had used him for the same purpose: to disguise their weapons development talent.

the real designer died in a fire in switzerland in the 70s, along with someone who had defected to switzerland with a bunch of gold. and who also didn't know he was the real designer, since he was kind of a dumbass who ran off with the gold rather than delivering it where he was suppsoed to.
i heard that the jets could take off... were they effective? I guess yes, I heard from British pilots that they soiled their pants when they saw a jet for the first time passing by while they were flying.
最後修改者:WarHeRo; 2023 年 12 月 10 日 上午 11:14
cassette 2023 年 12 月 10 日 上午 11:17 
if they copied the m16's homework more, the entire AK platform wouldnt be so outdated today.
Sir Dookface McFerretballs 2023 年 12 月 10 日 上午 11:59 
The communists forced a farming engineer/inventor to make a gun, he happened to make a really good gun.
Ulfrinn 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 12:12 
引用自 karbon shiba
if they copied the m16's homework more, the entire AK platform wouldnt be so outdated today.

Neither is more outdated than the other.
cassette 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 12:21 
引用自 Ulfrinn
引用自 karbon shiba
if they copied the m16's homework more, the entire AK platform wouldnt be so outdated today.

Neither is more outdated than the other.
really?
you cant hotswap upper receivers with different barrel lengths and optics on an AK to configure it for different missions
you need a hydraulic press and a drill press just to change barrels on an AK
optics mounting relies on a hinging dust cover or overhanging side mount that doesnt hold zero when dropped, or direct to the rear ironsight block that limits you to low magnification optics because of the eye relief
stamped receivers beat themselves apart within only tens of thousands of rounds
the dust cover has huge openings for debris to ingress into the trigger
there's no last round bolt hold open and the magazines are rock n lock
最後修改者:cassette; 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 12:21
Ulfrinn 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 12:49 
引用自 karbon shiba
引用自 Ulfrinn

Neither is more outdated than the other.
really?
you cant hotswap upper receivers with different barrel lengths and optics on an AK to configure it for different missions
you need a hydraulic press and a drill press just to change barrels on an AK
optics mounting relies on a hinging dust cover or overhanging side mount that doesnt hold zero when dropped, or direct to the rear ironsight block that limits you to low magnification optics because of the eye relief
stamped receivers beat themselves apart within only tens of thousands of rounds
the dust cover has huge openings for debris to ingress into the trigger
there's no last round bolt hold open and the magazines are rock n lock

People in military aren't changing their own barrels. They aren't swapping out uppers. Usually, they don't even change their own options. It's something the civilian market has put a greater focus on. In the military, you're going to be assigned a weapon with a predetermined configuration, and you're going to use it, in that configuration. That's true for the US military, and any other. So, you're trying to apply things that don't actually apply to people who use these weapons to make a case.

Secondly, AKs have had interchangeable optics for decades. None of them use a "hinging dust cover." I don't think any military has ever actually produced an AK with a hinging dust cover, so nobody is using this for mounting optics to AKs. AKS-74Us have a rearward extended rear sight that extends over the dust cover, but optics don't mount to this, and this works independent of the rails AK's use for optics.

If stamped receivers "beat themselves apart" after tens of thousands of rounds there wouldn't be AKs several decades old still working, and still in service in places around the world.

And dust cover having those "large openings" is meaningless. If the "ingress" of debris was a problem for reliability, the AK wouldn't be known as being one of the most reliable rifles ever made, yet, it is.

Lastly, no last round bolt hold open wasn't because it lacks this so-called modern feature, it was a choice to leave it off. Most debris that jams up an AR-15 id debris that gets in front of the bolt, and it gets in front of the bolt when the bolt locks open on the last round leaving the chamber exposed to the elements. As the AK doesn't do that, the chamber remains free of the debris, and that's a big reason why it has it's reputation for reliability.

Most of what you just said was utter nonsense which sounds like something copied and pasted from an AR-15 ad.
cassette 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 3:34 
引用自 Ulfrinn
引用自 karbon shiba
really?
you cant hotswap upper receivers with different barrel lengths and optics on an AK to configure it for different missions
you need a hydraulic press and a drill press just to change barrels on an AK
optics mounting relies on a hinging dust cover or overhanging side mount that doesnt hold zero when dropped, or direct to the rear ironsight block that limits you to low magnification optics because of the eye relief
stamped receivers beat themselves apart within only tens of thousands of rounds
the dust cover has huge openings for debris to ingress into the trigger
there's no last round bolt hold open and the magazines are rock n lock

People in military aren't changing their own barrels. They aren't swapping out uppers. Usually, they don't even change their own options. It's something the civilian market has put a greater focus on. In the military, you're going to be assigned a weapon with a predetermined configuration, and you're going to use it, in that configuration. That's true for the US military, and any other. So, you're trying to apply things that don't actually apply to people who use these weapons to make a case.

Secondly, AKs have had interchangeable optics for decades. None of them use a "hinging dust cover." I don't think any military has ever actually produced an AK with a hinging dust cover, so nobody is using this for mounting optics to AKs. AKS-74Us have a rearward extended rear sight that extends over the dust cover, but optics don't mount to this, and this works independent of the rails AK's use for optics.

If stamped receivers "beat themselves apart" after tens of thousands of rounds there wouldn't be AKs several decades old still working, and still in service in places around the world.

And dust cover having those "large openings" is meaningless. If the "ingress" of debris was a problem for reliability, the AK wouldn't be known as being one of the most reliable rifles ever made, yet, it is.

Lastly, no last round bolt hold open wasn't because it lacks this so-called modern feature, it was a choice to leave it off. Most debris that jams up an AR-15 id debris that gets in front of the bolt, and it gets in front of the bolt when the bolt locks open on the last round leaving the chamber exposed to the elements. As the AK doesn't do that, the chamber remains free of the debris, and that's a big reason why it has it's reputation for reliability.

Most of what you just said was utter nonsense which sounds like something copied and pasted from an AR-15 ad.
military organizations do allocate personnel to conduct barrel changes - they're small arms repairers/technicians (MOS 91F, 2111, etc) and civilian gunsmith contractors
it wouldnt make sense to send a weapon back to the manufacturer for something that could be fixed at field-level maintenance

it takes around half an hour to conduct a complete upper receiver rebuild on a clamshell/milspec barrel nut and handguard upper because the headspace is already set and pinned from the factory
even less on handguards with barrel nuts that do not require timing, like most modern designs circa 2023

the US military does also place a large emphasis on being able to configure weapons towards changing mission parameters, e.g.
SOPMOD
MK12 SPR
MK18
URGI

to the extent that the MK18 and URGI is paired with a two upper receivers per lower receiver, with the MK18 being 14.5in/10.3in and the URGI being 14.5in/11.5in

"I don't think any military has ever actually produced an AK with a hinging dust cover, so nobody is using this for mounting optics to AKs."
look no further than the AK12.
it's the dumbest design imaginable to have to introduce moving parts between your sighting system and the barrel it's calibrated to every single time you field strip to clean

"If stamped receivers "beat themselves apart" after tens of thousands of rounds there wouldn't be AKs several decades old still working, and still in service in places around the world."
third worlders dont have the industrial capability to conduct extreme round count tests
but you dont have to look any further than ranges like battlefield vegas with hundreds of thousands of rounds through their guns to see testimonies on which parts fail in each design

"And dust cover having those "large openings" is meaningless."
the AK consistently fails mud tests because debris sticks to the right side of the bolt and causes a failure to eject
the AR's direct impingement system blows away any mud on the ejection port
this is important because you will expose your weapon to the ground while low-crawling
最後修改者:cassette; 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 3:39
Xero_Daxter 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 3:36 
Fun fact but Mikhail Kalashnikov actually regretted making the AK-47.
Stranger 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 3:38 
The Ak has so many different models and revisions, and many of them are iffy.

But as far as simply being a standard infantry rifle goes the ones that work are preferable to the AR's modularity. Simplifies supply lines and equipment costs significantly, as one would want in a total war situation.

Instead of the US' effective (with enough parts, configuration, and armorers) but highly commercialized platforms which turn supply chain management into one of the army's single most foundational and cripplingly dependent forces.

引用自 Xero_Daxter
Fun fact but Mikhail Kalashnikov actually regretted making the AK-47.
Yup, it ruined his life. Personally.

引用自 WarHeRo
i heard that the jets could take off... were they effective? I guess yes, I heard from British pilots that they soiled their pants when they saw a jet for the first time passing by while they were flying.

They're frighteningly fast, but can't aim their cannons at that speed and will stall if they slow down to a speed they can. They also couldn't maneuver, as it would also cause a stall.

Generally speaking 5 jets trying to boom and zoom without aiming didn't accomplish much, and the mission often concluded with everyone ignoring them and going home to their air defenses.

Typical low-accuracy Genji and Pharah play.
最後修改者:Stranger; 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 3:43
EASY PETE 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 3:39 
Gun go bang bang
cassette 2023 年 12 月 10 日 下午 3:53 
引用自 Stranger
The Ak has so many different models and revisions, and many of them are iffy.

But as far as simply being a standard infantry rifle goes the ones that work are preferable to the AR's modularity. Simplifies supply lines and equipment costs significantly, as one would want in a total war situation.

Instead of the US' effective (with enough parts, configuration, and armorers) but highly commercialized platforms which turn supply chain management into one of the army's single most foundational and cripplingly dependent forces.
the AR system is a lot easier to service for weapons repairmen because of the minimal tooling required to replace every single component
all you need is a bench vise and chamber rod to rebarrel an upper receiver, making the tools extremely easy to transport and set up in the field for any maintenance company
you can assembly a lower receiver with nothing but a hammer, punch set, and screwdriver

conversely, AK work requires a hydraulic press and potentially a drill press if the barrel is not already headspaced and indexed with a trunnion pin hole

source: experience as a mil/civ gunsmith
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張貼日期: 2023 年 12 月 9 日 上午 7:47
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