Nihilism

[Falco]

Opinions?

[Gus the Crocodile]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Why the initial story of the small town? Is that to make an appeal to pathos, to emotion? What does that story have anything to do with whether morality is justifiable?

Nihilism isn't about pointless destruction or making you cry over a sob story. Nihilism makes the argument that morality (moral values, notions of good/evil) are unjustifiable on any basis, that value systems are ultimately arbitrary. You've made the argument that the only thing preventing you from destroying a small town is someone's tender feelings for it. Ok, so what?

I see that you are preoccupied with your values being considered irrelevant by a passing Nihilist. I think personifying Nihilism is a mistake because the ideology is highly abstract and it is all too easy to create a simplified (and ultimately incorrect) "evil" Nihilistic character to make your arguments against. The ideology is far more subtle than that.

There's nothing subtle about "morality is unjustifiable on any basis". It's a sledgehammer of banality.

[TwisterCat]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por TwisterCat:

*my original post*

Publicado originalmente por TwisterCat:

philosophy is worthless if it's not built around something humans can feel, it's machine logic.

Plato's philosophy was concerned with "ideal forms," that the truth of the world was not material, but could be found in the ideal forms in the mind. Plato was of course the most influential philosopher from which all modern philosophy sprang. So you aren't a Platonist, ok that's fine. I think your comment is a little ridiculous, but whatever.

Publicado originalmente por TwisterCat:

In the real world, nihilism doesn't work, the human brain isn't built for nihilist philosophy

The mystery of the brain solved in one sentence. Brilliant.

Publicado originalmente por TwisterCat:

what gives you the right to define the value of many, if not even the brain is built around your philosophy? That is textbook narcissism, I define value as building something to invoke a positive chemical reaction in the brain, instead of discomfort, and you say the it's worth the equivalent of literal suffering and hellish pain, because it all goes away in the end anyways.

You write of rights (governmental? idk), about how your brain is not built for Nihilism, you even discuss my mental state, and continue to mis-characterize my posts. I sense this is all a distraction tactic.

Publicado originalmente por TwisterCat:

Emotion must always be accounted for when designing a philosophy, even if it's just a pointless chemical reaction in the brain.

I believe Nihilism does not exclude passion. Do you feel that Nihilism neglected to account for emotions?

I see you ignore the part where literal nihilism is discredited as a mental illness, or how implications that the world has no meaning would technically make burning down anything perfectly fine, and equal equal to the supposed "best case scenario", a wise choice, as that's where nihilism is at it's weakest, and most logically invalid.

There are no ideal forms of nihilism, nothing more ideal than traditional, perferably christian, values, the same ones that built a large portion of the United States and Canada, the world's finest nations. To try something "new" and "meaningless" would be ideological suicide, it makes no practical sense, not even in war.

Again, this is common sense, if every part of your brain thought everything meaningless, it'd be considered mental illness, especially the frontal cortex. It's psychopathy, and while no longer in the DSM, it's still widely regarded as a cognition issue in the brain.

It's an aggressive tactic, there's simply no other way to win against nihilist philosophy, other than saying what it is, word for word, a belief where positive has no meaning, at all, and negativity is viewed as an equivalent.

I do. In the real world, specifically. Passion, if anything, discredits nihilism, as it shows value, which isn't even supposed to exist in the nihilist's mind, the meaning of value is unfounded, which makes passion an invalid emotion, it's a glitch in the matrix!

Nihilism parodies itself when you talk about emotion, and acknowledge it. Not only that, most nihilists will say the human mind is weak, and incapable of certain knowledge, yet they'll give a 100% certainty to the idea of god being a human-created belief, despite by their own words, saying certainty is impossible. God would objectively discredit their idea of value being false

[Volfogg]

Gotta admit, this whole edgy indoctrination is starting to getting tiresome.

[TwisterCat]

Publicado originalmente por Volfogg:

Gotta admit, this whole edgy indoctrination is starting to getting tiresome.

It is. Unfortunately, we can't allow anyone to define their own values anymore, value is apparently definitive, or it doesn't exist at all.

[𝕎𝔸𝕃𝕋𝔼ℝ]

Publicado originalmente por Volfogg:

Gotta admit, this whole edgy indoctrination is starting to getting tiresome.

Why even bother reading it? Hedonism is the way to go.

[Volfogg]

Publicado originalmente por 𝕎𝔸𝕃𝕋𝔼ℝ:

Publicado originalmente por Volfogg:

Gotta admit, this whole edgy indoctrination is starting to getting tiresome.

Why even bother reading it? Hedonism is the way to go.

Dunno. Maybe I'm masochist on some level, because as I read this tl;dr worthy stuff I get physically nauseated from all that psycho-babble.

[Wisman]

Good in small amounts, disastrous for society.

[L1qu1dator]

Publicado originalmente por TwisterCat:

value is apparently definitive, or it doesn't exist at all.

No way, you finally got it...?

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por Gus the Crocodile:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Why the initial story of the small town? Is that to make an appeal to pathos, to emotion? What does that story have anything to do with whether morality is justifiable?

Nihilism isn't about pointless destruction or making you cry over a sob story. Nihilism makes the argument that morality (moral values, notions of good/evil) are unjustifiable on any basis, that value systems are ultimately arbitrary. You've made the argument that the only thing preventing you from destroying a small town is someone's tender feelings for it. Ok, so what?

I see that you are preoccupied with your values being considered irrelevant by a passing Nihilist. I think personifying Nihilism is a mistake because the ideology is highly abstract and it is all too easy to create a simplified (and ultimately incorrect) "evil" Nihilistic character to make your arguments against. The ideology is far more subtle than that.

There's nothing subtle about "morality is unjustifiable on any basis". It's a sledgehammer of banality.

"A sledgehammer of banality." Humorous with nice phrasing, I like it.

[DirtSeed]

I think nihilism is an excuse for someone to sit on their ass all day on the computer and bring people down for having fun.

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por TwisterCat:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Plato's philosophy was concerned with "ideal forms," that the truth of the world was not material, but could be found in the ideal forms in the mind. Plato was of course the most influential philosopher from which all modern philosophy sprang. So you aren't a Platonist, ok that's fine. I think your comment is a little ridiculous, but whatever.

The mystery of the brain solved in one sentence. Brilliant.

You write of rights (governmental? idk), about how your brain is not built for Nihilism, you even discuss my mental state, and continue to mis-characterize my posts. I sense this is all a distraction tactic.

I believe Nihilism does not exclude passion. Do you feel that Nihilism neglected to account for emotions?

I see you ignore the part where literal nihilism is discredited as a mental illness, or how implications that the world has no meaning would technically make burning down anything perfectly fine, and equal equal to the supposed "best case scenario", a wise choice, as that's where nihilism is at it's weakest, and most logically invalid.

There are no ideal forms of nihilism, nothing more ideal than traditional, perferably christian, values, the same ones that built a large portion of the United States and Canada, the world's finest nations. To try something "new" and "meaningless" would be ideological suicide, it makes no practical sense, not even in war.

Again, this is common sense, if every part of your brain thought everything meaningless, it'd be considered mental illness, especially the frontal cortex. It's psychopathy, and while no longer in the DSM, it's still widely regarded as a cognition issue in the brain.

It's an aggressive tactic, there's simply no other way to win against nihilist philosophy, other than saying what it is, word for word, a belief where positive has no meaning, at all, and negativity is viewed as an equivalent.

I do. In the real world, specifically. Passion, if anything, discredits nihilism, as it shows value, which isn't even supposed to exist in the nihilist's mind, the meaning of value is unfounded, which makes passion an invalid emotion, it's a glitch in the matrix!

Nihilism parodies itself when you talk about emotion, and acknowledge it. Not only that, most nihilists will say the human mind is weak, and incapable of certain knowledge, yet they'll give a 100% certainty to the idea of god being a human-created belief, despite by their own words, saying certainty is impossible. God would objectively discredit their idea of value being false

I ignored your quasi-psych diagnosis because it's lame. You are describing sociopath behavior and not Nihilism. Plus, all those "evil" things like burning down stuff is already happening in the world in the name of moral righteousness. So why are you harping on Nihilism?

Nihilism doesn't invalidate passion or emotion. The belief system that does that is called apathy. The rest of your post is difficult to understand. What did you mean about the USA and Canada? And the whole God thing is ludicrous.

[Holografix]

I assume this thread is done? I know I am not the OP but I appreciate everyone participating in this difficult topic. Thx ppl.

[Masque]

I'm enjoying the exchange here, despite having nothing to add.

tl;dr? Why'd you click the topic in the first place? Go play.

[crunchyfrog]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

No, that's not what I said. at all.

I believe what is DEMONSTRATED. Not just what my mind tells me, but what can be checked, peer reviewed and corroborated by others. That's the point.

Now, if you are going down the "matrix" like route of saying for all we know we could be brains in a vat and what I experience is just what I'm fed, then I don't care, because there's NOTHING I can do about that, so I may as well carry on.

CRUNCHY,

I BELIEVE YOU ARE MISTAKING MY WRITING FOR YOUR OWN?
I KNOW THAT WHAT I WROTE IN MY PREVIOUS POST: "You have no choice but to believe your mind own mind, crunchy," IS NOT WHAT YOU "SAID." WHY DO YOU INSIST THAT YOU ARE 'SAYING' WHAT I AM WRITING? OR THAT I AM MISCONSTRUING WHAT YOU ARE "SAYING" WITH MY POSTS?

Clarify this, pls.

Well then, please tell me where I've believed my own lies, like you claimed.

I haven't said anything that is a lie. So please demonstrate evidence for this assertion of yours.

[TwisterCat]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por TwisterCat:

I see you ignore the part where literal nihilism is discredited as a mental illness, or how implications that the world has no meaning would technically make burning down anything perfectly fine, and equal equal to the supposed "best case scenario", a wise choice, as that's where nihilism is at it's weakest, and most logically invalid.

There are no ideal forms of nihilism, nothing more ideal than traditional, perferably christian, values, the same ones that built a large portion of the United States and Canada, the world's finest nations. To try something "new" and "meaningless" would be ideological suicide, it makes no practical sense, not even in war.

Again, this is common sense, if every part of your brain thought everything meaningless, it'd be considered mental illness, especially the frontal cortex. It's psychopathy, and while no longer in the DSM, it's still widely regarded as a cognition issue in the brain.

It's an aggressive tactic, there's simply no other way to win against nihilist philosophy, other than saying what it is, word for word, a belief where positive has no meaning, at all, and negativity is viewed as an equivalent.

I do. In the real world, specifically. Passion, if anything, discredits nihilism, as it shows value, which isn't even supposed to exist in the nihilist's mind, the meaning of value is unfounded, which makes passion an invalid emotion, it's a glitch in the matrix!

Nihilism parodies itself when you talk about emotion, and acknowledge it. Not only that, most nihilists will say the human mind is weak, and incapable of certain knowledge, yet they'll give a 100% certainty to the idea of god being a human-created belief, despite by their own words, saying certainty is impossible. God would objectively discredit their idea of value being false

I ignored your quasi-psych diagnosis because it's lame. You are describing sociopath behavior and not Nihilism. Plus, all those "evil" things like burning down stuff is already happening in the world in the name of moral righteousness. So why are you harping on Nihilism?

Nihilism doesn't invalidate passion or emotion. The belief system that does that is called apathy. The rest of your post is difficult to understand. What did you mean about the USA and Canada? And the whole God thing is ludicrous.

This is nothing short of the response I'd expect from a career politician, except just on a forum. Dodge the question, dodge the accusation, say the antithesis without backing it up with any logic, and try to make a getaway when logical paradoxes contradict the entire philosophy.