Do you believe in aliens? 👽

[Mongoose]

what has you convinced or skeptical?

[crunchyfrog]

引用自 spammerz：

引用自 RRW359：

Many groups know about the outside world and those aren't listed on any official record of uncontacted tribes. Just because a lot of people confuse impoverished groups with uncontacted ones doesn't mean they are the same thing. If you think the claims are unsubstantiated take it up with the UN.

The UN is a joke. like the Hague, just a facade that cherry picks.
I find it laughable that they think they know how many people are in the world.

There are tribes in deep jungles that will instantly attack any westerner they see, word gets around even in remote jungles. They are considered to be "uncontacted tribes" by officials. All tribes trade, other than possibly the Sentinelese but, I think even they get aid from India. Long time since I looked that up, need to look into it again. I know that they are a protected island by India rule. India generally leaves them well alone.

That's easy because you're missing a major point.

Ther ARE eareas of the world where we don't know what's in there. But we can assume quite cloesly.

The fact is if we don't know in detail what's in there, we can look at EVIDENCE - left over stuff.

And the fact remains if there were LOADS of people living therein , the evidence of them marching around of just living would be apparent.

So with srespect, we DO know and can can give a pretty damned good assessment of how many people there are.

And in any case, even if ther were say, 1% out on however many billions it is now, so what? Does that it's completely useless and should be thrown out as you seem to suggest?

Of course not, that's bloody stupid. It dones't change anything meaningful.

[Χάρης]

of course I do.

[spammerz]

引用自 RRW359：

引用自 spammerz：

The UN is a joke. like the Hague, just a facade that cherry picks.
I find it laughable that they think they know how many people are in the world.

There are tribes in deep jungles that will instantly attack any westerner they see, word gets around even in remote jungles. They are considered to be "uncontacted tribes" by officials. All tribes trade, other than possibly the Sentinelese but, I think even they get aid from India. Long time since I looked that up, need to look into it again. I know that they are a protected island by India rule. India generally leaves them well alone.

Some don't attack others but are found when they get displaced by our activity. The Sentinelese don't get aid and nobody is legally allowed to go near the island anymore.

My point in all this is that even if there are only a couple, if there are places in the world that people can't think it's a "paradox" that we don't know about aliens when rare as they may be there are groups on Earth that don't know about the rest of us, or at least have a VERY incomplete picture of life outside their part of the world. Whether due to just lack of interest or rules they set up to preserve cultures both are just as plausible for us to not know about Aliens as it is for those people to not know about us.

I found an interesting article about the Sentinelese. They were not so much getting aid but, boats of scientists and tourists were leaving gifts for them up to very recent times. I knew they were getting some kind of "aid", I just thought it was the government doing it.

As for the Fermi Paradox, it is mostly referring to a tech tree R&D problem. There is a level of tech that could be found that wipes out that civilisation. e.g. When human morons figured out splitting the atom, they had no idea if that would start an unstoppable chain reaction in our one and only atmosphere... they did it anyway. That time they got lucky and only killed a load of civilians and contaminated land and the atmosphere with radiation on a relatively small scale considering what could have happened.

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

引用自 spammerz：

引用自 RRW359：

Some don't attack others but are found when they get displaced by our activity. The Sentinelese don't get aid and nobody is legally allowed to go near the island anymore.

My point in all this is that even if there are only a couple, if there are places in the world that people can't think it's a "paradox" that we don't know about aliens when rare as they may be there are groups on Earth that don't know about the rest of us, or at least have a VERY incomplete picture of life outside their part of the world. Whether due to just lack of interest or rules they set up to preserve cultures both are just as plausible for us to not know about Aliens as it is for those people to not know about us.

I found an interesting article about the Sentinelese. They were not so much getting aid but, boats of scientists and tourists were leaving gifts for them up to very recent times. I knew they were getting some kind of "aid", I just thought it was the government doing it.

As for the Fermi Paradox, it is mostly referring to a tech tree R&D problem. There is a level of tech that could be found that wipes out that civilisation. e.g. When human morons figured out splitting the atom, they had no idea if that would start an unstoppable chain reaction in our one and only atmosphere... they did it anyway. That time they got lucky and only killed a load of civilians and contaminated land and the atmosphere with radiation on a relatively small scale considering what could have happened.

Not 'they'. Elbert Einstein told the general in charge of Project Manhattan during the first test that it could cause a True-Fusion reaction which we speculate still to this very day that the sun can only do. Had it happened like that the energy would consume matter to keep expanding till it detonated, in this case had it happened the energy wave would of consumed up to 30 miles of the surface of the earth. The irony in this is that the same guy that helped build it, Elbert also ironically told the general of the unseen effects. Heck there is a game on this called Dysfunctional Systems that two nations in a different dimension of earth tested one and it basically obliterated the planet because they failed the proper heat containment, the thing that was required was discovered later on was the lack of heat needed to propagate a proper true fusion needed for the reactions stars do.

[spammerz]

引用自 crunchyfrog：

引用自 spammerz：

The UN is a joke. like the Hague, just a facade that cherry picks.
I find it laughable that they think they know how many people are in the world.

There are tribes in deep jungles that will instantly attack any westerner they see, word gets around even in remote jungles. They are considered to be "uncontacted tribes" by officials. All tribes trade, other than possibly the Sentinelese but, I think even they get aid from India. Long time since I looked that up, need to look into it again. I know that they are a protected island by India rule. India generally leaves them well alone.

That's easy because you're missing a major point.

Ther ARE eareas of the world where we don't know what's in there. But we can assume quite cloesly.

The fact is if we don't know in detail what's in there, we can look at EVIDENCE - left over stuff.

And the fact remains if there were LOADS of people living therein , the evidence of them marching around of just living would be apparent.

So with srespect, we DO know and can can give a pretty damned good assessment of how many people there are.

No, it is blatant guess work and assumptions, not fact. Go hang out with the homeless for a while and talk to them about if they exist on the system. Nobody knows how many people are homeless in just one city the size of London (population size approximately 10 million) never mind the rest of the world. Nobody is head counting in remote regions of the world. People in remote areas don't have a birth & death register, nor did the West until fairly recent history for that matter.

You cant look into every corner of a vast jungle for evidence, that will take forever and be nigh impossible. I can stay in one area for a month and leave no trace, natives can also do that.

[RRW359]

引用自 spammerz：

引用自 RRW359：

Some don't attack others but are found when they get displaced by our activity. The Sentinelese don't get aid and nobody is legally allowed to go near the island anymore.

My point in all this is that even if there are only a couple, if there are places in the world that people can't think it's a "paradox" that we don't know about aliens when rare as they may be there are groups on Earth that don't know about the rest of us, or at least have a VERY incomplete picture of life outside their part of the world. Whether due to just lack of interest or rules they set up to preserve cultures both are just as plausible for us to not know about Aliens as it is for those people to not know about us.

I found an interesting article about the Sentinelese. They were not so much getting aid but, boats of scientists and tourists were leaving gifts for them up to very recent times. I knew they were getting some kind of "aid", I just thought it was the government doing it.

As for the Fermi Paradox, it is mostly referring to a tech tree R&D problem. There is a level of tech that could be found that wipes out that civilisation. e.g. When human morons figured out splitting the atom, they had no idea if that would start an unstoppable chain reaction in our one and only atmosphere... they did it anyway. That time they got lucky and only killed a load of civilians and contaminated land and the atmosphere with radiation on a relatively small scale considering what could have happened.

You might be thinking of other Andaman tribes like the Jarawas. They have a weird history with aid after contact.

You're thinking of the great filter, which is a proposed solution to the (nonexistant) Paradox. Supposedly the Fermi Paradox is that if there is so much alien life, why haven't we detected it? Despite me not yet hearing a reason they would have to contact us. I've heard people say that it's because we're looking that it's a Paradox, but (assuming radio is the end-all of communications and they haven't created something better we can't detect), a radio signal would have to be pointed directly at us and be fairly powerful for us to detect it, meaning they would still need to go out of their way to find us. As for visual telescopes, one of the features of the JWST is that it should be able to detect the shape of continents on exoplanets. If that's the pinnacle of our telescope technology it's no wonder why we can't see anything.

[Jonathan Sensei]

My answer depends on what we're defining as "aliens".

Xenomorphs? Nah.

Stereotypical green ayylmaos? That's cap my guy.

Microscopic organisms living inside an asteroid somewhere "out there"? Yes, aliens do exist.

[Devsman]

引用自 Cid：

引用自 spammerz：

The only thing that would be of interest to them would be akin to us having a time machine, to see how people lived in the Stone or Bronze Age etc. A live action museum piece of curiosity.

Yep. If civilizations more advanced than we are happen to be out there, I always figured they'd have some "look but don't touch" agreement like the Underdeveloped Planet Preservation Pact from Star Ocean.

https://starocean.fandom.com/wiki/Underdeveloped_Planet_Preservation_Pact

So observing from a distance is okay, but aside from extreme circumstances, no interacting with us or making their presence known until they decide we're ready.

Eh

I think being able to reach other system is only an indication of certain types of advancement.

Like what if they have starships but still don't have an internet, or democracy.

[crunchyfrog]

引用自 spammerz：

引用自 crunchyfrog：

That's easy because you're missing a major point.

Ther ARE eareas of the world where we don't know what's in there. But we can assume quite cloesly.

The fact is if we don't know in detail what's in there, we can look at EVIDENCE - left over stuff.

And the fact remains if there were LOADS of people living therein , the evidence of them marching around of just living would be apparent.

So with srespect, we DO know and can can give a pretty damned good assessment of how many people there are.

No, it is blatant guess work and assumptions, not fact. Go hang out with the homeless for a while and talk to them about if they exist on the system. Nobody knows how many people are homeless in just one city the size of London (population size approximately 10 million) never mind the rest of the world. Nobody is head counting in remote regions of the world. People in remote areas don't have a birth & death register, nor did the West until fairly recent history for that matter.

You cant look into every corner of a vast jungle for evidence, that will take forever and be nigh impossible. I can stay in one area for a month and leave no trace, natives can also do that.

No, you're missing the point.

As I said we KNOW to within a certain degree of variance.

What you are not answering is of what difference does it make? If we're ONE out or several tens of thousands, what does that demonstrate according to you?

That science is wrong or something?

[spammerz]

引用自 RRW359：

引用自 spammerz：

I found an interesting article about the Sentinelese. They were not so much getting aid but, boats of scientists and tourists were leaving gifts for them up to very recent times. I knew they were getting some kind of "aid", I just thought it was the government doing it.

As for the Fermi Paradox, it is mostly referring to a tech tree R&D problem. There is a level of tech that could be found that wipes out that civilisation. e.g. When human morons figured out splitting the atom, they had no idea if that would start an unstoppable chain reaction in our one and only atmosphere... they did it anyway. That time they got lucky and only killed a load of civilians and contaminated land and the atmosphere with radiation on a relatively small scale considering what could have happened.

You might be thinking of other Andaman tribes like the Jarawas. They have a weird history with aid after contact.

You're thinking of the great filter, which is a proposed solution to the (nonexistant) Paradox. Supposedly the Fermi Paradox is that if there is so much alien life, why haven't we detected it? Despite me not yet hearing a reason they would have to contact us. I've heard people say that it's because we're looking that it's a Paradox, but (assuming radio is the end-all of communications and they haven't created something better we can't detect), a radio signal would have to be pointed directly at us and be fairly powerful for us to detect it, meaning they would still need to go out of their way to find us. As for visual telescopes, one of the features of the JWST is that it should be able to detect the shape of continents on exoplanets. If that's the pinnacle of our telescope technology it's no wonder why we can't see anything.

No it is the Sentinelese. The authorities only blocked access to the island in recent history (possibly around 1990's). In saying that, there was a suicidal religious nut that decided to visit the island just a few years ago, I don't think the Sentinelese like bible basher's much... he did not survive the encounter. The Sentinelese don't always attack people but 99.5% of the time they do.


I have only heard the subject used in lectures on the Fermi Paradox but yeah, the great filter is part of it.

The message issue is that space is huge, there are a ridiculous amount of places to target in the hope to detect a signal. That is supposing that we even have the tech to detect such signals, should such signals even exist. When it comes to distance and our limited tech, it would take quite some time to send and receive messages over X light years distances. Unlike TV sci-fi where they have no lag in real time messages travelling light years instantly.

Humans have only recently created space tech. MW 18014 was a German V-2 rocket test launched in 1944. It was the first man-made object to reach "outer space".
The first man made object to actually go into orbit was the USSR's Sputnik I satellite in 1957. The SETI Institute was not even created until the mid 1980's. People need to keep that in mind when wondering where are all the alien signals are.

The JWST could end up catching unexpected events. It would be hilarious if the first thing it sees in a UFO diner parking lot on a galactic highway route. Turns out that we are backwater hicks in the middle of S creek nowhere near anywhere.

[spammerz]

引用自 Devsman：

Like what if they have starships but still don't have an internet, or democracy.

hu? ... but we don't even have democracy.
I hope they don't have Facebook or Twit etc. they are supposed to be more advanced than us if they have starship tech level.

[Jonathan Sensei]

引用自 spammerz：

[...]
It would be hilarious if the first thing it sees in a UFO diner parking lot on a galactic highway route. Turns out that we are backwater hicks in the middle of S creek nowhere near anywhere.

The Strugatsky brothers would be laughing in their graves if that really is the case.

[spammerz]

引用自 crunchyfrog：

引用自 spammerz：

No, it is blatant guess work and assumptions, not fact. Go hang out with the homeless for a while and talk to them about if they exist on the system. Nobody knows how many people are homeless in just one city the size of London (population size approximately 10 million) never mind the rest of the world. Nobody is head counting in remote regions of the world. People in remote areas don't have a birth & death register, nor did the West until fairly recent history for that matter.

You cant look into every corner of a vast jungle for evidence, that will take forever and be nigh impossible. I can stay in one area for a month and leave no trace, natives can also do that.

No, you're missing the point.

As I said we KNOW to within a certain degree of variance.

What you are not answering is of what difference does it make? If we're ONE out or several tens of thousands, what does that demonstrate according to you?

That science is wrong or something?

Clearly, it demonstrates that you don't know what you think you know because, what you are told are "facts" are actually just blind guesses made by "official people" that get paid too much public tax money to BS the public.

[crunchyfrog]

引用自 spammerz：

引用自 crunchyfrog：

No, you're missing the point.

As I said we KNOW to within a certain degree of variance.

What you are not answering is of what difference does it make? If we're ONE out or several tens of thousands, what does that demonstrate according to you?

That science is wrong or something?

Clearly, it demonstrates that you don't know what you think you know because, what you are told are "facts" are actually just blind guesses made by "official people" that get paid too much public tax money to BS the public.

Then answer the question please.

What relevance is this?

If I believe these figures (which I have NOT said I do so stop asserting that ♥♥♥♥), or I believe they're not accurate, so what?

What does it demonstrate please?

Are you saying it shows science is wrong? What?How can these figures being wrong to this degree do anything? Please explain your claim.

[spammerz]

引用自 Jonathan：

引用自 spammerz：

[...]
It would be hilarious if the first thing it sees in a UFO diner parking lot on a galactic highway route. Turns out that we are backwater hicks in the middle of S creek nowhere near anywhere.

The Strugatsky brothers would be laughing in their graves if that really is the case.

Russia had some great Sci-fi writers. A lot of the Twilight Zone and Outer Limits were written be Russians.