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Scurrybt Mar 8, 2023 @ 3:35pm
Samurai vs Knight
If a Samurai and a Knight fought each other, who would win? Both have time to prepare and both have all the conventional equipment they had during their respective heydays. Also, neither are on horseback.
Originally posted by Hammer Of Evil:
Originally posted by Scurrybt:
If a Samurai and a Knight fought each other, who would win? Both have time to prepare and both have all the conventional equipment they had during their respective heydays. Also, neither are on horseback.

hi scurry

> am a subject matter expert in metallurgy, among two other fields.

the reason so much work has to be put into japanese katana is because japan is a volcanic geostrata. meaning that the iron ore you mine there is very low purity.

what does purity really mean in the world of metallurgy? well without giving you a 8 hour lecture on deleterious inclusions in a given metallurgical microstructure, volcanic geostrata contains lots of PHOSPHOROUS and SULPHUR - both of these are VERY, VERY bad if they are inside of your iron or steel.

japanese folks found out you had to fold the steel to literally beat the daylights out of the metal enough to form a proper edge that wouldn't snap like a twig (which is what P and S do to your metal, make it super brittle.)

while the process may be honorable, the number of actual swords you can make per hour goes down to like zero. it took them days, weeks, to pound steel to the point where all the sulphur and phosphorous was out of the core.

so, other nations that had access to higher purity iron ore naturally (which is like everywhere else in the world, japan's is unfortunately some of the worst ore you can get) didn't have to put a quarter as much work into their iron to decarbeurize it (remove carbon, which is what makes steel.) enough to make it strong and tough to withstand blows.

unfortunately if you take warriors from both timeperiods and pit them against eachother, the japanese sword would probably not break the knight's armor, and the knights standard longsword would likely fold the katana in half, with the first blow struck.

its just, unfortunately, a product of nature in this regard.
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Showing 46-60 of 152 comments
Rumpelcrutchskin Mar 9, 2023 @ 1:39am 
I don`t see Samurai winning. Katana was designed to use against light armor, can`t slash through plate and as curved blade can`t be thrusted accurately enough to aim for gaps.
Longsword has longer range, has no problem doing damage through armor and is also extremely accurate as thrusting weapon because of the way they were balanced.
Yes katana is faster and more brutal all-out death or nothing weapon but you need to close the distance and if your blow is deflected you are immediately in the lethal range of longsword counterattack that can come from multiple angles because of the double-edge.
Originally posted by Rumpelcrutchskin:
I don`t see Samurai winning. Katana was designed to use against light armor, can`t slash through plate and as curved blade can`t be thrusted accurately enough to aim for gaps.
Longsword has longer range, has no problem doing damage through armor and is also extremely accurate as thrusting weapon because of the way they were balanced.
Yes katana is faster and more brutal all-out death or nothing weapon but you need to close the distance and if your blow is deflected you are immediately in the lethal range of longsword counterattack that can come from multiple angles because of the double-edge.
Sekiro want a talk with you.
permanent name Mar 9, 2023 @ 1:45am 
Curved blades slide around armor better when thrusting. Straight blades tend to get stuck due to larger contact surface.
Originally posted by permanent name:
Curved blades slide around armor better when thrusting. Straight blades tend to get stuck due to larger contact surface.
Now we are getting technical.
Rumpelcrutchskin Mar 9, 2023 @ 1:50am 
Originally posted by permanent name:
Curved blades slide around armor better when thrusting. Straight blades tend to get stuck due to larger contact surface.

Complete bs, curved blade gets stuck much easier when thrusting, provided that you actually hit the mark at all.
permanent name Mar 9, 2023 @ 2:37am 
If that were the case then rapiers having a flexible blade would be a disadvantage, rather than the entire point.
Moogal™ Mar 9, 2023 @ 2:38am 
Probably knight because of heavier armor and equipment
Rumpelcrutchskin Mar 9, 2023 @ 2:44am 
Originally posted by permanent name:
If that were the case then rapiers having a flexible blade would be a disadvantage, rather than the entire point.

Rapiers were not used against armor, they became later after the age of plate armor was already over and most you had were curved breastplates if even that.
permanent name Mar 9, 2023 @ 2:55am 
Originally posted by Munithe EXT:
Exactly. Curved blades glance easier than straight ones. Another point against Samurai.

They’re a lot better at cleaving through helmets without breaking. The curvature of the blade allows it to withstand perpendicular forces better, like a spring.

The same reasoning was behind the adoption of the cavalry sabre in the late gothic and early renaissance eras, as straight blades tended to shatter due to the force of impacting heavy armor from horseback.

There are very few accounts of european helmet cleaving after the axe and other heavy blades fell out of favor, and while samurai did tend to favor lighter armor designs their helmet were typically much sturdier than european designs.
permanent name Mar 9, 2023 @ 2:58am 
Originally posted by Rumpelcrutchskin:
Originally posted by permanent name:
If that were the case then rapiers having a flexible blade would be a disadvantage, rather than the entire point.

Rapiers were not used against armor, they became later after the age of plate armor was already over and most you had were curved breastplates if even that.

Yes, but the blade curvature is an advantage even when attempting to get around natural armor such as ribcages.

Your point about thrusting is simply incorrect, and many longswords were simply not used for thrusting as it could easily bend the blade. Especially if caught between plates.

Curved swords had smaller contact angles, and were thus much more difficult to pin and easier to retract. This is what made rapiers more popular than, say, sabres. Which were still the standard on the battlefield well into ww1.
Stakanov Mar 9, 2023 @ 3:00am 
A samurai has no chance against a knight in armor.
The samurai's sword is certainly sharp but fragile and light, against a knight's armor it can do nothing.
The knights also undergo extreme training and handle their weapon with perfection where anyone can claim to be a samurai.
permanent name Mar 9, 2023 @ 3:04am 
Originally posted by Stakanov:
A samurai has no chance against a knight in armor.
The samurai's sword is certainly sharp but fragile and light, against a knight's armor it can do nothing.
The knights also undergo extreme training and handle their weapon with perfection where anyone can claim to be a samurai.

Generally speaking the double edged cruciform longsword is much more fragile than the single edged curved blade.
Dutchgamer1982 Mar 9, 2023 @ 3:05am 
knight win hands down.
-much better armored
-much better trained
(knights were soldiers, period, most of history it was not herritary (but if a strong knight had a healthy son, he sure would be considered as the next trainy) this training started at a very young age, like 5 year old, and last till they were like 35)
(samurai were seen much more as nobility and thus had much other things to be trained in, knights did not need)
-much less restricted
(knights were NOT chivilrous, that was a later romantic invention, like any soldier, they were pragmatic and would get the job done, they would also opt to flee and fight another day, if need be)
(samurai had a whole code to apply to, and were thus far more restricted in their fighting style, than the whole self-suicide code, ment they could often not retreat or fight again after a loss)
-much more mobile!
(knight armor was tailored to fit perfectly, you can move in it easely.. poor mans armor weighted you down, not the custom fitted stuff of knights, compared to that the samurai armor was rather bulky, and as stated before the weight of both armors is comparable)
-much more reach, and more staying power!
(knight swords are same weight, but much longer, and they also have TWO edges, not one, this gave them far more moves and swings.. than a katana that only has 1 edge, and can only cut..
a katana is quite useless versus an armed oponent.)
-Knight horses were much better...
(knights had horses, samurai had ponies, the height difference matters a lot in war, samurai were also much less trained in fighting on horseback (usually only limited to firing arrows from horseback) and would dismount before a close combat fight, where all knight were trained as a shocktroop, first and foremost)
-knights have stronger bows,
knights WERE trained in archery before they ever picked up a sword, and english longbows were 200pound or more.. that hits like a bullet.. it can easely penetrate the thinner armor of samurai.
-shields!
Knights can carry and fight with a shield, a samurai does not.. having a shield matters a lot!

the samurai would be totally outclassed by the knights!

the only things that historicly could work against knights was what the mongols did.. very fast houses, with very good bows, on horseback... shoot at the knights get a few lucky shots, run of faster than they can catch up.
-> but the little ponies as well as the rough terrain of japan plus the samurais honor code would not allow this tactic.
Last edited by Dutchgamer1982; Mar 9, 2023 @ 3:06am
permanent name Mar 9, 2023 @ 3:09am 
Knights were predominantly political actors and raiders who knocked over eachothers villages. Very few had any real skill at arms, and tended to rely on private armies of peasants and professional soldiers to do the heavy lifting.

Samurai resisted conscription and mercenary practices until the 16th century.
Stakanov Mar 9, 2023 @ 3:10am 
Originally posted by permanent name:
Originally posted by Stakanov:
A samurai has no chance against a knight in armor.
The samurai's sword is certainly sharp but fragile and light, against a knight's armor it can do nothing.
The knights also undergo extreme training and handle their weapon with perfection where anyone can claim to be a samurai.

Generally speaking the double edged cruciform longsword is much more fragile than the single edged curved blade.

It depends on the forging technique, and in medieval times, knights' swords were known to be heavy and wide, because there were fights between knights.

The Japanese had light clothes and forged very thin blades, focusing on speed and sharpness.

The only advantage of samurai is dexterity, but in the end the advantages of knights are too important with strength, professionalism, competence,...
In my eyes knight against samurai it will end like this:
https://youtu.be/WRYM6B7CTs8?t=43

I precise that I study the medieval times and the weapons that they used
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Date Posted: Mar 8, 2023 @ 3:35pm
Posts: 152