GOG already seemed to have started their summer sale..

[RPG Gamer Man]

Looks like GOG is directly competing against steam now...the war has begone..this is good though, this means possily decrease in prices on specific games..all the customers will win! GO US! When 2 similiar things compete like this, everyone wins..the customers win from lowered priced games, and now you got your choice of games between the two platforms.

[Start_Running]

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

rojimboo の投稿を引用：

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/892744-Why-Uplay-and-DRM-is-beneficial-to-us-gamers

Ignore the Uplay stuff.

Enjoy the read, and learn how you are destroying this wonderful industry.

Yeah I've been destroying it so hard that it's clearly in shambles and on its last legs today. I'm such a successful supervillain.

Your nice long essay says nothing new about DRM. It basically says that piracy hurts sales and disincentivizes content creators.

Your simplistic picture neglects the effects of DRM on legitimate consumers.

Consider that, thanks to Steam's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ up their website security last year, I got kicked off of my own Steam account and lost access to my Steam games without warning.

If I didn't have to use Steam to run my games -- in other words, if they were DRM-free -- I wouldn't have to deal with that crap.

Actually unless you had downloaded all the installers for your gog games and had them laying around. You'd pretty much still be in the same boat. Worse it would have probably taken you longer to notice and therefore made any recovery effort harder.

Your simplistic picture also neglects the fact that it's the big, famous works that are most affected by piracy. They have the demand, they have the marketing budgets, they get everyone to want their game so that they can make lots of money off of them, so when pirates offer the product for free then that seriously cuts into their revenues.

Cuts into everyone's revenue, big and small. There's a guy outside the Crossroads shopping centre here that basically sells Game Pack DVD's and yeah, they're all off of gog. Sells each DVD for $10 a pop.

Forcefully gating things behind a financial transaction actually hurts obscure content producers because it makes it harder for potential fans to form a following.

iT's a balancing act. They could just give their game away for free but the fact that they slap a price tag on it means they would like to eat something other than a cup of ramen for the day.

[rojimboo]

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

rojimboo の投稿を引用：

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/892744-Why-Uplay-and-DRM-is-beneficial-to-us-gamers

Ignore the Uplay stuff.

Enjoy the read, and learn how you are destroying this wonderful industry.

Yeah I've been destroying it so hard that it's clearly in shambles and on its last legs today. I'm such a successful supervillain.

Your nice long essay says nothing new about DRM. It basically says that piracy hurts sales and disincentivizes content creators.

Your simplistic picture neglects the effects of DRM on legitimate consumers.

Consider that, thanks to Steam's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ up their website security last year, I got kicked off of my own Steam account and lost access to my Steam games without warning.

If I didn't have to use Steam to run my games -- in other words, if they were DRM-free -- I wouldn't have to deal with that crap.

Your simplistic picture also neglects the fact that it's the big, famous works that are most affected by piracy. They have the demand, they have the marketing budgets, they get everyone to want their game so that they can make lots of money off of them, so when pirates offer the product for free then that seriously cuts into their revenues.

On the other hand, obscure stuff? That indie game that only a hundred people in the entire world know about? No one wants to pirate that. The dev is practically giving away free copies, usually in the form of review copies, to get attention. Forcefully gating things behind a financial transaction actually hurts obscure content producers because it makes it harder for potential fans to form a following.

I think I'll continue being a supervillain destroying the videogame industry by buying things DRM-free, thank you very much.

Indie games don't get pirated?

Check out World of Goo piracy rates (92%) or Witcher 2 piracy rates (80%) or Machinarium piracy rates (80%) etc etc.

Sure there are sometimes issues with DRM as with all software.

But we are talking about the big picture here. It's thanks to Steam that PC gaming is doing so well as it is now.

And no, the inconvenience to legit consumers was taken into account, as you could see with Jain's paper, something you didn't read clearly.

My main gripe with GOG is that people are unaware of the big picture, and do it because they can. It sets the industry back years.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Actually unless you had downloaded all the installers for your gog games and had them laying around. You'd pretty much still be in the same boat. Worse it would have probably taken you longer to notice and therefore made any recovery effort harder.

I have to download stuff on Steam too, y'know.

Steam:
game download
game install
play - gated by the Steam client

GOG:
game download
game install
play - not gated by a client program

[Mr. Rubber Ducky]

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Actually unless you had downloaded all the installers for your gog games and had them laying around. You'd pretty much still be in the same boat. Worse it would have probably taken you longer to notice and therefore made any recovery effort harder.

I have to download stuff on Steam too, y'know.

Steam:
game download
game install
play - gated by the Steam client

GOG:
game download
game install
play - gated by a client program

Some games are gated ex. Wither 3

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

rojimboo の投稿を引用：

My main gripe with GOG is that people are unaware of the big picture, and do it because they can. It sets the industry back years.

And you might also notice that only games that are a couple years old or older tend to show up there.

Of course, some of us are okay with that. Consider that I have to wait a couple years for stuff to drop to a price at which I'm willing to buy the game at all anyway.

[Start_Running]

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Actually unless you had downloaded all the installers for your gog games and had them laying around. You'd pretty much still be in the same boat. Worse it would have probably taken you longer to notice and therefore made any recovery effort harder.

I have to download stuff on Steam too, y'know.

Steam:
game download
game install
play - gated by the Steam client

For some games.

GOG:
game download
game install
play - not gated by a client program

True.. 0-DRM is 0-DRM and that policy is sort of why GoG's Libray lacks the breadth and scope of Steam or Origin.

But Steams DRM. I have had no issue with honestly. It's basically transparent . Sure it requires the Steam CLient.. said client also allows me to check, game guides, forums, and keep abreast of any new interesting games. To me the client provides more utility than inconvenience. and as said. Plenty games do not require the launcher at all.

[rojimboo]

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

rojimboo の投稿を引用：

My main gripe with GOG is that people are unaware of the big picture, and do it because they can. It sets the industry back years.

And you might also notice that only games that are a couple years old or older tend to show up there.

Of course, some of us are okay with that. Consider that I have to wait a couple years for stuff to drop to a price at which I'm willing to buy the game at all anyway.

Sure, it fills a niche market. It brings some left-over sales for older games, even Ubisoft realised this.

The problem is if those gamers start demanding recent games to go DRM-free too.

[Mr. Rubber Ducky]

DRM-free with new games?
Are you serious tho? It would be easier for those script kiddies. It would be hosted EVERYWHERE then. DRM is for a reason, to help cut down illegal stuff.

[Start_Running]

★ SIMON THE DUCKING W+M1 ★ の投稿を引用：

DRM-free with new games?
Are you serious tho? It would be easier for those script kiddies. It would be hosted EVERYWHERE then. DRM is for a reason, to help cut down illegal stuff.

It's efficacy is debateable but the fact is. a mid sized hurdle is more of an obstacle than no hurdle.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

But Steams DRM. I have had no issue with honestly. It's basically transparent . Sure it requires the Steam CLient.. said client also allows me to check, game guides, forums, and keep abreast of any new interesting games. To me the client provides more utility than inconvenience. and as said. Plenty games do not require the launcher at all.

1. please fix your quote formatting

2. And to me those features that you find convenient are ones that I have generally little use for, except maybe the forums -- but then again I've enjoyed games just fine for years with at most a gamefaqs walkthrough.

So, obviously, "your mileage may vary" and I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm only responsible for my own decisions.

rojimboo の投稿を引用：

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

And you might also notice that only games that are a couple years old or older tend to show up there.

Of course, some of us are okay with that. Consider that I have to wait a couple years for stuff to drop to a price at which I'm willing to buy the game at all anyway.

Sure, it fills a niche market. It brings some left-over sales for older games, even Ubisoft realised this.

The problem is if those gamers start demanding recent games to go DRM-free too.

I don't even play recent games, so I'm basically not even part of that market, haha.

[Start_Running]

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

2. And to me those features that you find convenient are ones that I have generally little use for, except maybe the forums -- but then again I've enjoyed games just fine for years with at most a gamefaqs walkthrough.

GameFaq's guides don't offer config tweaking tips and modding advice though. Well not always. Also the client's features can also be ignored. The client itself is light weight and has little to zero impact on your system performance.

I don't even play recent games, so I'm basically not even part of that market, haha.

But you play them when they are not recent..

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

2. And to me those features that you find convenient are ones that I have generally little use for, except maybe the forums -- but then again I've enjoyed games just fine for years with at most a gamefaqs walkthrough.

GameFaq's guides don't offer config tweaking tips and modding advice though. Well not always. Also the client's features can also be ignored. The client itself is light weight and has little to zero impact on your system performance.

Again, your needs are different from mine.

And the client itself still takes a little time to startup, and occasionally wastes time and bandwidth doing things like showing me ads and updating itself, and there are further inconveniences like having to jump through hoops just to keep a game from updating or to customize the installation locations of games.

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

I don't even play recent games, so I'm basically not even part of that market, haha.

But you play them when they are not recent..

So I'm part of that long tail of consumers that buys games when they're not recent.

If you're going to say "why don't you support the game by buying it earlier?", well, I'm not willing to pay $60 for that game -- and if I were, I would have already done that. I have a variety of options for paying more if I choose to do so, and I sometimes use them, if I specifically want to support that dev for example.

[Start_Running]

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

GameFaq's guides don't offer config tweaking tips and modding advice though. Well not always. Also the client's features can also be ignored. The client itself is light weight and has little to zero impact on your system performance.

Again, your needs are different from mine.

And the client itself still takes a little time to startup, and occasionally wastes time and bandwidth doing things like showing me ads and updating itself, and there are further inconveniences like having to jump through hoops just to keep a game from updating or to customize the installation locations of games.

Given your stated preference in games Updates shouldn't be an issue . I mean it's a point of note when I see even one update in my library. As for the start up. Meh. That only happens for the first game you launch, thereafter it's just the game. and as said, quite a few games can and do run without the launcher.

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

But you play them when they are not recent..

So I'm part of that long tail of consumers that buys games when they're not recent.

If you're going to say "why don't you support the game by buying it earlier?", well, I'm not willing to pay $60 for that game -- and if I were, I would have already done that. I have a variety of options for paying more if I choose to do so, and I sometimes use them, if I specifically want to support that dev for example.

No just pointing out you're part of the games digital market and in case you didn't notice that market is changing the way the publishers think about game sales and marketing.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

Again, your needs are different from mine.

And the client itself still takes a little time to startup, and occasionally wastes time and bandwidth doing things like showing me ads and updating itself, and there are further inconveniences like having to jump through hoops just to keep a game from updating or to customize the installation locations of games.

Given your stated preference in games Updates shouldn't be an issue . I mean it's a point of note when I see even one update in my library.

Just recently there was an update to Freedom Planet that changed the cutscenes somewhat, and not everyone agreed with the change.

Now, thankfully that just affected the cutscenes. But what if it were something that affected the gameplay?

You're a regular here so you've seen people making threads about how updates have broken their mods, reset their settings, and even made the game incompatible with their system.

Updates might not happen very often, but what if I want to play an older version of the game? What if I wanted to use Terraria 1.1's worldgen instead of the current one, for example?

And while it's an old change I'm talking about, the one I like to point to the most is freeware Spelunky going from version 0.99.9 to version 1 -- you could no longer drop one square onto spikes, and I refuse to play the game that way, so I still play Spelunky 0.99.9.

[Start_Running]

Quint the Globular Springtail の投稿を引用：

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

Given your stated preference in games Updates shouldn't be an issue . I mean it's a point of note when I see even one update in my library.

Just recently there was an update to Freedom Planet that changed the cutscenes somewhat, and not everyone agreed with the change.

Now, thankfully that just affected the cutscenes. But what if it were something that affected the gameplay?

That's what most updates affect though. As for freedom planet. Well that's sort of the developer's call yes?

You're a regular here so you've seen people making threads about how updates have broken their mods, reset their settings, and even made the game incompatible with their system.

Mods are unlicensed 3rd party content. The developers are under no constraint to consider them when updating and improving the performance of their product.. And again. That only happens with newer games. DOn't see anything breaking my DOom3 mods, nope. :)

The idea of updates breaking saves is even more rare. Devs typically make a firm effort to keep save data cross compatible, for that very reason. And for changing system reqs, well that happenbs. I have one game where that was the case, dropped support for my OS.

Honestly I think the majority of those threads are suspect.

Updates might not happen very often, but what if I want to play an older version of the game? What if I wanted to use Terraria 1.1's worldgen instead of the current one, for example?

That's an interesting point, but in that case you might just ask the developer nicely to make it available. I mean take Defenders of the Valley. They recently did a DX Update that ups the graphics , adds story and everything. Doesn't work with Windows XP. Lo and behold though, the devs made sure there was an option to run the old non DX version as well. So while they work to fix the XP bug.. I can still enjoy the game. Yay.


I think gamers need to rethink how they approach relationships with developers. TIt's either gimme, gimme, gimme or, adversarial. Be surprised what you can do if you just politely ask or talk to the devs/publishers.

And while it's an old change I'm talking about, the one I like to point to the most is freeware Spelunky going from version 0.99.9 to version 1 -- you could no longer drop one square onto spikes, and I refuse to play the game that way, so I still play Spelunky 0.99.9.

This is a good thing but You understand why this would not fly on steam so much. It makes the bookkeeping and error trackingt a headache.