Game Fraud and Scams taking the fun out of Gaming

[Vulgar Puppet Master]

No matter how big and complicated a game is, with thorough testing all of these bugs can and should be ironed out before it gets to the player. Truth is we are all game testers now. Instead of games being sold as a finished product, they are now sold as a work in progress. People are not paid to debug the product being sold to them. We are now paying for the privilege of playing a broken game while fixing it for them. How is this fair trade business? Imagine if you paid €60 to go see a film, and were shown a rough edit and asked to come back and watch it again in a few weeks when they finished it. Imagine if the film didn’t work, so they showed you a five-minute short film instead as an ‘apology’ (and no refund). Imagine if the film ended after an hour, and you were charged another €20 to see the rest of it.
The issues we’re seeing in new releases are not obscure bugs that players were unlikely to find by themselves such Pokémon’s infamous MissingNo (pictured), these are obvious errors that should have been fixed long before a release date was even announced. The rush to get games out for their release date has outstripped any attempt at quality, and it’s the player who pays for this. the ones who pre-order or buy soon after release, are the ones who lose out. They pay €60 for a broken product which may or may not work eventually. People are starting to complain about this practice, but by the time you find out the game doesn’t work it’s too late, your money is gone. The ‘Day One Patch’ is so ubiquitous now that no one bats an eyelid, but not everyone has their games consoles hooked up to the internet meaning that a game fresh from the box increasingly doesn’t work at all. Lets not even get into the loot box or gamble box scams, this practice needs to end.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

PetraeusDavid の投稿を引用：

Which found that the US-based company had violated Australian consumer law by “representing to Australian consumers via the Steam Subscriber Agreement and Steam Refund Policy that consumers had no entitlement to a refund in any circumstances”. Does not sound like a policy update but a fine for being bad. So please explain your wrong statement you made.

How does it apply to you?

[Brian9824]

PetraeusDavid の投稿を引用：

Which found that the US-based company had violated Australian consumer law by “representing to Australian consumers via the Steam Subscriber Agreement and Steam Refund Policy that consumers had no entitlement to a refund in any circumstances”. Does not sound like a policy update but a fine for being bad. So please explain your wrong statement you made.

Actually the ruling was that Steam's refund met all their requirements but it wasn't being explained by support staff as well as it should have been so they got a small fine.

When you dealing with hundreds of different requirements in hundreds of countries stuff like that is common. There isn't a company in the world who hasn't gotten a fine like that. They addressed it years ago to satisfy them, paid their fine, and moved on.

[crunchyfrog]

You're a bit late to the party, OP. This has been a thing since downloadable patches for consoles started - largely the beginning of the Xbox 360 era.

FAR FAR from a new thing.

Furthermore, I'm sorry to say nothing of what you say is unusual - it's pretty straightforward common knowledge that ANYONE buying games knows: you research games BEFORE you buy.

This isn't rocket science. In fact, it's ALWAYS been the case. I learned this fundamental and basic rule around 1980.

Nothing has changed since then markedly, just the methods - back then there were no particular big gaming software companies of note. Almost all were bedroom coders selling either through sefl production or classified ads. As such you had very little idea what the hell you were getting - at best you might get a screenshot, which could be fair or completely misleading.

YOu could say, because of this and the lack of any internet back then it was WORSE.

In any case, there's no excuse to not do your research these days. DO NOT pre-order games as you're falling for one of the biggest con jobs there are. Wait until release, then go and read reviews from people that gel with your tastes AND people who are the OPPOSITE Of your tastes (they are sometimes MORE important). Watch a few videos as well, and you will be set.

This is the very simple procedure I've adopted and I can honestly say of the thousands of games I've bought in the last 20 years or so, I haven't bought a single one where I didn't know exactly what I was letting myself in for, and never overpaid as well.

And to echo what others have said, maybe don't jump on early access games. Too many people, especially younger people fall for empty promises that some so-called devs make and never deliver, and even those who are honest and have the best intentions may well fail.

The best approach for Early Access games is to enter into it either accepting the game as it stands at the point of purchase, or accepting the game is a big gamble and may not get anywhere.

This is basic common sense.

[Vulgar Puppet Master]

Valve's ongoing lawsuit with the ACCC is coming to an end, after the High Court of Australia dismissed the company's special leave application to appeal their $3 million fine. Small fine some one is a fake!

[Crazy Tiger]

PetraeusDavid の投稿を引用：

Which found that the US-based company had violated Australian consumer law by “representing to Australian consumers via the Steam Subscriber Agreement and Steam Refund Policy that consumers had no entitlement to a refund in any circumstances”. Does not sound like a policy update but a fine for being bad. So please explain your wrong statement you made.

Translated: They didn't state well enough that the option for refunds was there.

How about you actually read what it says instead of creating wrong assumptions?

[crunchyfrog]

PetraeusDavid の投稿を引用：

Why does Steam in court have to keep changing their refund policies?
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2018/04/steam-is-displaying-a-consumer-rights-notice-for-aussie-users/

Yeah, as others have said this is an area that in various countries around the world, the laws have been catching up with technology.

I used to be a legal advisor before I retired, and my areas were consumer law and disability law. Here in Britain, when we were still part of the EU, there was a ruling that brought the Sale of digital goods in line with the right offered in the sale of physical goods.

And as it was an EU court ruling, it had to apply in time to all member states. We had until October-ish 2015 to implement it, and we did, as did all the other EU countries.

So, companies, just like Valve had to adjust according to these changes. This is quite normal, and happens all the time in ALL markets. I have previously worked in insurance, and every time a test case went through the courts, we would have to amend our policies.

You may occasionally get letters from your bank with an amendment to their policies too - this is often the very same reasonL due to some legislative change.

[DakiniAmmuz]

Please add me to your friends list

[Brian9824]

PetraeusDavid の投稿を引用：

Valve's ongoing lawsuit with the ACCC is coming to an end, after the High Court of Australia dismissed the company's special leave application to appeal their $3 million fine. Small fine some one is a fake!

3 million dollar fine on ~3.5 BILLION dollars of revenue is a tiny fine. Again, there isn't a company in the world that hasn't paid a fine to a government. It's basically impossible to operate, especially internationally without that occuring eventually.

Heck Amazon was fined more in France over their wording - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-france/amazon-fined-4-million-euros-in-france-over-competition-issues-report-idUSKCN1VO2O4

[Brian9824]

OP - well 5 years ago steam got a fine from 1 country for not having adequate wording about their refunds. That's proof that steam is evil.

Just ignore the fact that the issue in question was resolved years ago, and that every company in the world has basically been fined by the EU.

[Vulgar Puppet Master]

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-confirms-that-valve-misled-gamers Federal Court confirms that Valve misled gamers! “The Full Court also upheld the finding that Valve made misleading representations about consumer guarantees and that certain terms and conditions in the Steam subscriber agreements and refund policies were false or misleading.”

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

PetraeusDavid の投稿を引用：

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-confirms-that-valve-misled-gamers Federal Court confirms that Valve misled gamers! “The Full Court also upheld the finding that Valve made misleading representations about consumer guarantees and that certain terms and conditions in the Steam subscriber agreements and refund policies were false or misleading.”

I still don't know how this applies to you.

[Brian9824]

PetraeusDavid の投稿を引用：

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-confirms-that-valve-misled-gamers Federal Court confirms that Valve misled gamers! “The Full Court also upheld the finding that Valve made misleading representations about consumer guarantees and that certain terms and conditions in the Steam subscriber agreements and refund policies were false or misleading.”

Yes we already went over that, 6 years ago their wording was deemed insufficient, they were fined, and they adjusted it to the courts approval.

Again, as what you quoted states it was the REPRESENTATION of their guarantee that was called into question, not the actual guarantee. They were fined over wording, which is common, amazon, apple, walmart, etc have all gotten fines from the EU which can be super strict with the wording.

Copy and pasting the same thing over and over again doesn't magically mean Valve is an evil company out to get you. Nor does it have anything to do with bugs in Pokemon games, or games from other companies having bugs, nor does it have anything to do with early access.

[Dr.Shadowds 🐉]

PetraeusDavid の投稿を引用：

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-confirms-that-valve-misled-gamers Federal Court confirms that Valve misled gamers! “The Full Court also upheld the finding that Valve made misleading representations about consumer guarantees and that certain terms and conditions in the Steam subscriber agreements and refund policies were false or misleading.”

What year are we in right now OP? Now look at the date when lawsuit happen, and when it fully ended...

[Vulgar Puppet Master]

We need another lawsuit to be honest.

[Brian9824]

Dr.Shadowds 🐉 の投稿を引用：

PetraeusDavid の投稿を引用：

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-federal-court-confirms-that-valve-misled-gamers Federal Court confirms that Valve misled gamers! “The Full Court also upheld the finding that Valve made misleading representations about consumer guarantees and that certain terms and conditions in the Steam subscriber agreements and refund policies were false or misleading.”

What year are we in right now OP? Now look at the date when lawsuit happen, and when it fully ended...

For some reason the OP thinks valves wording about refund policy in Australia 6 years ago, is somehow magically tied into Early Access games, Pokemon, and how other companies are releasing buggy games.

I guess he must think Valve is the Illuminati which controls the world or something...