Nvidia abusing the advantage of short supply by jacking up the prices.

[Natasha]

Since the 3000 series of cards is so overpriced, 3060 is 652,11 dollars for the crappy plastic exterior with 2 fans, ( i wouldn't even pay 300 for that), and over a thousand dollars for the high end 3060's, you heard it here over a thousand dollars for a mid range card.

This of course has made the 2000 series of cards much more desirable, comparing a 2070RTX with a 3060RTX not only does it perform better i save near 200 dollars in europe, nvidia has made the 3k series a very undesirable purchase for being too greedy.

I hope amd catches up soon cause i am tired of these greedy aholes and having no other choice.

[nullable]

Publicado originalmente por Spawn of Totoro:

300-400 USD would be the price of an entry range gaming GPU. That is about what I paid for my Geforce GTS 250 long ago.

While agree with the rest of your points and am not agreeing with the OP. I think your memory may be a bit faulty on this one detail. Whether it be the model of the GPU, the price you paid, or the particular of why you might have paid that price. Regardless it's not typical.

The MSRP is listed at $149. And that makes sense to me. In 2010 I think I spent about $180-200 for a 1GB GTX 460 from newegg. In 2008 I spent around $200 for a GeForce GTS 512MB G92.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gts-250,2172-2.html (and the GTS 250 was a rebadged tweaked variation of that same G92 core in my 8800GTS, and the GTX 9800 refresh cards)

Was something going on in 2009 to disrupt semiconductors that doubled prices? I don't recall anything, but I wasn't in the market for new hardware at the time.

I would agree prices have trended up over the last decade. A GTX 460 would cost literally half as much as a new 3060 at MSRP. But GPU's are a lot more powerful and have a lot more going on too so I can tolerate it.

But $400 for a 3060 is pretty rich for a lot users. I never spent anywhere cost to $400 on a GPU until I bought a GTX 1070 in 2016. And that's after PC gaming almost exclusively since 1999. And I pretty much never bought entry level hardware. $200 was a pretty good price point for a long long time for pretty decent hardware. And it's not like wages have drastically increased in the last five years.

Although I do recall needing/wanting to upgrade a bit more frequently compared to now. So maybe it's a bit of a wash.

Aside from all that. I don't think OP is quite as informed about the subject as he wants to assume. There's lots of factors that go into retail price and he seems to want to ignore many of them because being mad at Nvidia is convenient for him.

[Edifier]

Publicado originalmente por cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

The $1199 price tag for the new 3080ti is Nvidia's doing and that is a bit excessive.

:qr:

That 3080ti is about 2% less powerful than a 3090 and with half the RAM. I'd say for the price they put it on it's a good deal if you where planning to get a 3090 you could go for that one instead.

Otherwise just go for the normal 3080.

[IFIYGD]

Meanwhile, I'll just keep playing games with a 2070 RTX Super and enjoy how much better it performs than my previous rig, which was running a 740 GT.

Blame cryptominers for some of the price increase as well, perhaps?
If miners are willing to pay higher prices to get the newest and latest and greatest and fastest and most powerful... of course retailers and scalpers are going to go after higher profits for themselves. They don't care if they sell to gamers or miners, as long as they sell cards.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Publicado originalmente por Snakub Plissken:

Publicado originalmente por Spawn of Totoro:

300-400 USD would be the price of an entry range gaming GPU. That is about what I paid for my Geforce GTS 250 long ago.

While agree with the rest of your points and am not agreeing with the OP. I think your memory may be a bit faulty on this one detail. Whether it be the model of the GPU, the price you paid, or the particular of why you might have paid that price. Regardless it's not typical.

The MSRP is listed at $149. And that makes sense to me. In 2010 I think I spent about $180-200 for a 1GB GTX 460 from newegg. In 2008 I spent around $200 for a GeForce GTS 512MB G92.

Was something going on in 2009 to disrupt semiconductors that doubled prices? I don't recall anything, but I wasn't in the market for new hardware at the time.

I would agree prices have trended up over the last decade. A GTX 460 would cost literally half as much as a new 3060 at MSRP. But GPU's are a lot more powerful and have a lot more going on too so I can tolerate it.

But $400 for a 3060 is pretty rich. I never spent anywhere cost to $400 on a GPU until I bought a GTX 1070 in 2016. And that's after PC gaming almost exclusively since 1999. And I pretty much never bought entry level hardware. $200 was a pretty good price point for a long long time for pretty decent hardware.

Although I do recall needing/wanting to upgrade a bit more frequently compared to now. So maybe it's a bit of a wash.

Yep, my mistake. It was around $200-$250 (with tax) at Fry's electronics, long ago. Can't recall the brand, but it was more then the $150 MSRP. Could have been a factory OC one as well.

Found the model:
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gts-250.c241

Was $200 + tax (9.25%), so about $220.

Publicado originalmente por IFIYGD:

Meanwhile, I'll just keep playing games with a 2070 RTX Super and enjoy how much better it performs than my previous rig, which was running a 740 GT.

Same for my and my 2080 Super.

Looking to upgrade a bit more though, with a new CPU and motherboard.. just trying to figure out if I have to upgrade the RAM too.

[Illusion of Progress]

The OP is right, and I've been saying this here and there for a while now. GPU prices have been going up... and up... and up. This is true even entirely ignoring the whole FUBAR situation whereby GPUs are scarce and/or two to three times MSRP due to shortages and mining demand, as well.

With Maxwell (keep in mind this wasn't THAT long ago), the x70 tier card released with an MSRP of $329. I know because I tried purchasing one.

With Pascal, the better of the two x60 tier cards (the 6 GB variant) released with an MSRP of $249. I know because I did purchase one.

Since the RTX series, prices have massively shot upwards. With the RTX 3000 series, the slower of the two x60 tier cards (the RTX 3060 non-Ti) is the same $329 that the x70 tier card was three generations prior. The better variant costs even more at $399. We've gone to see the x60 tier expanded, and ALL offerings be at or above prior x70 tier pricing. And this is the generation people are praising on price to performance? I laugh; it's every bit as much of a joke. OP is right, nVdia has gotten consumers to not only accept price hikes, but to praise them.

I don't care about RTX if this is the cost; GPU prices never shot up so massively in the past over one "kill your FPS for better visuals" settings.

The sad thing is, if you purchased a GTX 1060 6 GB for $250 five years ago, you couldn't even get a card twice as fast at the same price five years later. It never even got there, and in the past, that mark was typically reached at the mid-range within that time frame. This is actually an important factor, because if anyone wanted to a lot more performance and DIDN'T mind paying more, they'd have done so back in 2016. This is a form of stagnation (relative to price, that is, because the absolute performance does go up but it's just given a higher price tag).

Neither the x70 tier nor even the x60 tier are mid-range anymore. Oh, sure, they've moved DOWN the stack relatively, with the x60 tier being split into two or three versions, and the introduction of the x90 tier at the top, but this only aides to be an illusion that they are. $400 to $500+ is not mid-range in pricing, and because of the whole low supply and high demand combined with mining, you won't even find these newer ones below two to three times MSRP atop that. The $200 to $300 market is traditionally the sweet spot for most people, and nVidia's been ignoring it. We've come a long way from the 8800 GT which cost UNDER $250.

Want to close by saying the broader situation with the market is nowhere NEAR nVidia's fault and I realize that (however, both they and AMD are also riding it for all its worth and milking the increased demand at the top end and ignoring the traditional mid-range price points, though that's no surprise as it's what they are literally supposed to do unfortunately). There's decreased production and increased demand, tariffs hitting the US market, a mining craze, and other factors. But, purely ignoring this and only looking at MSRP, OP is still 100% entirely right. GPU prices are really going up the last few generations.

[Mad Scientist]

Publicado originalmente por Illusion of Progress:

The OP is right, and I've been saying this here and there for a while now. GPU prices have been going up... and up... and up. This is true even entirely ignoring the whole FUBAR situation whereby GPUs are scarce and/or two to three times MSRP due to shortages and mining demand, as well.

With Maxwell (keep in mind this wasn't THAT long ago), the x70 tier card released with an MSRP of $329. I know because I tried purchasing one.

With Pascal, the better of the two x60 tier cards (the 6 GB variant) released with an MSRP of $249. I know because I did purchase one.

Since the RTX series, prices have massively shot upwards. With the RTX 3000 series, the slower of the two x60 tier cards (the RTX 3060 non-Ti) is the same $329 that the x70 tier card was three generations prior. The better variant costs even more at $399. We've gone to see the x60 tier expanded, and ALL offerings be at or above prior x70 tier pricing. And this is the generation people are praising on price to performance? I laugh; it's every bit as much of a joke. OP is right, nVdia has gotten consumers to not only accept price hikes, but to praise them.

Well there's what someone else was demanding from me.

Anyway; it's because they've largely been the big dog, and only real choice for high end performance. Now with AMD on their heels, chances are price wars are going to be a thing again other than the what, $5 to $10 difference not that long ago between amd and nvidia?

I'd expect the prices for units of certain series to drop if AMD keeps this up, putting further pressure onto nvidia. Since nvidia has basically been the king of performance until recently, they're going to have to compete far more frequently.

Publicado originalmente por Illusion of Progress:

I don't care about RTX if this is the cost; GPU prices never shot up so massively in the past over one "kill your FPS for better visuals" settings.

Tell me you saw those minecraft RTX benchmarks, how laughably bad the FPS was when using it.

Publicado originalmente por Illusion of Progress:

This is a form of stagnation (relative to price, that is, because the absolute performance does go up but it's just given a higher price tag).

To add to that, a higher price tag for usually less material / more efficient units than their counterparts in generation/series.

Publicado originalmente por Illusion of Progress:

The $200 to $300 market is traditionally the sweet spot for most people, and nVidia's been ignoring it. We've come a long way from the 8800 GT which cost UNDER $250.

This, is truly known overall, but they know unless AMD competes harder they can just name the price until such happens on a frequent basis.

Also the 8800 GT seemed to be one of those ridiculously long lasting units.

Publicado originalmente por Illusion of Progress:

There's decreased production and increased demand, tariffs hitting the US market, a mining craze, and other factors. But, purely ignoring this and only looking at MSRP, OP is still 100% entirely right. GPU prices are really going up the last few generations.

with AMD coming up and intel joining in, I wonder what the prices will end up being once both are well-off enough able to present a solid threat to nvidia. Certainly it'll take a while for intel, looked like their unit wasn't as strong as they hoped.

[Illusion of Progress]

Publicado originalmente por Mr. Gentlebot:

Tell me you saw those minecraft RTX benchmarks, how laughably bad the FPS was when using it.

Can't say I have, as I prefer the Java version (which performs worse than Bedrock in a number of ways) and use third party shaders, and those are also known to really drag the frame rate down.

The only thing I didn't like about the RTX release of Minecraft was how water doesn't look like water, but rather like ice I guess. It's too flat and motionless with the reflection. Java version shaders might be less accurate, but look better in this regard. But yeah, I'm used to seeing Minecraft eat modern CPUs (largely single-threaded outside chunk loading) and even GPUs (with shaders) so I probably wouldn't be surprised if you showed me the benchmarks.

Publicado originalmente por Mr. Gentlebot:

Also the 8800 GT seemed to be one of those ridiculously long lasting units.

Yeah, I sort of hesitated to use it as an example since it was such an exception and not a norm. But, it was less about how long it lasted, and more about its value (as far as them lasting long, IIRC many of them actually had issues lasting long since this was around the time people were baking their GPUs to revive them due to weak soldering, but if you lucked out yeah it lasted forever). nVidia literally went and created a card almost as fast as their flagship, and sold it for a far reduced price. They cannibalized not only their competition, but their own lineup. Nothing like that was ever seen before, and I doubt it will be again. It literally became ALMOST the only GPU to matter, because anything else was too awful compared to it in price to performance to even consider over it. Imagine if the upcoming RTX 3080 Ti released for like $350. It'd be something like that.

[nullable]

Publicado originalmente por Illusion of Progress:

The OP is right, and I've been saying this here and there for a while now. GPU prices have been going up... and up... and up. This is true even entirely ignoring the whole FUBAR situation whereby GPUs are scarce and/or two to three times MSRP due to shortages and mining demand, as well.

*snip*

Yes hardware costs are increasing. But from where do you get the idea that the costs of hardware shouldn't change? Or that costs to produce ever more powerful hardware aren't increasing as well?

One way to look at things is the GeForce 970 you mentioned had 5.29 billions transistors. The 1060 has 4.4 billion. The 2060 has 10.4 billion. And a 3060 has 13.3 billion, and the 3060 ti has 17 billion.

I'm not saying prices are determined entirely by transistor count. But meaningful die shrinks are getting harder and the cost per transistor may not be be dropping as fast as we're adding them to gain increased performance per generation.

Just because a card has the x60 badging doesn't mean it's really equal cost and complexity to manufacture as as previous x60 hardware. Expecting prices will remain static because older hardware is priced a certain way may be an gross oversimplification of the issues. It may not be entirely, or even mostly "Nvidia just being greedy by charging more."

If the hardware is also more expensive to produce then consumers are going to see that in prices.

[plat]

Well, it's probably meaningful to distinguish NVIDIA's upping the price of the 3080 Ti before its launch (yes, by about 18%). I'm still seeing the earlier cards like the 3070 priced at their original msrp at Best Buy, accompanied by a "sold out" banner.

These were just rumors, after all. By the way, the launch date is supposedly today. Anyone get a lucky break w/a new card?

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Publicado originalmente por plat:

Well, it's probably meaningful to distinguish NVIDIA's upping the price of the 3080 Ti before its launch (yes, by about 18%). I'm still seeing the earlier cards like the 3070 priced at their original msrp at Best Buy, accompanied by a "sold out" banner.

These were just rumors, after all. By the way, the launch date is supposedly today. Anyone get a lucky break w/a new card?

What rumors?

[plat]

Before:

https://www.neowin.net/news/nvidias-geforce-rtx-3080-ti-12gb-reportedly-priced-at-999-launch-in-may/

After:

https://www.neowin.net/news/nvidia-rtx-3080-ti-is-here-more-expensive-than-previously-rumored/

That's the most glaring example that comes to mind.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Oh. Because even Nvidia didn't know what they were pricing it at until the keynote 2 days ago.

[Tiberius]

Not just low supply, but also high demand. There's an entirely new market for gpu now (cryptomining). And with how lucrative it is, ppl are willing to pay gpu much more than its usual price.