Nihilism

[Falco]

Opinions?

[Xautos]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por chewbachman:

I mentioned linking a more scholarly article. So I guess I will. Here is a link from the Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Contribution is by invitation and contributors are recognized and leading international specialists. It is a peer reviewed publication. Read if you like.

https://iep.utm.edu/nihilism/

...I did notice that the quotes you posted mentioned that Nihilism tends towards destruction, or to hatred. I believe it is always described that way because since it refuses meaning, it acts as an acid upon the world.

Perhaps a container for this acid has yet to be created. Or maybe Nihilism is only ever supposed to be a limit-event, like a heat mirage at the horizon of the desert. Something visible, yet unreachable. From the posts I've read of yours, it seems like Nihilism only appears at the limit of your ideas. Something looming, but not actually present.

You'll notice the consistency of the users bias against nihilism to make it to be a truly monstrous thing. The thing that user doesn't seem or want to understand is that nihilists do not care and will not care for the idea of destruction, or hatred or a refusal of meaning or anything else, they don't accept any of it, which by itself is not destructive or a manner of hatred. It's a state of mind that a nihilist just doesn't care and has no positive or negative inclination to the subject no matter what, it's an void empty of all those motivating emotions and silly reasons that humans come up with to justify what they can't understand.

When stripped away of all that, the hard facts are that once a human has seen past all the BS we call a life and the distractions like a job, a family, friends, money, power, car, bird watching and so forth, there is nothing behind it, it's just an empty pointless existence. That is the root of what a nihilist sees, that's the reason they act the way they do, they just don't care.

This is why the user is trying to back it up with apparent "facts", but these aren't facts, they are opinions and everyone has theirs no matter how good their qualifications are. Just how much of that is mumbo-jumbo and how much is projecting is a whole other matter on the subject. For one to really understand a nihilist, one must become a nihilist. I don't mean to pretend to be one for the subject of whatever paper they might have written as manufactured proof, i mean the real thing.

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por Xautos:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

...I did notice that the quotes you posted mentioned that Nihilism tends towards destruction, or to hatred. I believe it is always described that way because since it refuses meaning, it acts as an acid upon the world.

Perhaps a container for this acid has yet to be created. Or maybe Nihilism is only ever supposed to be a limit-event, like a heat mirage at the horizon of the desert. Something visible, yet unreachable. From the posts I've read of yours, it seems like Nihilism only appears at the limit of your ideas. Something looming, but not actually present.

You'll notice the consistency of the users bias against nihilism to make it to be a truly monstrous thing. The thing that user doesn't seem or want to understand is that nihilists do not care and will not care for the idea of destruction, or hatred or a refusal of meaning or anything else, they don't accept any of it, which by itself is not destructive or a manner of hatred. It's a state of mind that a nihilist just doesn't care and has no positive or negative inclination to the subject no matter what, it's an void empty of all those motivating emotions and silly reasons that humans come up with to justify what they can't understand.

I spent a lot of time posting about the differences between Nihilism and the ideologies that are confused with it. (Please see post #72)

Your description above most closely resembles 'apathy' which is the condition of being "without feeling" or "passion-less." Nihilism doesn't exclude passion.

Publicado originalmente por Xautos:

When stripped away of all that, the hard facts are that once a human has seen past all the BS we call a life and the distractions like a job, a family, friends, money, power, car, bird watching and so forth, there is nothing behind it, it's just an empty pointless existence. That is the root of what a nihilist sees, that's the reason they act the way they do, they just don't care.

Again, your description most closely resembles someone who sees or believes that social reality is a falsehood. This is known as Cynicism, an ideology that disdains society or social norms because they are artifice.

Publicado originalmente por Xautos:

This is why the user is trying to back it up with apparent "facts", but these aren't facts, they are opinions and everyone has theirs no matter how good their qualifications are. Just how much of that is mumbo-jumbo and how much is projecting is a whole other matter on the subject. For one to really understand a nihilist, one must become a nihilist. I don't mean to pretend to be one for the subject of whatever paper they might have written as manufactured proof, i mean the real thing.

Nihilism is an ideology. This is a fact. It has certain tenets. This is a fact. In other words, there is no need to 'become' The Batman, to understand the idea of The Batman. I could go on, but I think you get the point.

[Ailes]

As far as god-belief goes I always say I tend to be agnostic, so what nihilism seems to be strikes me as just as arrogant as anyone claiming to know the/a greater purpose to life. We are humans, and we only know so much. To some degree we will always be limited by our mind and body, some things we will never know for certain. A nihilist is free to believe that there is no sense in life and all that, but he too is just a tiny dot in the universe that escapes his full grasp eventually. One way or the other rejecting all morals and ethics seems stupid unless causing chaos in society is what you are trying to achieve. We need these things.

[Ailes]

Publicado originalmente por The Tops:

Publicado originalmente por Ailes:

As far as god-belief goes I always say I tend to be agnostic, so what nihilism seems to be strikes me as just as arrogant as anyone claiming to know the/a greater purpose to life. We are humans, and we only know so much. To some degree we will always be limited by our mind and body, some things we will never know for certain. A nihilist is free to believe that there is no sense in life and all that, but he too is just a tiny dot in the universe that escapes his full grasp eventually. One way or the other rejecting all morals and ethics seems stupid unless causing chaos in society is what you are trying to achieve. We need these things.

Nihilists don't claim to know of a greater purpose - they think there is no purpose. They don't reject all morals or ethics either, they just think they are baseless and meaningless. There are also different forms of nihilism, not all of them touch on morals, such as existential nihilism which just focuses on the meaninglessness of life. I assume the whole thing about being a tiny, insignificant dot in the universe is part of the reason people adopt the philosophy in the first place.

That said, I am not a nihilist, and I do agree most people that have their mind made up on things that are unknowable are arrogant.

I was meaning the same. Nihilists seem to be saying: "There is no purpose." My answer to them would be: "How can you know for sure?" They are just humans. Anything involving humans and the greater scope of things has some measure of uncertainty.

I believe we are fairly insignificant dots in the universe, but that doesn't mean I generelly reject us serving some purpose or another. Even if there is some grand plan, some deeper meaning, chances are that none of us will know in our lifetime, that we will die before humankind will find an answer to that, if ever at all. And if there is no plan and meaning we can still make the best of it while we are here. Nihilism appears deconstructive to me. It doesn't sound like it's gonna help us with anything.

Discussing morals and ethics to be baseless and meaningless seems tiresome and equally pointless. I guess one has to be a strong cynic or pessimist to adopt a nihilistic point of view. I prefer to emphasize the unknowledgeable and try to be contend with the fairly irrelevant and tiny life that I have on this rock.

[Holografix]

People are all over the place in discussing the topic. Some of my favorite "arrow missing it's mark" moments on the thread:

I tend to be agnostic, so what nihilism seems to be strikes me as just as arrogant as anyone claiming to know the/a greater purpose to life.

A nihilist is just a tiny dot in the universe that escapes his full grasp eventually.

rejecting all morals and ethics seems stupid

most people that have their mind made up on things that are unknowable are arrogant.

Just how much of that is mumbo-jumbo and how much is projecting is a whole other matter on the subject. For one to really understand a nihilist, one must become a nihilist.

Its a mechanism for the lazy, heavily indecisive weakminded

You've trolled the world so hard that you've unwittingly trolled yourself. Complete trollception.

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por Fred Durst:

Don't get me wrong, I truly do admire your dedication.

When I grow up, I can only dream of trolling on that level.

It takes grit. And a boundless capacity for irony. Keep looking 2 the sky, Durst.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9olJT8iolxI

[crunchyfrog]

This is all sounding a bit "no true scotsman" fallacy to me.

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

This is all sounding a bit "no true scotsman" fallacy to me.

To thine own mind be true, crunchy.

[crunchyfrog]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

This is all sounding a bit "no true scotsman" fallacy to me.

To thine own mind be true, crunchy.

Well no. That's not how reality works I'm afraid.

What I was referring to is the explanations of nihilism are great and all, but I got the impression some of the comments here are getting a bit "you're not a REAL nihilist because you don't do this".

That's what I meant.

[beBent]

This was a fun read, ngl.

I hope to see more philosophy topic on this forum.

[Gus the Crocodile]

There are no doubt some isolated concepts that could be said to be somewhat nihilistic that have value - like an acknowledgement that life carries no inherent 'purpose' and we must create our own, or questioning the idea of objective truth, or the idea that Earth or humans aren't fundamentally 'special', for lack of a better word.

But beyond that, declaring the nonexistence/meaninglessness/pointlessness of things largely seems like it's at best an utter waste of time, and at worst quite harmful.

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

To thine own mind be true, crunchy.

Well no. That's not how reality works I'm afraid.

What I was referring to is the explanations of nihilism are great and all, but I got the impression some of the comments here are getting a bit "you're not a REAL nihilist because you don't do this".

You are completely free to believe your lying eyes, crunchy.

[crunchyfrog]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Well no. That's not how reality works I'm afraid.

What I was referring to is the explanations of nihilism are great and all, but I got the impression some of the comments here are getting a bit "you're not a REAL nihilist because you don't do this".

You are completely free to believe your lying eyes, crunchy.

Lying eyes, eh?

Tell me then, what part of critical thinking, the scientific method, and demonstrable fact can be considered lies?

[Holografix]

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

You are completely free to believe your lying eyes, crunchy.

Lying eyes, eh?

Tell me then, what part of critical thinking, the scientific method, and demonstrable fact can be considered lies?

You have no choice but to believe your own mind, crunchy.

[crunchyfrog]

Publicado originalmente por Holografix:

Publicado originalmente por crunchyfrog:

Lying eyes, eh?

Tell me then, what part of critical thinking, the scientific method, and demonstrable fact can be considered lies?

Compulsively believing what your own mind understands is your life's task, crunchy.

No, that's not what I said. at all.

I believe what is DEMONSTRATED. Not just what my mind tells me, but what can be checked, peer reviewed and corroborated by others. That's the point.

Now, if you are going down the "matrix" like route of saying for all we know we could be brains in a vat and what I experience is just what I'm fed, then I don't care, because there's NOTHING I can do about that, so I may as well carry on.