Souls-like games: What's the appeal?

[Grey Dragon]

I been playing games for a very long time and I tend to choose higher difficulty levels on the older games that I've played, such as Quake or the original Devil May Cry. I tend to favour action games, FPS games, arcade-style shmups and the occasional platformer. Souls-like games look appealing to me and have some interesting ideas in them, but the brutal level of difficulty has always put me off from playing them for any significant length of time.

I'm not here to moan, I genuinely want to know what other gamers get out of this. I have tried out the updated version of the original Dark Souls, but it wasn't long after the first boss that I found myself being repeatedly humiliated by skeleton soldiers. At this point I put the game aside for later examination. I also tried Bloodborne, but after beating Father Gascoigne, I deleted the game from my hard drive. The battle was intensely frustrating and winning felt like a hollow victory, as it simply wasn't worth the grief I'd had to go through.

For those of you who play Souls-likes, what is it that you enjoy? How do you contain the frustration these games can generate? What keeps you going when the battle starts to feel hopeless? I genuinely want to know why these games seem to appeal to so many when they seem designed solely for elite gamers.

[𝓡𝓮𝓽𝓻𝓸𝓒𝓪𝓽]

Sure, I'll give you my two cents here. I'm a huge fan of the Souls series and what initially drew me in was the difficulty. There's a certain satisfaction when it comes to conquering certain areas, enemies, and bosses while slowly completing the build of your choice.

Dying countless times until you realize that you're only dying because you're unskilled and haven't mastered the mechanics yet. In other words, these games take a certain deal of patience and skill. But they're definitely not as brutal as people tend to make them out to be.

After your first run, you'll begin to wonder why in the world you thought the series was so difficult. There's a certain feeling of satisfaction you get when you master the mechanics, enemy move sets, and overall fluidity of the game.

Then when your completed build of choice comes together, it's a thing of beauty. You did it: you conquered all the areas, the bosses, completed your build, and ultimately went on to probably PvP online while also getting good at that.

So in conclusion, people like me enjoy these games because they don't hold your hand and it takes a certain amount of skill and patience to learn the mechanics. Once you do, it feels rewarding and you'll want to introduce people to the series.

[Lemale]

We like to get punished but the hardest enemy is still the camera

[Grim Reaper]

probably the rush of playing it the first time through, beating a boss for the first time. and on later playthroughs while i do get better at the game, the game itself doesn't get easier and it just feels good to use all those skills. also its important to understand that dying isn't failing, its just another step to success.

on a side note the reason Dark Souls is my favorite game isn't even because of the gameplay, but rather the ideology it forces you to learn in order to beat the game, the same skills and mindset that is required to beat Dark Souls is the same that is required to be successful in real life.

[Nomad]

Escrito originalmente por ZootsIdenticalTwinSisterDingo:

Escrito originalmente por Grey Dragon:

Souls-like games tend to be action games with a very high level of difficulty and a more strategic style of combat compared to other action games, requiring you to learn your enemy's behaviour and develop tactics to counter it. They also usually feature environment-based storytelling, with item descriptions, books, notes and even the level designs themselves serving to teach you about the setting and your place in it.

That's stupid So it really should be called "Resident Evil-like" or "Devil May Cry-like?"

Heck, Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha did it before.

It's not really like those games though. It's like dark souls, hence, souls-like.

[Grey Dragon]

All of the points being made here make plenty of sense to me, but I can never seem to get past the frustration when things go against me. In Bloodborne, I was able to beat Father Gascoigne, but I got no satisfaction or enjoyment from the experience. By the end of the fight I was nearly blind with rage and ended it not even knowing how I had managed to win.

This is the barrier that stops me from playing souls-like games. I can't overcome the frustration of repeated failure and having to restart the same boss fights again and again. Winning feels hollow because I'm left feeling like I never want to do it again.

[Spawn of Totoro]

It is a love/hate with me. I love many aspects of the game, but there are a few I really hate as well. One reason why I don't suggest people but the game, but can't seem to stop playing it myself.

Escrito originalmente por Grey Dragon:

All of the points being made here make plenty of sense to me, but I can never seem to get past the frustration when things go against me.

I have a limit of 3 deaths, before I take a break and calm down.

Dark Souls is really not that hard, after you learn the mechanics and some general rules.

For one: Always keep the shield up and walk, when exploring. This prevents most deaths by surprise.

Upgrades are King, when it comes to weapons. Upgrade the one you like and learn to use, as high as you can.

The rest is a matter of learning enemy placement and behavior, not just that of bosses either.

First time I enjoyed playing DS1 was when I followed a tutorial on how to be OP (Black Knight Halberd and how to level it up).

Second times was a twink guide for a sorcerer, though I only used it to get started as I don't PvP, so don't need a twink (low level, high gear character).

I have played several games, from start to finish, using either a Strength build (Havel 4 life) or Int/Str hybrid build (Dark Sorcerer). I don't tend to play on New Game + as I never felt the need to do so and it often feels like it defeats the purpose, since you keep all your gear, levels and stats.

Escrito originalmente por Grey Dragon:

Winning feels hollow because I'm left feeling like I never want to do it again.

Winning after all that fells more like a relief to me, not empty, but I guess that is a matter of what one's personal description of it is.

Roller coasters, for example, some describe the feeling as "excitement", but I always called it "fear".

[🖤Lyra🖤]

You get a ton of dopamine that makes you feel good when you get past a hard boss fight etc and or just beat the game etc that’s kinda the main appeal it just makes you feel good.

[Grey Dragon]

Escrito originalmente por 🎃🦴𝓀𝓎𝓇𝒶🦴🎃:

You get a ton of dopamine that makes you feel good when you get past a hard boss fight etc and or just beat the game etc that’s kinda the main appeal it just makes you feel good.

That doesn't seem to happen to me. I just feel weary, without even a hint of satisfaction or relief.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Escrito originalmente por Grey Dragon:

That doesn't seem to happen to me. I just feel weary, without even a hint of satisfaction or relief.

Then that is more of a personal thing that can't be explained. Some part of you just doesn't feel the same as others, so the design is missed on you.

No matter how others explain why they may like something, neither will understand as both simply have different feelings from playing.

Much as with roller coasters and me.

[Nomad]

Escrito originalmente por Grey Dragon:

Escrito originalmente por 🎃🦴𝓀𝓎𝓇𝒶🦴🎃:

You get a ton of dopamine that makes you feel good when you get past a hard boss fight etc and or just beat the game etc that’s kinda the main appeal it just makes you feel good.

That doesn't seem to happen to me. I just feel weary, without even a hint of satisfaction or relief.

I usually feel that way in games with really cheap fights where the game cheats.

[🖤Lyra🖤]

Escrito originalmente por Grey Dragon:

Escrito originalmente por 🎃🦴𝓀𝓎𝓇𝒶🦴🎃:

You get a ton of dopamine that makes you feel good when you get past a hard boss fight etc and or just beat the game etc that’s kinda the main appeal it just makes you feel good.

That doesn't seem to happen to me. I just feel weary, without even a hint of satisfaction or relief.

Hmmm interesting maybe it’s a delay reaction who knows I just know this is the case for me and I’m sure many other people heck even playing games out side of dark souls provides me a ton of dopamine.

[Grey Dragon]

Escrito originalmente por 🎃🦴𝓀𝓎𝓇𝒶🦴🎃:

Hmmm interesting maybe it’s a delay reaction who knows I just know this is the case for me and I’m sure many other people heck even playing games out side of dark souls provides me a ton of dopamine.

In other games, I do feel a tremendous sense of satisfaction after beating a tough boss, but this doesn't seem to happen with souls-like games. I suppose its because I still feel defeated because the boss made me rage.

[Nomad]

I think it's just skill and practise. If you're going into fights and kinda bumbling your way through them in a button-mashy way, you might not find it very satisfying. If you're developing well timed and executed techniques, you might find more satisfaction in outplaying the enemy AI.

[🖤Lyra🖤]

Escrito originalmente por Grey Dragon:

Escrito originalmente por 🎃🦴𝓀𝓎𝓇𝒶🦴🎃:

Hmmm interesting maybe it’s a delay reaction who knows I just know this is the case for me and I’m sure many other people heck even playing games out side of dark souls provides me a ton of dopamine.

In other games, I do feel a tremendous sense of satisfaction after beating a tough boss, but this doesn't seem to happen with souls-like games. I suppose its because I still feel defeated because the boss made me rage.

Hmmm interesting maybe you will feel more dopamine satisfaction when you know hot to precisely beat a boss etc and or have better gear idk I will say if you are a new player to dark souls it will be very hard and frustrating but once you get used to the gameplay mechanics and the bosses you then should start to feel the dopamine as you go around the game for the second play through flexing on the bosses.

[AdahnGorion]

Escrito originalmente por ZootsIdenticalTwinSisterDingo:

I have never encountered anyone who could adequately explain what "souls-like" means.

It is 3rd person dodge dodge, hit combat. Often with unfair enviroment or awful control sceme/responce, coupled with plenty of boss fights were you do those dodge dodge hit sequence fights..

For me, it is a console genre. I also don´t consider it hard, just boring, annoying and often not very well made.