[issue] Game in Full Screen mode randomly alt-tabs into itself while playing

[Elucidator]

Intro:
Do you know what happens when you play a game in full screen mode? If not:
Normally, when activated, Windows makes an application take up all of the rendering area on a single monitor. This application then becomes the same zone in which your mouse can be used. The game or whatever is always-on-top. Nothing will be rendered over it (unless they use tricks like Steam does for the overlay.)

To achieve this, Windows orders the GPU to stop rendering the Windows Desktop and instead render the application. This command makes the monitor display nothing for a second or two, as it changes input on the same cable (basically).

When in Full Screen within a game, using Alt Tab to go to the browser or to discord or whatever, causes Windows to again talk with the GPU in order to make it render the whole desktop (but without the game). This too causes the monitor to temporary turn black for the same amount of time.

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The issue:

When playing a game in Full Screen mode, after about 4~6 hours, something similar to an alt tab may happen. (or it may not happen at all, its random.) And yes, it takes a minimum of 4 hours seemingly. So, it appears at least as if the game is being Alt Tabbed, but its not. Temporary, for a second or two, the monitor goes black indeed. And this only happens in ...seemingly some full screen apps (video games at least).

Why? I don't know.... I literally am unable to trace down why this happens.

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I heard others experience this as well, but it seems to be more common with a Dual Monitor setup. I have a single monitor. I haven't experienced this issue before till this year, where I started using a different monitor. (a new one)

One key difference here is that instead of DVI I am now using HDMI to connect it to the GPU. My previous monitor connection worked flawlessly for years. As to why I am now using HDMI, its because this monitor only has HDMI and DisplayPort as options, and my GPU can only do DVI and HDMI.

I have used both HDMI and DVI on my previous monitor. Through HDMI it ran at 60Hz max. At some point I switched over to DVI to get its max refresh rate of 144Hz. Under both circumstances, I didn't experience this issue. The monitor worked flawlessly, as did my GPU+windows handle it properly.

My current monitor runs with a refreshrate of 120Hz, but is capable of running more than 200Hz should it be connected over DisplayPort. Its a monitor I bought because I will need to soon upgrade hardware. (I'm using an older pc in case it wasn't obvious by now).

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Concluding:
It's not the driver. Its fine.
It's not the OS's version, nor powersaving.
It's not power.
It's not the cable.
It's not the connectors. (I cleaned them with air.)

(also, in case it was, it wouldn't take 4 hours to, with randomness, turn off for a second or two + I'd expect it would afterward happen frequently afterward should it be the connector or whatever, due to for example overheating or some shortage.)

I'm guessing it is an issue of Software. I am guessing it may be something in the game perhaps that doesn't like 120Hz or HDMI.
I haven't tested my previous monitor over HDMI with 60Hz refreshrate with the same games, but from what I gather is that people who do have this odd Alt-Tab-like behavior with fullscreen issue, usually their monitors are connected over HDMI.

Some of those people say it's normal, however I don't see how this is normal.

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A couple of notes:
The monitor doesn't actually turn off, nor does it lose signal. The behavior is identical to Alt Tabbing from fullscreen to somewhere else, where Windows is telling the GPU to focus on a different input source. The thing is, the source stays the same.

Yes I cleaned my GPU.

Anyway, my monitor never tells me that it loses signal, not even through the LED or some warning message. I cannot find errors in Windows about this either. Everything is seemingly "behaving as expected".

No, I haven't tested the games I am currently playing on my old monitor on HDMI, only on DVI.

Also yes, Windowed Mode avoids the issue (So full screen window mode works).
And yes, I have the latest driver for my monitor.

The current monitor I am using is an MSI G2412.
My GPU is an AMD R9 290; its aged
My old monitor was an Acer, forgot the type. Had no issues with this one at least.

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Do you have any ideas I could try and see if it avoids it or not? Keep in mind I will need to test it for a long time across multiple days because it happens randomly and ... it happens rarely.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

This isnt always true anymore in WinOS for full screen games. This is why WinOS had options such as Game Mode and Focus Mode

Sounds more like a possible hardware issue given you are still using a DVI Display and GPU. Which are very outdated to say the least. If you insist on high refresh rates then DP to DP is the way to go.

[Elucidator]

The issue isn't the refreshrate. The newer monitor accepts less of it.

The problem is that sometimes the display goes black for two seconds after about 4 hours. Does this have anything to do with the GPU + Monitor's refreshrate? Unlikely.

I however do suspect that it may have to do with the games I encountered this in. More often than not they have locked FPS, because they're designed to run on multiple consoles, not just Steam/Windows/Linux. I suspect that it has something to do with the way they implement Windows Full Screen over HDMI where they do not expect a refreshrate above that of a TV.

The people I talked with who have this same issue have different monitors, running at 60Hz. A TV however has a lot lower refreshrate, at least by default. The console therefore doesn't expect 60 or more. That is the only thing I was hinting at,

[Bad 💀 Motha]

I'd really like to figure out why so many people experience this "display randomly goes black" issue and the stemming causes.

The last time I seen such an issue was when HDMI was fairly new on ATI Radeon cards.

I do countless builds and test them in games for days and don't ever see this issue on modern hardware

[Elucidator]

Originally posted by Bad 💀 Motha:

I'd really like to figure out why so many people experience this "display randomly goes black" issue and the stemming causes.

The last time I seen such an issue was when HDMI was fairly new on ATI Radeon cards.

I do countless builds and test them in games for days and don't ever see this issue on modern hardware

As mentioned. It didn't happen with my older monitor. Neither with HDMI or the older DVI connection. It isn't very common, so I am not surprised.

It is guess work. I can't say exactly what causes it, but it isn't normal at least. My older monitor stil l works, but indeed I wanted to switch to display port with a newer system, so I bought a new monitor.
The thing is though, I transition hardware slowly piece by piece because of money issues, so the system itself will come later. And yeah I can't buy the latest-most expensive either, but whatever I guess.

New or Old isn't what causes the issue. I haven't seen this issue on older ATI cards with standard monitors (let alone brand monitors). I don't expect to see it with newer AMD cards either.
That said, once I get a newer system, I can test whether or not the GPU is related. Due to what I have seen so far though, I don't think it is.

[Illusion of Progress]

Is it going Black/blank for a few seconds and then "returning to" display normal operation? Or is this leading to a crash?

If it's the latter, there's a number of causes for it.

If it's the former, this sounds similar to what I had before upgrading my GPU (GTX 1060 to 7800 XT) which meant I had to make a cable type change (DVI to DP). The only difference was, my "few seconds of Black" was like... once every two or three months instead of daily. I always thought it was my monitor. It happened across numerous PCs, GPUs, and numerous DVI cables. I even tried both DVI inputs. Figured it was the monitor giving up momentarily and it was that way for like a decade.

Last year I changed to DP. That issue has never happened since. However, I did start to have Black screen crashes on the first 7800 XT that an RMA cleared up. But I had a second issue start with the change where I still rarely had the DP cable lose signal, and more often than before, and often requiring a monitor restart to clear up. I tried multiple cables and even HDMI and they did the same thing. Yet, I still concluded it was the cable in the end.

I figured out it was picking up EMI interference, and my previous DVI cable had those "chokes" on each end but these seem rare on HDMI/DVI. How did I figure it out? No joke, moving my legs and the resulting shifting in clothing (skirts kill display connections apparently...) or pulling my chair in and out would do it, almost to a reproducible extent. I was about to tear my hair out when I discovered this. I got a new DP cable with those chokes on each end (and it's super short because... apparently they don't make them longer often which just hints to me that signal integrity is a bigger issue on these connection types/cables?) and while it can still happen, it's now only like 0.000001% of the time and instead of happening randomly, so I'm happy that it doesn't just happen when I move subtly or pull out my chair. As of now, it not only has a small chance of happening when going from the Windows welcome screen to the desktop (and I've heard this is AMD's drivers not being as good at "renegotiating" a lost signal or something, which may or may not be true, but when I tested it with my older GTX 1060, while it also lost signal too, it always picked it back up on its own). If it happens on PC startup, I turn off the monitor, and turn it back on and it works. It never happens after so I'm happy now.

TL;DR: Unless this is a GPU/power related issue or some software stealing focus, then your issue MIGHT have nothing to do with Alt+Tab or the GPU, but instead it might either be with your cable, interference it is picking up, or the input on the monitor. You are describing almost exactly what I experienced on my old DVI cable, expect for the fact it happened far less frequently for me, and it stopped for me (but was replaced with a worse version of it) when moving to DP until I ultimately figured it all out.

Remember, I tried multiple cables too and they all mostly did it (to different levels of severity, depending on how the cable was routed) so that makes it easy to think the cable isn't a variable, but... interference or a "flaky monitor input" can be tricky. Try and zip tie the cable or route it differently, or test for EMI by pushing your chair in and out.

Sorry if any that was all over but maybe some of my experience will help you.

[Elucidator]

Originally posted by Illusion of Progress:

Is it going Black/blank for a few seconds and then "returning to" display normal operation? Or is this leading to a crash?

-snip-

Sorry if any that was all over but maybe some of my experience will help you.

Electromagnetic interference? Never thought of that. Thanks.
I am not sure how I could test that at the moment, but I should be able to. Its possible the HDMI is less well protected against interference. However, one point is still puzzling about this...

The thing is, this "turning black' only happened during fullscreen mode gaming so far, specific games even (for me at least).
This turning black for a moment is similar to how it momentarily turns black when switching from Full Screen to Windowed Mode, or changing resolution in a full screen mode game. I think it takes the same amount of time? Not too sure to be honest. Its a short moment at least.

I guess I am more active on the chair then when watching netflix or something. I am also closer to the cable as I am ... well seated.

I should buy a long skirt I guess lol.

Yeah, I ... generally don't have any cables or whatever near my PC that could interfere with it, There are a few cables though. Keyboard, mouse, speakers, microphone/headset. If it is EM interference, I could wrap the cable in aluminium foil or something.

--- It is indeed possible.
It could be me I guess, but...
The new monitor draws perhaps more power and the power cable doesn't look well protected either. Perhaps it didn't happen before, but happens now because I have different neighbors; whom frequently use a keyboard connected to a surround installation to play piano when home. Generally, people also have Wifi 5 or 6, which generally need a few WiFi spots to function properly. More and more stuff may be behind the walls which I did not take into account.

Thanks for the hint at least.

Edit: I uh moved the power cable a bit. Not a lot but further away from the other cables. I also noticed the cable move when a stand fan was blowing my direction, so I fixed its position. I guess I should try to trigger the black out thing-- see if it happens or not. (It doesn't happen most of the time though, so ... no clue.) This will take a while to test.

[Illusion of Progress]

Oh, if it only happens in fullscreen games, then yeah I overlooked that and it might be something else entirely.

In my case it wasn't interference from other wires. It was from the chair itself (apparently the gas canister thingy from office chairs can cause this?) or from movement of clothing (fabric generates EMI too I suppose).

If I used the longer DP cable that hung behind my desk more (close to my legs and chair, despite my desk having a back), it was picking it up more I guess. Zip tying the cable up minimized the frequency of the interference, but did not stop it.

Once I bought a new cable with chokes, it almost entirely stopped, but the new cable is also shorter and doesn't hang down behind my desk at all, so I imagine the chokes only helped a little bit and it was a combination of those and the routing that stopped it from picking EMI up. Either way, it stopped which is what matters.

Likewise, my previous DVI cables had those chokes but were longer cables and hung down behind my guess. My guess is they were more resistant to the interference, but still picked it up sometimes.

But yeah I'm not sure how likely it is to be EMI if it's only happening in full screen stuff (unless it's possible the GPU or cable is more "sensitive" to picking it up when under load, but that's a pure guess on my part).

I'd honestly even play with CPU spread spectrum settings and see if that helps. There might be internal EMI involved?

If I have this right, the only thing you didn't test changing yet was the GPU, but it worked fine on the old monitor and DVI cable? If so, that sort of leaves any combination of those three things as a possible cause in my mind.

[Bad 💀 Motha]

It could be GPU driver crash and restart process but I don't think this can happen while a game or benchmark is running and not have those kinds of apps crash as a result.

I also always go and increase the OS TDR time out delays because ever since Win7, these have been defaulted to what could be considered too low. So I change these in Registry and reboot the PC to apply changes. TDR Manipulater app makes this easy enough.