inclusivity and difficulty in games
let me be honest here i'm not the smartest or quickest person in the world but i have always loved video games i started with a nes then a snes before moving into the pc realm my favourite genre has always been rpgs of all kinds, but i have a bit of a gripe with the modern gaming scene, i really don't understand this concept of making games so hard that very few people get to fully experience them to me it just seems cruel to exclude the less talented audience i really don't see why we can't do things like for example DOOM, one of the things i love about that game is the implementation of difficulty levels it really let you play it at whatever skill you are comfortable with which makes me think that is one of the reasons it has been so enduring, i feel that many games are not being picked up or refunded purely for this reason and i see no reason why that cannot be adopted by modern devs i think that if you diversified your games more you would see more sales and more player engagement, there is a lot of very average humans out there in this big world that love video games but are feeling a bit excluded i just wanted to share this with any potential devs out there and say i love your work but just go easy on some of us less talented audience members, anyway i hope you all have a lovely day, peace. :)
< >
Visar 1-15 av 20 kommentarer
Mad Scientist 11 jan, 2024 @ 16:29 
If you have game-specific suggestions, contact the Developer or use their Game Hub.

Additionally, I strongly suggest reading this thread:
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/135507548120407092/
Gwarsbane 11 jan, 2024 @ 16:41 
This is the wrong place to complain about such stuff, this is the suggestions and ideas areas to make the steam client and website better.

Its not about modern gaming its about what the developer of the game decides to do. There was a few NES and SNES games that was very hard. Look up a game called Battletoads and some of the TMNT games from back then too.

Posting here about how hard games are will do nothing. Why? Because Valve doesn't tell other game makers how to make their games and other game makers aren't coming here to see what people want to see in their games.


Lots of games have difficulty levels. Lots of games don't. If a game doesn't and you find it too hard, then go complain to the developer of that game to include a difficulty level.

Some developers are working on game systems that will adjust the difficulty of the game on the fly depending on how good or bad you are doing. I'm not sure I like this unless you can turn that feature off in the game and just leave it on a specific difficulty.
If a game developer does not want to add a lower difficulty, that does not mean they don't care about you, it's just more practical to establish what should be a "balanced" experience for the overall audience. Also, when you provide an easy path, people tend to take it because it's within the rules of the game.

Ideally when you balance a game, something like the Dark Souls in this case, you thinking ahead , maybe the sword kills in 5 hits, a spear might kill in 3, and you have to keep in mind how the player makes progress through the game, you don't want to keep lowering the difficulty until the scaling does not work.

Also, what is a lower difficulty for you may not be low enough for someone else. So the options that game provides should make some sense in terms of scaling and how numbers interact together.

I don't think you are wrong to ask for it, but the developer is also not obligated to change things about the game.

Also this argument where low difficulty creates more engagement can be false, the last time I checked the Soul games have been doing really well despite being generally some of the harder games, at least in the mainstream. If anything, they would lose players because players might not feel like the game offers the equal level of challenge, everyone is in the same boat.
Senast ändrad av American Dove Mitten; 11 jan, 2024 @ 17:09
Pocahawtness 11 jan, 2024 @ 19:29 
Ursprungligen skrivet av Sparky mark phillips:
let me be honest here i'm not the smartest or quickest person in the world but i have always loved video games i started with a nes then a snes before moving into the pc realm my favourite genre has always been rpgs of all kinds, but i have a bit of a gripe with the modern gaming scene, i really don't understand this concept of making games so hard that very few people get to fully experience them to me it just seems cruel to exclude the less talented audience i really don't see why we can't do things like for example DOOM, one of the things i love about that game is the implementation of difficulty levels it really let you play it at whatever skill you are comfortable with which makes me think that is one of the reasons it has been so enduring, i feel that many games are not being picked up or refunded purely for this reason and i see no reason why that cannot be adopted by modern devs i think that if you diversified your games more you would see more sales and more player engagement, there is a lot of very average humans out there in this big world that love video games but are feeling a bit excluded i just wanted to share this with any potential devs out there and say i love your work but just go easy on some of us less talented audience members, anyway i hope you all have a lovely day, peace. :)

It makes no sense to me why devs would exclude certain players. They don't have to make the game easier, they just have to add different difficulty levels and make sure the easy ones are really easy.... just as they make sure the difficult ones are really difficult.
Ursprungligen skrivet av Pirate☠️Pocah:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Sparky mark phillips:
let me be honest here i'm not the smartest or quickest person in the world but i have always loved video games i started with a nes then a snes before moving into the pc realm my favourite genre has always been rpgs of all kinds, but i have a bit of a gripe with the modern gaming scene, i really don't understand this concept of making games so hard that very few people get to fully experience them to me it just seems cruel to exclude the less talented audience i really don't see why we can't do things like for example DOOM, one of the things i love about that game is the implementation of difficulty levels it really let you play it at whatever skill you are comfortable with which makes me think that is one of the reasons it has been so enduring, i feel that many games are not being picked up or refunded purely for this reason and i see no reason why that cannot be adopted by modern devs i think that if you diversified your games more you would see more sales and more player engagement, there is a lot of very average humans out there in this big world that love video games but are feeling a bit excluded i just wanted to share this with any potential devs out there and say i love your work but just go easy on some of us less talented audience members, anyway i hope you all have a lovely day, peace. :)

It makes no sense to me why devs would exclude certain players. They don't have to make the game easier, they just have to add different difficulty levels and make sure the easy ones are really easy.... just as they make sure the difficult ones are really difficult.
Video games are for everyone. Doesn't mean every video game is for everyone.
Start_Running 11 jan, 2024 @ 19:36 
Ursprungligen skrivet av Pirate☠️Pocah:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Sparky mark phillips:
let me be honest here i'm not the smartest or quickest person in the world but i have always loved video games i started with a nes then a snes before moving into the pc realm my favourite genre has always been rpgs of all kinds, but i have a bit of a gripe with the modern gaming scene, i really don't understand this concept of making games so hard that very few people get to fully experience them to me it just seems cruel to exclude the less talented audience i really don't see why we can't do things like for example DOOM, one of the things i love about that game is the implementation of difficulty levels it really let you play it at whatever skill you are comfortable with which makes me think that is one of the reasons it has been so enduring, i feel that many games are not being picked up or refunded purely for this reason and i see no reason why that cannot be adopted by modern devs i think that if you diversified your games more you would see more sales and more player engagement, there is a lot of very average humans out there in this big world that love video games but are feeling a bit excluded i just wanted to share this with any potential devs out there and say i love your work but just go easy on some of us less talented audience members, anyway i hope you all have a lovely day, peace. :)

It makes no sense to me why devs would exclude certain players. They don't have to make the game easier, they just have to add different difficulty levels and make sure the easy ones are really easy.... just as they make sure the difficult ones are really difficult.
That takes a lot of work and really why go to that much work to make the game appealing to those outside your core audience? It's Like Trying to produce "Mild Ghostfire Pepper Sauce."

Some game genres are predicated on their insane difficulty. See the entire "Bullet Hell" Genre. Or The Roguelike Genre. Or the SOuls-Like Genre. THe dev can choose to cater to newbies, to cater to the average or cater to the hardcore. If you try to please all 3 at once. You're not gonna really please anyone.
Pierce Dalton 11 jan, 2024 @ 19:43 
Ursprungligen skrivet av Start_Running:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Pirate☠️Pocah:

It makes no sense to me why devs would exclude certain players. They don't have to make the game easier, they just have to add different difficulty levels and make sure the easy ones are really easy.... just as they make sure the difficult ones are really difficult.
That takes a lot of work and really why go to that much work to make the game appealing to those outside your core audience? It's Like Trying to produce "Mild Ghostfire Pepper Sauce."

Some game genres are predicated on their insane difficulty. See the entire "Bullet Hell" Genre. Or The Roguelike Genre. Or the SOuls-Like Genre. THe dev can choose to cater to newbies, to cater to the average or cater to the hardcore. If you try to please all 3 at once. You're not gonna really please anyone.

Well, you would be correct if facts backed this assumption but they don't. Many games with 3 (or more) difficulty levels have received universal acclaim, which means they pleased a lot of people. Examples are many, let me know if you need some.
Shreddy 11 jan, 2024 @ 20:02 
A lot of these types of games are built around challenge and difficulty so when you add an easy mode it really takes away from what makes the game great in the first place so it doesn't really attract as many casuals as you might think as the game is now a boring husk and it also drives away the more serious players who aren't interested in things like achievement hunting for games that have an easy mode.

These devs know exactly who their player base is and for the most part do a great job of catering to it. The best thing to do with difficult games if you insist on playing them but refuse to learn the mechanics (lets be honest most of them are easy with some patience and study) is to look into what easy mode mods are available and trainers/cheat engine.
Pierce Dalton 11 jan, 2024 @ 20:06 
Ursprungligen skrivet av Shreddy:
A lot of these types of games are built around challenge and difficulty so when you add an easy mode it really takes away from what makes the game great in the first place so it doesn't really attract as many casuals as you might think as the game is now a boring husk and it also drives away the more serious players who aren't interested in things like achievement hunting for games that have an easy mode.

These devs know exactly who their player base is and for the most part do a great job of catering to it. The best thing to do with difficult games if you insist on playing them but refuse to learn the mechanics (lets be honest most of them are easy with some patience and study) is to look into what easy mode mods are available and trainers/cheat engine.

On the contrary, an easier mode doesn't take anything away from a game, it only adds something. Those who want the hardcore experience can still have it, there's no reason to lose interest in the game.
Senast ändrad av Pierce Dalton; 11 jan, 2024 @ 20:06
Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Shreddy:
A lot of these types of games are built around challenge and difficulty so when you add an easy mode it really takes away from what makes the game great in the first place so it doesn't really attract as many casuals as you might think as the game is now a boring husk and it also drives away the more serious players who aren't interested in things like achievement hunting for games that have an easy mode.

These devs know exactly who their player base is and for the most part do a great job of catering to it. The best thing to do with difficult games if you insist on playing them but refuse to learn the mechanics (lets be honest most of them are easy with some patience and study) is to look into what easy mode mods are available and trainers/cheat engine.

On the contrary, an easier mode doesn't take anything away from a game, it only adds something. Those who want the hardcore experience can still have it, there's no reason to lose interest in the game.
Trivially easy to debunk this "choices are good" sort of talk as nonsense when you see how few games that are trivially easy ever get hard modes
Pierce Dalton 11 jan, 2024 @ 20:22 
Ursprungligen skrivet av William Shakesman:
Ursprungligen skrivet av Pierce Dalton:

On the contrary, an easier mode doesn't take anything away from a game, it only adds something. Those who want the hardcore experience can still have it, there's no reason to lose interest in the game.
Trivially easy to debunk this "choices are good" sort of talk as nonsense when you see how few games that are trivially easy ever get hard modes

And that's a shame, because sometimes people wish they had a harder mode. GTA IV and V, for example, are games that I like but I find them too easy. Replaying them on a harder difficulty would be interesting.
Tito Shivan 11 jan, 2024 @ 23:55 
Ursprungligen skrivet av Sparky mark phillips:
i really don't understand this concept of making games so hard that very few people get to fully experience them to me
On one side, there's the developer 'vision' on how they want their game to be. The developer simply WANTS the game to behave the way it does. On the other there's pleasing a subset of gamers who are competitive, who thrive in 'challenge'.

At the end of the day not every game has to appeal to you.

I'd personally love for every game to have an 'easy mode'. My reaction times aren't what they used to. I no longer have that many time available to 'git gud' at games... and all that jazz. But I understand when a developer says 'I don't think it'll fit for my game' and sticks to his guns.

Accessibility is a totally different subject and it's something devs should put more effort into. Mind it doesn't necessarily have to do with altering game difficulty. A game not allowing you to fully remap their controls has an accessibility problem, but not a difficulty one. Likewise for not adding visual clues to sounds, colorblind friendly modes, FoV sliders or being able to disable motion blur or head bobbing are all Accessibility features that don't mess with the game difficutly at all.

I don't think even the people who defend difficulty in their games are against the games being accessible to people.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Shreddy:
A lot of these types of games are built around challenge and difficulty so when you add an easy mode it really takes away from what makes the game great in the first place
Maybe what makes the game great for you isn't what makes it great for others. You'd be surprising about what people can find fun in games.

If Dark Souls was easy I'd still engage with the game because what attracts me to it isn't the challenge, but the art design and the tons of lore built in the game.

I've played Payday2 for hundreds of hours never touching the harder difficulty levels because what I find fun about the game is to chill out mowing enemies like a breeze as if I was John Wick on steroids.

There's many ways a game can be 'great' for people. Difficulty and challenge are only one of them.

Ursprungligen skrivet av William Shakesman:
Trivially easy to debunk this "choices are good" sort of talk as nonsense when you see how few games that are trivially easy ever get hard modes
For the most part it's the same both sides of the road. Games usually don't change that much in that regard.

Few games built around challenge change to add easier modes. Likewise few games built around 'casual' difficulties change to add challenge and harder modes.

Then there's all the ones in the middle with varying degrees of difficulty.

The challenging games usually don't want the 'casuals' getting it easy and the casual players don't want the tryhards bossing around. Both sides are comfortable in their niche and devs know it.
Sleepy Yoshi 12 jan, 2024 @ 0:14 
Ursprungligen skrivet av SlowMango:
Video games are for everyone. Doesn't mean every video game is for everyone.

^Pretty much this. In general I'm all for difficulty options even though I tend to find them lacklustre. But if a developer wants to develop a game around a certain audience (in this case those who look for difficulty) I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that.

I personally don't find artificial difficulty very compelling. That being scaling AI resources up or down (HP, damage, actual resources etc depending on genre) or scaling player resources down based on the difficulty chosen. That's all that difficulty options tend to do in a lot of game's.

I appreciate games that add in new mechanics and/or boss attack patterns etc. with difficulty increases, but that's a different design paradigm then balancing everything around 'normal' which is imo what most studio's are really doing.
Senast ändrad av Sleepy Yoshi; 12 jan, 2024 @ 0:15
< >
Visar 1-15 av 20 kommentarer
Per sida: 1530 50

Datum skrivet: 11 jan, 2024 @ 16:22
Inlägg: 20