Time to Revise the "Steam Subscriber Agreement"

[wwwizzarrdry]

I wonder if i'm the only one in the Steam Universe that strongly feels a change to our subscriber agreement is necessary?

When I purchase a license to game, and that game does not perform as advertised or is just outright broken, I would like some sort of recourse - such as a "Return/Refund" button on games, similar to how Google Play Services allow returns/refunds for a short duration after purchaing a product via the Google Play Store.

Many times now I have given developers my money only to be burned by a half-finished product that I can not return for a refund.

I.E.
*Broken multiplayer / online coop
* Partial controller support when Full Support was advertised
* Game-breaking bugs that prevent various states of game completion
* Developers who promise to patch game issues, then never release the patch
* Requiring third party DRM/content managers that are buggy and crash (uplay, origin, etc, can require me to use their serivce to play a game, but when said service is buggy and crashes multiple times, or doesn't update properly (uplay), again, you have a broken product on your hands)

These types of issues fall outside of Article 3 of the user agreement, yet Steam hides behind that contract like it's a fortress and will refuse you satisfaction. Every other product on earth is legally obligated to "perform as advertised" or else you can exchange it or get a refund. Why do we suddenly sign those rights away when the medium is digitized?

--Am I alone here?

[Satoru]

If you don't like the policy don't buy on steam

It's simple

[Tito Shivan]

Steam Subscriber Agreement (Sec 7C)

C. NO GUARANTEES

NEITHER VALVE NOR ITS AFFILIATES GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S) OR ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH.

[wwwizzarrdry]

Excellent point gentlemen. However, when a product is broken, you still get to return it.
Yes it's sad that product X is broken and I won't be able to use it, but I still get to take it back for an exchange/refund.

Here is a link to my email thread with steam support should anyone care ot take a look: <removed>

[Barnose]

If you bought a game and it doesn't do something it should. There is always a way to fix it. Just use google and someone has already fix that game and beat it without problems.. Uplay however is crap and I think I only have one game that uses it.. (prince of persia) But I can still play it fine with no problems.

I believe the devs make their steam store page and steam don't always know for sure if they made a mistake about controller support or anything that needs patched.. check google and post on that games forums and surely it will be changed to read correctly and work as it should.

Also you could get a refund if it's really a problem. So what game are you talking about? becuase I don't have any problems with any of my games.

[sara_bear]

Yes that would be nice if many of the games that are broken were fixable. When you're lucky a fix can take a month or more sometimes, if you get one at all.

Basically the thought is YOU (steam) sold me a defective product, I (the user) would like a refund.

Heck most of us would be happy if Steam support even offered to help fix them. Good luck getting less than a 3 month turnaround there for even minor problems.

I've got 8 games currently I can't even get to boot. I've posted on the games threads, I've contacted support. What little help (if any) I got was from other users, and still am unable to boot them.

Of the 10 defective products I purchased, I have positive solutions for 2 of them. Both from other users.

Of the 7 times I contacted support (and for many I've given up trying), I gotten 1 nice result. And that was for moving my steam account to a newer computer issues. Never a game issue. Heck support doesn't even keep a record of prior help me requests. Last time I logged on they were all deleted from their server.

Just saying Caveat Empor is a sloppy way of doing business.

[Apostolice]

Define broken. Any company can pull out a normal pc and make it work. Just cause it doesnt work on YOUR pc doesnt mean its broken. Try taking a disc that doesnt work on your xbox and try returning it. If it works when you bring it to gamestop there not refudning you. Same thing with digital.

[sara_bear]

Broken as in can not play title what so ever.

When you check a games requirements and recomendations and your machine has all of the above, there is a reasonable expectation the game will play. So when it doesn't even boot and crashes, I define that as broken. I went into the purchase having done due diligence in operational research.

If I buy a game disc messed up before I bought it, I'm allowed an equal exchange or full refund from everyone else I buy from.

Even from my local gamestop, even on their used products. I know, I have returned things there before, once even getting a 120% return. Bought something on sale, returned 2 days later having found it defective. They insisted on giving me the nonsale price for my return.

[Apostolice]

please tell me how they are going to know if its defective or not?

[wwwizzarrdry]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Barnose:

If you bought a game and it doesn't do something it should. There is always a way to fix it. Just use google and someone has already fix that game and beat it without problems...

I fear you miss the point entirely. If your software doesn't work as advertised, you should be able to seek recourse in the form of a refund. That's all.

A perfect example:
You go to Staples and buy some adhesive velcro,
When you open said package of velcro to mount somehting on the wall, you discover that the packahge is old and the adhesive strip has hardened while sitting on the shelf.

What would be the logical next step?
A) Would you go to the store and get some crazy glue for the back of the defective velcro you just bought?
- OR -
B) Would you just go back to staples and exchange it for another product?


@Apostolice: Gamestop uses the same, out-dated user agreement policy as the rest of these companies. Steam (Valve) just happens to be known as one of the few giants out there that, at least pretends, to care about what their users want.

[Satoru]

If you

1) Go through the support of the 3rd party developer of your game
2) You document that you did so and did EVERYTHING possible
3) You actually meet the minimum requirements of the game

You can get a refund from Steam

The policy is 'no refund'. But you can, in extreme situations, get one.

[sara_bear]

1. Never have gotten a respone yet from one of those. Do I report no responce after a certain number of days?

2. Could you break that down simpler. Should one take a screen photos or?

3. Ok

[sara_bear]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Apostolice:

please tell me how they are going to know if its defective or not?

If actual true help was offered in these situations it wouldn't even be an issue. Or at least they'd be in acknoledgement of an issue actually existing. As it stands now you don't even get that level of respect.

[Satoru]

Początkowo opublikowane przez sara_bear:

1. Never have gotten a respone yet from one of those. Do I report no responce after a certain number of days?

2. Could you break that down simpler. Should one take a screen photos or?

3. Ok

Without documentation from the devs that you cannot absolutely postively get the game working, you're not going to get a refund. What company have you delt with. Even EA and Ubisoft have support lines.

[sara_bear]

Kalypso and Dead mage.

Oh and try getting help from EA support now a days. I've had an open Sims 3 issue for over 6 months now.

So basically.. you are saying if the publishers don't honor their support it's not Steams fault.

If that's the case should Steam keep track of those shaky publishers and notify it's users before hand. Walmart gives out recall lists on things they sold all the time. Target drops products with poor customer support systems. As does Best Buy.

There should be some recourse or warning given, is all I'm saying here.

[wwwizzarrdry]

@Satoru
Although it's good to know you've had success with your refunds, your acceptance of the circumstances worries me.

To put your comment in perspective, you are essentially saying "In order to get refunded for my bad adhesive Velcro strips, I would first have to:
1. Call 3M and verify that the glue on the back of my product was in truth, hardened and unusable.
2. Keep a call log of all my discussions with 3M
3. Prove that I somehow didn't just leave the adhesive strips laying out on my table overnight and now they're useless.
Then after several days, weeks, possibly months dealing with 3M, I might be able to get a refund from Staples?

...am I to assume you actually think this is an acceptable form of recourse for Steam users?
No. Staples will gladly suck it up and give me my refund, then they (staples) can spend all the time in the world dealing with 3M and their defective glue on their own time.