Did Steam get less evil? I'm shocked or confused and Everything is backwards.
It saying "Steam will stop working on Windows 7", implying it will be killed the way they killed XP.

But I just read on their support page:
As of January 1 2024, Steam will officially stop supporting the Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 operating systems. After that date, existing Steam Client installations on these operating systems will no longer receive updates of any kind including security updates.


That's what I wanted from the XP and said so a bazillion times and got flamed dozen times as much for it. No-updates. No push an "update the breaks it" - at minimum - leave it alone and let the consumer worry about it.

For years, my biggest problem with Steam was the Steam said they would merely "not support XP", not kill it, and then they pushed to "patch" that killed it.

But now... ARE THEY REALLY DOING THE OPPOSITE (Not-So-Evil Thing!??!?![/bBut are they really doing the right thing with regard to Not Support Windows 7- as in
actually leaving it alone and not intentionally breaking it?

Sooooo messed up.... "Stop Supporting" means "intentionally break it", but not
"Stop running" means "not support" and it MIGHT keep running for a while?

Is this for real?

I was going to rent a Win-11 machine for a week until I get my new Win-10 one.
Time to put that on hold?

Seriously... who knows what?

Thanks!
Отредактировано battlezoby; 29 дек. 2023 г. в 22:10
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Сообщения 4660 из 74
Автор сообщения: battlezoby
It saying "Steam will stop working on Windows 7", implying it will be killed the way they killed XP.

But I just read on their support page:
As of January 1 2024, Steam will officially stop supporting the Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 operating systems. After that date, existing Steam Client installations on these operating systems will no longer receive updates of any kind including security updates.


That's what I wanted from the XP and said so a bazillion times and got flamed dozen times as much for it. No-updates. No push an "update the breaks it" - at minimum - leave it alone and let the consumer worry about it.

For years, my biggest problem with Steam was the Steam said they would merely "not support XP", not kill it, and then they pushed to "patch" that killed it.

But now... ARE THEY REALLY DOING THE OPPOSITE (Not-So-Evil Thing!??!?!
But are they really doing the right thing with regard to Not Support Windows 7- as in
actually leaving it alone and not intentionally breaking it?

Sooooo messed up.... "Stop Supporting" means "intentionally break it", but not
"Stop running" means "not support" and it MIGHT keep running for a while?

Is this for real?

I was going to rent a Win-11 machine for a week until I get my new Win-10 one.
Time to put that on hold?

Seriously... who knows what?

Thanks!
install linux. it is free and supports more games
Отредактировано nobleberry; 1 янв. 2024 г. в 4:34
Автор сообщения: kitty
All of that (and I do mean ALL of it) can be completely disabled in windows 10 with a few clicks in about 60 seconds.
All of ANYTHING can be immediately disabled or reenabled by Microsoft while you sleep (or AFK or get a forced updated while you boot.)

Or did you not notice that the company (Microsoft) that installed the keylogger in the first place pushes whatever they want onto your machine and called them "Updates"?

Back in Windows 95 days, they had checkboxes to "disabled updates", even when new(ish?) but then they got caught having creating a secret certificate that would upload anything they wanted if anyone hit it on the web.

That certificate got into the news because hackers discovered it and used it.

Microsoft didn't deny having intentionally creating it, their lawyers just said: "Well... if the user chose to install Microsoft, then it was reasonable to assume that they trusted Microsoft." Of course, virtually nobody back then ever installed Microsoft Windows, it just got shoved onto PC's before you bought them.
Отредактировано battlezoby; 3 янв. 2024 г. в 5:41
Автор сообщения: tyl0413
Don't use garbage browsers with 0 protection. Don't use Windows to begin with if you're actually worried because it always was and always will be an inherently insecure piece of ♥♥♥♥ and now it's spyware too.
Yup.

As I've become fond of pointing out one of the simplest yet most effective ways to mitigate malware was "chroot" developed by Unix in 1979. Both Unix and Linux have since implimented far more advanced and superior "jails", but I'm still waiting for someone to tell me "chroot" is on Microsoft-Windows at all. (I've seen reports a few years ago that it isn't.)

Once you get to the big-enough companies, the securities holes are there by design. For one thing, it gives them a way to convince you to accept their darn updates.

BTW... I'm talking about "Chroot" and Jails for the USER... I get the impression MS now has them for Windows-11 not to keep malware out, but rather, for keeping you away from the malware MS itself installed.
Автор сообщения: battlezoby
Автор сообщения: kitty
All of that (and I do mean ALL of it) can be completely disabled in windows 10 with a few clicks in about 60 seconds.
All of ANYTHING can be immediately disabled or reenabled by Microsoft while you sleep (or AFK or get a forced updated while you boot.)

Or did you not notice that the company (Microsoft) that installed the keylogger in the first place pushes whatever they want onto your machine and called them "Updates"?

Back in Windows 95 days, they had checkboxes to "disabled updates", even when new(ish?) but then they got caught having creating a secret certificate that would upload anything they wanted if anyone hit it on the web.

That certificate got into the news because hackers discovered it and used it.

Microsoft didn't deny having intentionally creating it, their lawyers just said: "Well... if the user chose to install Microsoft, then it was reasonable to assume that they trusted Microsoft." Of course, virtually nobody back then ever installed Microsoft Windows, it just got shoved onto PC's before you bought them.
if it has update wich isnt on a disc its absolutly spyware for what wicked things can they do after all they could lie they could be preying for your precius data
Отредактировано lailaamell; 3 янв. 2024 г. в 6:48
Автор сообщения: kitty
Автор сообщения: battlezoby
All of ANYTHING can be immediately disabled or reenabled by Microsoft while you sleep (or AFK or get a forced updated while you boot.)

Or did you not notice that the company (Microsoft) that installed the keylogger in the first place pushes whatever they want onto your machine and called them "Updates"?
You are wrong and this is false information. Microsoft can not re-enable updates and automatically download things to our computer. Once we disable updates with tools like Shutup 10 and Win Aero Tweaker they can never be re-enabled. That's complete nonsense. One of my computers in the house as a test has had updates disabled for 3 years now. I just booted it up today after your comment, it went online, and updates are still disabled.

You're spreading misinformation on purpose. NOT COOL!
First of all, for the normal user they can't disable updates. And if they do, you're kind of back to no updates and not much argument for being than Windows 7.

Are you in the "you can stay on Windows 7" camp? Because not updating Win-10 sure sounds like not updating Win-7. If you're not updating, no reason to migrate from Windows-7.

Lastly, how you do know there aren't more backdoors like the Certificate I told you about above? Or are you posting from an offline machine to be safe?
Автор сообщения: battlezoby
Автор сообщения: kitty
You are wrong and this is false information. Microsoft can not re-enable updates and automatically download things to our computer. Once we disable updates with tools like Shutup 10 and Win Aero Tweaker they can never be re-enabled. That's complete nonsense. One of my computers in the house as a test has had updates disabled for 3 years now. I just booted it up today after your comment, it went online, and updates are still disabled.

You're spreading misinformation on purpose. NOT COOL!
First of all, for the normal user they can't disable updates. And if they do, you're kind of back to no updates and not much argument for being than Windows 7.

Are you in the "you can stay on Windows 7" camp? Because not updating Win-10 sure sounds like not updating Win-7. If you're not updating, no reason to migrate from Windows-7.

Lastly, how you do know there aren't more backdoors like the Certificate I told you about above? Or are you posting from an offline machine to be safe?
i haven updated win 11 for a year now btw
Автор сообщения: kitty
Автор сообщения: battlezoby
First of all, for the normal user they can't disable updates.
Sure they can. Anyone can download Shutup10 and/or WinAeroTweaker and click a switch then reboot their computer. It's not even difficult.

Автор сообщения: battlezoby
Are you in the "you can stay on Windows 7" camp?
Nope. I'm in the "Making sure that technical comments in the steam forums are accurate and correct" camp. I'm doing what I can to fight the overwhelming sea of misinformation spread around here one comment at a time.

Автор сообщения: battlezoby
Because not updating Win-10 sure sounds like not updating Win-7. If you're not updating, no reason to migrate from Windows-7.
No one said anything about not getting windows updates. You didn't say that yourself. You specifically said all settings in Windows 10 and Windows 11 could be re-enabled at-will by microsoft. That part is not true and completely false. Microsoft can not control our computers. They can not "turn on" anything in Windows after we disable it. Just because someone has updates disabled does not mean that they don't get updates. I have updates disabled on all of my Windows 10 and Windows 11 machines. Once a month I turn on updates and get all updates installed since the previous month then I switch off updates again. I still get all windows updates (Even though I have updates disabled). I just do it on my schedule. I don't let microsoft control my computer and install updates automatically at random.

Автор сообщения: battlezoby
Lastly, how you do know there aren't more backdoors like the Certificate I told you about above? Or are you posting from an offline machine to be safe?
I am posting from a Windows 11 computer. I may be wrong about this but as far as I am aware there are no "backdoors" in to Windows 10 or Windows 11 where microsoft can control anything of our computers. At least nothing that has been officially confirmed and published by a recognized computer security company.

Windows Update is obviously a Microsoft backdoor for them to install whatever they want to on your computer. It says they can in the EULA.
Автор сообщения: battlezoby
Автор сообщения: kitty
You are wrong and this is false information. Microsoft can not re-enable updates and automatically download things to our computer. Once we disable updates with tools like Shutup 10 and Win Aero Tweaker they can never be re-enabled. That's complete nonsense. One of my computers in the house as a test has had updates disabled for 3 years now. I just booted it up today after your comment, it went online, and updates are still disabled.

You're spreading misinformation on purpose. NOT COOL!
First of all, for the normal user they can't disable updates. And if they do, you're kind of back to no updates and not much argument for being than Windows 7.

Are you in the "you can stay on Windows 7" camp? Because not updating Win-10 sure sounds like not updating Win-7. If you're not updating, no reason to migrate from Windows-7.

Lastly, how you do know there aren't more backdoors like the Certificate I told you about above? Or are you posting from an offline machine to be safe?

The normal user can't do what?
Does the average user need something special to do that? NO.
It's right within the OS normally.

There is no real need to update Win10 any further if using 22H2, there is only a few updates beyond that. Leaving Win10 or 11 not updated for too long is fairly dumb to do though, as it will need those kernel updates over time, otherwise newer stuff mostly likely is not going to work on your system, or it might appear to work, but has problems.
@Kitty: You wrote:
Автор сообщения: kitty
There are frequent security updates that are necessary to continue using windows safely.
after writing:
Автор сообщения: kitty
I may be wrong about this but as far as I am aware there are no "backdoors" in to Windows 10 or Windows 11 where microsoft can control anything of our computers.
So, you think that there are security holes in Microsoft-Windows that hackers can access before they're patched, but those security holes don't represent "backdoors" that Microsoft can exploit before they patch them?

Do you think that maybe you should try to think this through better?


BTW: I admit I was wrong about "anytime they want" because I was speaking figuratively. For example, if you power down your computer and lock it in a metal safe with no power, Microsoft might not be able to upload onto it until someone proves access to it by opening or penatrating the metal safe.
Отредактировано battlezoby; 4 янв. 2024 г. в 8:29
Автор сообщения: battlezoby
@Kitty: You wrote:
Автор сообщения: kitty
There are frequent security updates that are necessary to continue using windows safely.
after writing:
Автор сообщения: kitty
I may be wrong about this but as far as I am aware there are no "backdoors" in to Windows 10 or Windows 11 where microsoft can control anything of our computers.
So, you think that there are security holes in Microsoft-Windows that hackers can access before they're patched, but those security holes don't represent "backdoors" that Microsoft can exploit before they patch them?

Do you think that maybe you should try to think this through better?


BTW: I admit I was wrong about "anytime they want" because I was speaking figuratively. For example, if you power down your computer and lock it in a metal safe with no power, Microsoft might not be able to upload onto it until someone proves access to it by opening or penatrating the metal safe.
those holes are due to new ways to hack into systems are discovered wich wasnt thought of back when but since no one is there to patch those ways in
Автор сообщения: lailaamell
Автор сообщения: battlezoby
First of all, for the normal user they can't disable updates. And if they do, you're kind of back to no updates and not much argument for being than Windows 7.

Are you in the "you can stay on Windows 7" camp? Because not updating Win-10 sure sounds like not updating Win-7. If you're not updating, no reason to migrate from Windows-7.

Lastly, how you do know there aren't more backdoors like the Certificate I told you about above? Or are you posting from an offline machine to be safe?
i haven updated win 11 for a year now btw
I haven't update 10 LTSC since installing it, I refuse to install MS updates after what they pulled with the Windows 10 forced upgrades out of principles. From that point forward no MS update should be trustworthy. That's when they exploited gullible people like me who install security updates by hiding GWX (forced W10 upgrade tool) in updates marked as security updates (remember W7 had different categories of Important(Security) updates and Optional(Feature) updates which they conveniently took out of 10 along with all other real control over updates) and when the pop up came up closing by clicking X at the top (the only other "option" aside the big Upgrade Now and Schedule Upgrade buttons) was treated the same as Schedule Upgrade for next reboot or they just waked your PC from sleep in the middle of the night to install it.
Don't let history be rewritten just because many put up with it this first time just to make it go away without knowing that from then on this process will be repeated twice every year til the end of times (I think recently they switched to doing one yearly feature upgrade now instead of 2 so they can save features for the next major version to force hardware upgrades, also interesting how instead of making it like how Service Packs worked it's basically a full OS upgrade to make sure it's extra painful).
I find the notion of not updating Windows "out of principle" while still opting to use it (and other Microsoft software) despite having issues with the way Microsoft operates to be complete and utter nonsense.
If you really have a problem with them then you shouldn't be using their software, period, it's hypocritical and you're not making anything better by using their software at its worst, you're only helping them because they can still see that despite all of the problems, people will use it anyway even if they don't update.

Don't be a hypocrite; use other (open-source) operating systems like Linux instead, or stop pretending like you're some virtuous knight in shining armour facing up against the industrial hydra. If Microsoft is bad, evil, whatever negative terminology you want to use, yet you continue to use their junk, what does that tell anyone?
Отредактировано r.linder; 4 янв. 2024 г. в 10:37
Also December Steam Stats are out and I'm honestly surprised that 0.06% took my advice regarding Windows upgrades and went with the factory debloated Windows Server 2019 (or 10 LTSC which is counted the same as regular editions of 10, I expect that to be even more popular than Server 2019 but we'll never know about that for sure unless they'd break down editions too which I don't expect) instead of normal 10.
This is the way if you are going to use modern Windows, 10 LTSC(11 LTSC coming this year but stick to 10 until it gets murdered like 7) or Server, no inbetween, you still need 3rd party tools/registry/group policy/etc to disable/control updates and I'd still recommend still blocking all the MS tracking links in your firewall to be sure but it is the way to use NT 10, no ads, no feature updates, no AI ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, no bing, no MS account, no store (can be reinstalled if needed),etc meanwhile all things you actually would wanna run on W10 do work on it. Infact I've noticed slightly better performance and much better stability than debloated 10 Pro because all the ♥♥♥♥ is left out of the code by MS themselves instead of having to deal with clunky third party tools that run in the background on top.
There's absolutely no reason to be running anything other than LTSC or Server versions of post 10 Windows. All the benefits without most of the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, this is really where anyone who still needs to use Windows should be directed but theres too many shills and dumb people that would rather defend evil billion dollar corporations and spread misinformation.
If you're running regular 10 you're punishing yourself for no good reason, stop it , get some help.
7 can be direct upgraded to LTSC 2015 then to a newer version from there.
Normal 10 I'm sure you can direct upgrade too but just nuke that to make sure none of the crap follows over, it's not a bad idea to reinstall Windows every now and then anyways.
Автор сообщения: 尺.し工几ᗪヨ尺
I find the notion of not updating Windows "out of principle" while still opting to use it (and other Microsoft software) despite having issues with the way Microsoft operates to be complete and utter nonsense.
If you really have a problem with them then you shouldn't be using their software, period, it's hypocritical and you're not making anything better by using their software at its worst, you're only helping them because they can still see that despite all of the problems, people will use it anyway even if they don't update.

Don't be a hypocrite; use other (open-source) operating systems like Linux instead, or stop pretending like you're some virtuous knight in shining armour facing up against the industrial hydra.
I use Linux on all my PCs that don't game (Deck excluded), Linux shills need to accept game compatibility is not quite where it should be, especially on nVidia. I'm not losing 70% of my performance and compatibility thanks. Nearly all my other software is FOSS regardless of platform other than the few obvious examples, Steam, nVidia driver, stuff like that.
Автор сообщения: tyl0413
Автор сообщения: 尺.し工几ᗪヨ尺
I find the notion of not updating Windows "out of principle" while still opting to use it (and other Microsoft software) despite having issues with the way Microsoft operates to be complete and utter nonsense.
If you really have a problem with them then you shouldn't be using their software, period, it's hypocritical and you're not making anything better by using their software at its worst, you're only helping them because they can still see that despite all of the problems, people will use it anyway even if they don't update.

Don't be a hypocrite; use other (open-source) operating systems like Linux instead, or stop pretending like you're some virtuous knight in shining armour facing up against the industrial hydra.
I use Linux on all my PCs that don't game (Deck excluded), Linux shills need to accept game compatibility is not quite where it should be, especially on nVidia. I'm not losing 70% of my performance and compatibility thanks. Nearly all my other software is FOSS regardless of platform other than the few obvious examples, Steam, nVidia driver, stuff like that.
I'm using Nvidia and my games run the same or better on most of my games compared to how they did on Windows. I have over 500 games in my library and 90% of them run on Linux just fine. 9% run with issues, only 1% won't run at all.

A lot of the anti-Linux arguments in 2023~2024 are just copium at this point. Quite a few people have variations of Arch Linux running games faster than Windows 11.
Отредактировано r.linder; 4 янв. 2024 г. в 10:47
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