Why did pop-up headlights just vanished and are illegal?.

[Leavee]

I know it's a weird question but cars like the NSX,miata mx5 (the old one),the fd and fc rx7's and the ae86 trueno (RUNNING IN THE 90s) looked awsome,heck even today just looking at those headlights going up makes them cool and unique than the headlights were all familiar with.But i've been wondering why are did just go away and are illegal at some country's (im not sure where but i heard there not allowed),but you guys have any ideas why?.

[Z i o ⚡]

I'm not sure why it would be illegal. Maybe safety hazard causing extra damage if the car hits a person. I think they went away because they can have problems working in the cold, and they're also less aerodynamic but I don't know if that's why.

[Leavee]

Originally posted by ヤヒヤ:

I'm not sure why it would be illegal. Maybe safety hazard causing extra damage if the car hits a person. I think they went away because they can have problems working in the cold, and they're also less aerodynamic but I don't know if that's why.

That might the reason but how can it be less aerodynamic though?

[[e-mail]]

Technically they're still legal to add in cars, but with all new safety regulations for both the car and pedestrian, no company seems interested dumping a chunk of money to bring them back.

[Sir Dookface McFerretballs]

I loved them!

They aren't illegal in America at least, they just aren't practical anymore.

Car companies will try to save money wherever they can... Even saving $1 over a production run of 5million cars will save $5million. Pop-ups need at least 1-2 motors, or even vacuum systems just to operate, as well as the housings, the lights, and any other parts needed to make them work... And that is if they do work in the first place. I've had and worked on everything from 66 Toronados to late 90s Corvettes and Mazdas and a BMW 850, and they ALL had issues with their flip up headlights more than just about any other part on the car.

They were also not very aerodynamic when on, and because of all the governmental fuel standards across the world constantly getting tighter, and all the safety regulations driving up the costs of even the supposed economy cars, it is just more efficient to have a cheaper one-peice plastic lens, flush body mount, aerodynamic headlight than a square, glass, rotating headlight.

[Leavee]

Originally posted by Zalinto:

Technically they're still legal to add in cars, but with all new safety regulations for both the car and pedestrian, no company seems interested dumping a chunk of money to bring them back.

Wait in what country are they still legal in?

[𝔇ave]

Cos they look like crap?

[Arya]

Originally posted by A living cotton candy:

That might the reason but how can it be less aerodynamic though?

When they're closed they're very aerodynamic indeed. But when they're raised, they cause quite a lot of drag.

They're illegal for manufacturers to install on newly designed cars. Having a car with pop-ups is totally legal everywhere.

They're illegal for new cars for safety reasons. They're very prone to failure - electric pop-ups(Toyota, Mazda) can fail to pop up if there electrics get wet or take a knock. Easy to fix, but problematic. Vaccuum powered pop-ups(US and UK cars, some Italian) are downright dangerous because they're very unreliable. And very difficult to fix by the roadside, leaving you with a car that has no lights at all.

They're also bad for pedestrian safety. Which is a key concern on modern cars - you'd be amazed how much thought goes into making cars safe in pedestrian hits. Certain modern cars have airbags under the hood, to prevent a struck ped from banging their head on the engine block.

[Leavee]

Originally posted by Ðavз:

Cos they look like crap?

Get out NOW

Originally posted by Sir Dookface McFerretballs:

I loved them!

They aren't illegal in America at least, they just aren't practical anymore.

Car companies will try to save money wherever they can... Even saving $1 over a production run of 5million cars will save $5million. Pop-ups need at least 1-2 motors, or even vacuum systems just to operate, as well as the housings, the lights, and any other parts needed to make them work... And that is if they do work in the first place. I've had and worked on everything from 66 Toronados to late 90s Corvettes and Mazdas and a BMW 850, and they ALL had issues with their flip up headlights more than just about any other part on the car.

They were also not very aerodynamic when on, and because of all the governmental fuel standards across the world constantly getting tighter, and all the safety regulations driving up the costs of even the supposed economy cars, it is just more efficient to have a cheaper one-peice plastic lens, flush body mount, aerodynamic headlight than a square, glass, rotating headlight.

So your telling me these headlights needed motors to even function and they were easily broken?

edit:so like if the RX7's healights broke then its going be hard to repair it?

[Arya]

Originally posted by A living cotton candy:

edit:so like if the RX7's healights broke then its going be hard to repair it?

Depends on what specifically broke. Typically the wiring will get knocked or damaged, that's either to fix. Motors aren't too bad either, you can just replace the whole thing for maybe $50-100 a headlight. But the hard part with that is finding a colour-matching light.

I'd be more worried about other things, though, on an RX7. They're ruinously expensive to keep on the road, they need frequent engine rebuilds and those typically cost more than the car is worth.

[[e-mail]]

Originally posted by A living cotton candy:

Originally posted by Zalinto:

Technically they're still legal to add in cars, but with all new safety regulations for both the car and pedestrian, no company seems interested dumping a chunk of money to bring them back.

Wait in what country are they still legal in?

They were ever illegal to begin with, it's just that the new regulations makes adding them impractical and costly.

[Arya]

Originally posted by Zalinto:

They were ever illegal to begin with, it's just that the new regulations makes adding them impractical and costly.

Nobody would bother anyway. I mean they have a certain charisma, but with Aerodynamics being so important nobody's going to sacrifice aero for dubious '80s retro.

[Leavee]

Originally posted by Wolfıe:

Originally posted by A living cotton candy:

edit:so like if the RX7's healights broke then its going be hard to repair it?

Depends on what specifically broke.

I'd be more worried about other things, though, on an RX7. Those cars are an absolute maintainance nightmare. They're ruinously expensive to keep on the road.

But hey,you get the rotary engine with it and the sweet sound of it revving

[[e-mail]]

Originally posted by Wolfıe:

Originally posted by A living cotton candy:

edit:so like if the RX7's healights broke then its going be hard to repair it?

Depends on what specifically broke. Typically the wiring will get knocked or damaged, that's either to fix. Motors aren't too bad either, you can just replace the whole thing for maybe $50-100 a headlight. But the hard part with that is finding a colour-matching light.

I'd be more worried about other things, though, on an RX7. They're ruinously expensive to keep on the road, they need frequent engine rebuilds and those typically cost more than the car is worth.

Rotary engines were flawed. You required a premium mix of oil, carbon buildup was a thing, apex seals needed to be replaced constantly, mpg was terrible, spark plugs were expensive and needed to be replaced every few thousand miles, ect.

Oh yeah. The engine was a ticking time bomb. Anywhere from 30-100k miles, people reported their engines blowing up.

[Leavee]

Originally posted by Zalinto:

Originally posted by Wolfıe:

Depends on what specifically broke. Typically the wiring will get knocked or damaged, that's either to fix. Motors aren't too bad either, you can just replace the whole thing for maybe $50-100 a headlight. But the hard part with that is finding a colour-matching light.

I'd be more worried about other things, though, on an RX7. They're ruinously expensive to keep on the road, they need frequent engine rebuilds and those typically cost more than the car is worth.

Rotary engines were flawed. You required a premium mix of oil, carbon buildup was a thing, apex seals needed to be replaced constantly, mpg was terrible, spark plugs were expensive and needed to be replaced every few thousand miles, ect.

Oh yeah. The engine was a ticking time bomb. Anywhere from 30-100k miles, people reported their engines blowing up.

Okay thats a real nightmare

[Arya]

Originally posted by Zalinto:

Rotary engines were flawed. You required a premium mix of oil, carbon buildup was a thing, apex seals needed to be replaced constantly, mpg was terrible, spark plugs were expensive and needed to be replaced every few thousand miles, ect.

Oh yeah. The engine was a ticking time bomb. Anywhere from 30-100k miles, people reported their engines blowing up.

Oh absolutely.

The main problem is the Apex Seal system. Rotary engines only work if the lobes of the rotor seal properly, but the design of the engine means those lobes are heavily stressed parts. They wear out quite easily, and replacing them means rebuilding the entire engine. Given the age and value of most RX7 models, that process would cost more than the entire car is worth.

And for what benefit? They're loud, they smell, the power is concentrated at the absolute top of the rev-range. And they aren't dramatically more powerful than other engines of the day.

An inline 3 or 4 cylinder can give the same power and is similarly light, but much longer lived and delivers it's power much lower in the rev range. My Peugeot 208 has 220 horsepower, about the same as an FD RX7. But it's all available from about 3500 RPM, so you get an effortless shove away from the lights. That means no revving it out, and no unwanted police attention.