Always disappointed in moderation standards for gaming communities.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

title says it all but to expand: It's sad to see just how many gaming based communities are run by people who seem to not give a ♥♥♥♥ about basic enforcability or accessibility. To these "leaders," the forum exists like a personal party where they can just kick out whoever they want and not give a ♥♥♥♥, instead of doing the job of a leader and manager in creating and enforcing respectively a formal standard in which everyone understands and can apply to. I see moderators and administrators that threaten to ban you for even walking in going "what's going on here, I don't understand the problem." or pointing out flaws in their actions even days after the fact. I see broad rules like "don't be rude," or "be respectful to one-another," which are terms so broad they can mean literally anything and no one even seems to care to discuss or organize what those standards are. Even regular users don't do this. Why wouldn't you go to the forums and speak with your fellows about the words a moderator, a public agent, said to you in official documentation to check how it lines up and come to an understanding of what the standards even are.

Want an example? Sure. I got one right here. Names are Mr. Johnson and Acme company respectively for obvious reasons. I have no interest in attacking anything personally.

-------------------------
From Acme Company

I get that it can feel unfair to receive a ban while other posts seem to be breaching our discussion guidelines. However, the existence of other posts which violate our rules does not permit objectionable posts to remain untouched.

If you find that some users' posts should be removed or moderated, please use the report feature and we will review them as soon as possible. We also recommend that you refrain from answering these posts in order to avoid posting messages which might be off-topic.

Since we have provided all of the information that is available for this inquiry, I will be closing this ticket. If you have any other questions or concerns, please submit a new request and we’ll do our best to help.

Regards,
Mr.Johnson"


From Acme Company 1

I understand you're unset and feel unfairly targeted by the suspension of communication rights between yourself and other players. However, as this is not a permanent ban we will not discuss this issue with you any further.

If you have any questions regarding the rules of community activities within our services please refer to the community guidelines by this link [Link provided]

Thank you and have a good day
Moderation Johnson
--------------------------------------------

Yes these are different companies and yes, this is all word for word. I can confirm by my personal correspondence with both Johnsons that this is 100% real, and it's FAR from isolated. And that's the nice ones. Groups like Nexusmods just insult you outright and make accusations against your person while others will say unspeakable terrible things. I was once told by a moderator of a major community discord(think something like an official discord for Xcom size here) that the entire moderation team was in agreement I can't say "surgery does not solve gender dysphoria," not on the basis it was spam or out of the bounds of the forum's topic(it wasn't either of those), but on the basis I was of incorrect birth(read, "not non-binary,") and thus have no right to do anything other than parrot the exact words of my betters. No, I'm not joking, and people defended the moderators and generally still do to this day no matter obviously discriminatory they were and still are.

We need to stop making excuses for this kind of moderation. You don't get to ignore rules and passively allow ♥♥♥♥ to happen without consideration, training, and staff to operate those rules and then get snappy when people point out you're just picking on one user, and you don't get to just make up whatever you want and demand to keep EVERYTHING behind closed doors so no one even know what the standards even are for public discourse. No one is saying have zero oversight, not even the hard libertarians, but people are saying to make the standards clear and let people discuss them, and the group that seems to want to simp for administration so they can have this power they they're at the top of the hill need to realize that isn't a functional system.

[Fake]

*laughs in reddit*

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Fake eredeti hozzászólása:

*laughs in reddit*

Honestly....reddit isn't the worst. That discord and Arenanet are. Reddit has a bit of a different issue. But I did laugh

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie eredeti hozzászólása:

Always disappointed in moderation standards for gaming communities.

title says it all but to expand: It's sad to see just how many gaming based communities are run by people who seem to not give a ♥♥♥♥ about basic enforcability or accessibility. To these "leaders," the forum exists like a personal party where they can just kick out whoever they want and not give a ♥♥♥♥, instead of doing the job of a leader and manager in creating and enforcing respectively a formal standard in which everyone understands and can apply to. I see moderators and administrators that threaten to ban you for even walking in going "what's going on here, I don't understand the problem." or pointing out flaws in their actions even days after the fact. I see broad rules like "don't be rude," or "be respectful to one-another," which are terms so broad they can mean literally anything and no one even seems to care to discuss or organize what those standards are. Even regular users don't do this. Why wouldn't you go to the forums and speak with your fellows about the words a moderator, a public agent, said to you in official documentation to check how it lines up and come to an understanding of what the standards even are.

Want an example? Sure. I got one right here. Names are Mr. Johnson and Acme company respectively for obvious reasons. I have no interest in attacking anything personally.

-------------------------
From Acme Company

I get that it can feel unfair to receive a ban while other posts seem to be breaching our discussion guidelines. However, the existence of other posts which violate our rules does not permit objectionable posts to remain untouched.

If you find that some users' posts should be removed or moderated, please use the report feature and we will review them as soon as possible. We also recommend that you refrain from answering these posts in order to avoid posting messages which might be off-topic.

Since we have provided all of the information that is available for this inquiry, I will be closing this ticket. If you have any other questions or concerns, please submit a new request and we’ll do our best to help.

Regards,
Mr.Johnson"


From Acme Company 1

I understand you're unset and feel unfairly targeted by the suspension of communication rights between yourself and other players. However, as this is not a permanent ban we will not discuss this issue with you any further.

If you have any questions regarding the rules of community activities within our services please refer to the community guidelines by this link [Link provided]

Thank you and have a good day
Moderation Johnson
--------------------------------------------

Yes these are different companies and yes, this is all word for word. I can confirm by my personal correspondence with both Johnsons that this is 100% real, and it's FAR from isolated. And that's the nice ones. Groups like Nexusmods just insult you outright and make accusations against your person while others will say unspeakable terrible things. I was once told by a moderator of a major community discord(think something like an official discord for Xcom size here) that the entire moderation team was in agreement I can't say "surgery does not solve gender dysphoria," not on the basis it was spam or out of the bounds of the forum's topic(it wasn't either of those), but on the basis I was of incorrect birth(read, "not non-binary,") and thus have no right to do anything other than parrot the exact words of my betters. No, I'm not joking, and people defended the moderators and generally still do to this day no matter obviously discriminatory they were and still are.

We need to stop making excuses for this kind of moderation. You don't get to ignore rules and passively allow ♥♥♥♥ to happen without consideration, training, and staff to operate those rules and then get snappy when people point out you're just picking on one user, and you don't get to just make up whatever you want and demand to keep EVERYTHING behind closed doors so no one even know what the standards even are for public discourse. No one is saying have zero oversight, not even the hard libertarians, but people are saying to make the standards clear and let people discuss them, and the group that seems to want to simp for administration so they can have this power they they're at the top of the hill need to realize that isn't a functional system.

Steam Support staff moderators can only give you what Valve allows them to. If they are being vague, that is for a good reason.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

cSg|mc-Hotsauce eredeti hozzászólása:

Steam Support staff moderators can only give you what Valve allows them to. If they are being vague, that is for a good reason.

:qr:

Cool I'll add them to the list "that's not acceptable." No harm on the moderators obviously and I'm mostly responding to make that clear. While some cases are moderators being racist like the discord example, both the Johnsons are wholly innocent on a personal level. It's clear they made pre-written responses to one of probable hundreds of tickets they have. But fact is the companies standards on this are unacceptable, and they are the messenger for both sides. So we still have to talk to the Mr.Johnsons the same way we would to the company head or moderation leadership.

[Birds]

Someone needs to get moderators in line!

I mean I agree, but it’s more likely for outlets to simply grow so large that any moderation becomes impossible and people wind up self-organizing to varied degrees of success.

A part of that necessarily entails public educational courses exploring etiquette and good practice in a group format.

But people get weird about that, too, so idk. Maybe eventually that could become more common.

Problematic company standards are an intermediary step in the complete loss of control.

[a Gabriel! Santos, Mariano.]

Man you are going in circles at this point(lessly). Edit: typo.

[UmmUmBurst]

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie eredeti hozzászólása:

Fake eredeti hozzászólása:

*laughs in reddit*

Honestly....reddit isn't the worst. That discord and Arenanet are. Reddit has a bit of a different issue. But I did laugh

Quit expecting everything to be a community and throwing labels on everything. It'll only disappoint you in the long run.

Like.... Discord is the worst? Discord is a collection of servers. If you contacted Teamspeak 10 years ago talking about how they need to impose morals and standards they'd cry laughing.

The whole mindset reminds me of when I used to be a hippy and one day I woke up. Realized that whole "community" was a bunch of lost people that really didn't have each other's backs.

That's where it blows my mind. New generation comes into the gaming community, which is a made up marketing term, and expects a bunch of shut ins to play nice. Just sounds out of touch.

The only rules should be no hate speech, no sexism, no racism, no railing on religion/politics, and try to be nice. Aside from that, it's just un-realistic expectations.

[videomike_Ultimate_Plushie]

Shakey eredeti hozzászólása:

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie eredeti hozzászólása:

Honestly....reddit isn't the worst. That discord and Arenanet are. Reddit has a bit of a different issue. But I did laugh

Quit expecting everything to be a community and throwing labels on everything. It'll only disappoint you in the long run.

Like.... Discord is the worst? Discord is a collection of servers. If you contacted Teamspeak 10 years ago talking about how they need to impose morals and standards they'd cry laughing.

The whole mindset reminds me of when I used to be a hippy and one day I woke up. Realized that whole "community" was a bunch of lost people that really didn't have each other's backs.

That's where it blows my mind. New generation comes into the gaming community, which is a made up marketing term, and expects a bunch of shut ins to play nice. Just sounds out of touch.

The only rules should be no hate speech, no sexism, no racism, no railing on religion/politics, and try to be nice. Aside from that, it's just un-realistic expectations.

But thats exactly what I'm talking about. What the ♥♥♥♥ does "nice," mean, what is or is not "Sexist," and why should I play nice with ideologies I despise and consider a host for terrible things happening to me. Should I never insult feminism, socialism, christrianity, anything? For ♥♥♥♥ sake at that point you're just enforcing blasphemy rules, only expanding them to include political affilation on top of religion. And the rest is so broad it can be applies to functionally anything, or in the case of nice, outright anything. You say what you do in the fourth paragraph, but then become one of those very people in the fifith. do you not see the hypocracy?

[Judgmental Amaterasu]

There's always a common denominator in posts like this. Hint: It's not the moderators.

[MinionJoe]

Judgmental Amaterasu eredeti hozzászólása:

There's always a common denominator in posts like this.

X/10

It's always "10".

[Zero, Dark Knight]

Well I'd really really uncomfortable making reports on any and all forum posts - regardless of how badly they breached rules if they were gonna treat me like that. :P
and as I just got a warning... I... I am extremely unsure now, what was so wrong about it because the message I got was, kind of odd, and the post I quoted, is still up. but mine isn't.

So, I think until this issue is sorted out -

in this make believe situation of course, Acme corp will just have to do without me

[Crazy Tiger]

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie eredeti hozzászólása:

Should I never insult feminism, socialism, christrianity, anything?

Sure you can. Just don't expect others to give you a platform for it if they don't want to.

[MinionJoe]

Zero, Dark Knight eredeti hozzászólása:

Well I'd really really uncomfortable making reports on any and all forum posts - regardless of how badly they breached rules if they were gonna treat me like that. :P

I generally only report illegal activity, because these forums are supposedly a platform and not a publisher.

If Valve wants to be a publisher and pick-and-choose what is allowed on their forums, I'm ready to file some slander/libel suits against them for what others have said about me.

[UmmUmBurst]

videomike_Ultimate_Plushie eredeti hozzászólása:

You say what you do in the fourth paragraph, but then become one of those very people in the fifith. do you not see the hypocracy?

Ya but my thought process works for me. And respecting one's beliefs ain't the same as enforcing blasphemy. You try going to another culture and ranting about their lifestyle. Won't get ya too far. Trust me, I was stupid enough to do it.

You're too caught up in whats right or wrong and you probably haven't seen enough of the world to realize.... stuff is the way it is, for a reason.

Sit there all ya want and complain about how unfair it is. Won't help. I've been there.

Focusing on how things that you can't even control, could be better, is just a dark road you don't wanna go down. I know cuz I've done it.

Focusing on how to improve things beyond the scope of most people's understanding, is gonna just isolate you from relationships with.... "simpler" people.

Not a fun place to be.

[GunsForBucks]

Nice means you can say stuff but not direct it at anyone in particular. Then it becomes personal attack. See the difference??

Also op was too long and I died half way through it but I suggest you read this if you have not already.
https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement