Why can't we trade used games?

[Ste Wilko]

Why does this only apply to PC gamers? The cost for a PC game is roughly the same as a console (e.g. CoD: Advanced Warfare) yet we can't trade 'em when we get bored, unlike our console counterparts. How is that fair?

If we can't trade 'em then we shouldn't be paying the same as the console guys!

[Fox]

Originally posted by Ste Wilko:

Why does this only apply to PC gamers? The cost for a PC game is roughly the same as a console (e.g. CoD: Advanced Warfare) yet we can't trade 'em when we get bored, unlike our console counterparts. How is that fair?

If we can't trade 'em then we shouldn't be paying the same as the console guys!

You are most likely not, as some PC games can be dirt cheap to obtain. You mentioned by name an infamous exception.

This was discussed to death already : as publishers would lose money, the only way to make them do it is, at best, a felony-grade persuasion.

[Zefar]

Originally posted by Ste Wilko:

Why does this only apply to PC gamers? The cost for a PC game is roughly the same as a console (e.g. CoD: Advanced Warfare) yet we can't trade 'em when we get bored, unlike our console counterparts. How is that fair?

If we can't trade 'em then we shouldn't be paying the same as the console guys!

You ain't paying the same as console guys. When I look in retail sites the PC gamers are always the cheapest on launch.

On Steam we can have up to 90% sale. Ever seen that on a console game that was released last year? I doubt it. Hell even one that is several years old might not get that much sale on it.

[Falro the Great]

To add to what the others are saying, there's no such thing as a used digital game. Since there is no physical product, the quality never degrades, and as such, the game is always "new", so to speak. Plus, who's to stop you from making a backup copy and playing that, after you've already sold the game?

[Yirg]

Publishers should allow it and get their cut, and Steam should get its cut too. This way everyone wins - publishers, Steam and gamers. The only challenge is defining the right cut that increases the overall revenue and ensures the bottom line of Publishers and Steam is higher than it is today, otherwise it would never happen. It probably needs to be game specific definition, depending on replay value.

[Falro the Great]

Originally posted by Yirg:

Publishers should allow it and get their cut, and Steam should get its cut too. This way everyone wins - publishers, Steam and gamers. The only challenge is defining the right cut that increases the overall revenue and ensures the bottom line of Publishers and Steam is higher than it is today, otherwise it would never happen. It probably needs to be game specific definition, depending on replay value.

If given a choce between making (for example) 70% on a full-price $39.99 game, or making 50% on a $5.99 re-sale, which would you choose?

Publishers just wouldn't do it. And if Steam tried to force them to, it would be dead in weeks, for sure.

[Yirg]

Originally posted by Falro the Great:

To add to what the others are saying, there's no such thing as a used digital game. Since there is no physical product, the quality never degrades, and as such, the game is always "new", so to speak.

Console games don't degrade either, yet they are tradeable.

Plus, who's to stop you from making a backup copy and playing that, after you've already sold the game?

Easy. Steam should only allow a user to trade a game once its uninstalled. They can also allow it only for games with strict cloud license enforcement (i.e. no offline mode support).

[HLCinSC]

It is not a "PC" only policy/problem. It is a digital games proble. You cannot resell games purchased on Steam, Origin, Uplay, Playstation network, xbox live, whatever Nintendo's is called, Apple's app store, Google Play's store, and on and on and on....

[Falro the Great]

Originally posted by Yirg:

Originally posted by Falro the Great:

To add to what the others are saying, there's no such thing as a used digital game. Since there is no physical product, the quality never degrades, and as such, the game is always "new", so to speak.

Console games don't degrade either, yet they are tradeable.

Physical copies of games WILL degrade after a certain amount of time. Plus, have you ever traded in a digital console game?

Originally posted by Yirg:

Easy. Steam should only allow a user to trade a game once its uninstalled. They can also allow it only for games with strict cloud license enforcement (i.e. no offline mode support).

Again, what's to stop users from copying the game files, putting them onto a flash drive or another computer, and profiting?

[Yirg]

Originally posted by Falro the Great:

If given a choce between making (for example) 70% on a full-price $39.99 game, or making 50% on a $5.99 re-sale, which would you choose?

Publishers just wouldn't do it. And if Steam tried to force them to, it would be dead in weeks, for sure.

Publishers can define what games can be traded and at what stage in their life cycle.

A game that's freshly released, costs $40 and has replay value should go for something like $35 in trades, not $6. For gamers, the pricing needs to be appealing enough to buy games they would otherwise skip, not buy at a discount games they intended to buy at a full price.

[Yirg]

Originally posted by Falro the Great:

Physical copies of games WILL degrade after a certain amount of time.

In theory. It's not that difficult to keep a commercially printed optical disc in perfect working condition. What console players are paying/trading for is the ability to play a game, not the value of having something they can hold. The same logic can apply to digitally distributed games, if game publishers allowed it.

Plus, have you ever traded in a digital console game?

I never owned a console and never will, but I know people trade games.

Again, what's to stop users from copying the game files, putting them onto a flash drive or another computer, and profiting?

Constant cloud-base license enforcement. The game simply refuses to run if it cannot verify that the new owner is allowed to run it. It needs online access to Steam (or other similar platforms) to verify it. It's not enough for it to be on the machine of the user.

[Ste Wilko]

Not all games purchased are digital copies. I have several games where they were purchased as DVD's (black ops 2, ghosts, marvell lego). You still have to have Steam and once you install the game and put the serial key in, that's it done. Linked to your Steam account until you're dead.

Also, what you're saying Fairo about what's to stop people selling the game and keeping the game files etc. That wouldn't work, because all Steam would need to do is remove the serial key from your account and allocate it to the person you trade with. Then, if you tried to install the game again with the serial key it would notify you that it's already in use, as it does now; then you can't use it unless you go and buy a new copy from Steam or wherever.

As it stands, if you buy a console game it is yours for as long as you want it and you can do what you want with it. But for PC gamers that's not the case, because when you buy a game that requires a clien like Steam the serial key (whether it is a digital download or physical CD/DVD) gets assigned to your Steam account and there is no way to remove it, also it becomes the property of Steam and not the user. So if you decied that you wanted to close your Steam account you lose all that money you have spent purchasing the games, whereas if you decided to get rid of your games console you simply trade it in at a second hand shop or sell it on eBay along with your games. Or you can trade in older games towards the cost of a new one that you really one

[Yirg]

Originally posted by HLCinSC:

It is not a "PC" only policy/problem. It is a digital games proble. You cannot resell games purchased on Steam, Origin, Uplay, Playstation network, xbox live, whatever Nintendo's is called, Apple's app store, Google Play's store, and on and on and on....

You cannot because they don't allow it, not because it technically impossible to implement, nor because there's no business model where it could benefit all parties. We're not there yet, because it's not trivial to get the pricing right*, but I'm sure it's possible and will eventually happen, possibly by platforms that need to find a competitive advantage that will help them break Steam's dominance (e.g. Origin or Uplay).

* Getting the pricing right means it can't be too low (or no-one would buy new games) and it can't be too high (or no-one would trade). It has to be finely tuned to get those who wouldn't pay for a new game be tempted to trade for one, while giving the publisher and Steam their share from the transaction.

[Pupiii]

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[Ste Wilko]

Originally posted by Yirg:

Originally posted by HLCinSC:

It is not a "PC" only policy/problem. It is a digital games proble. You cannot resell games purchased on Steam, Origin, Uplay, Playstation network, xbox live, whatever Nintendo's is called, Apple's app store, Google Play's store, and on and on and on....

You cannot because they don't allow it, not because it technically impossible to implement, nor because there's no business model where it could benefit all parties. We're not there yet, because it's not trivial to get the pricing right*, but I'm sure it's possible and will eventually happen, possibly by platforms that needs to find a way to break Steam's dominance (e.g. Origin or Uplay).

Getting the pricing right means it can't be too low (or no-one would buy new games) and it can't be too high (or no-one would trade). It has to be finely tuned to get those who wouldn't pay for a new game be tempted to trade for one, while giving the publisher and Steam their share from the transaction.

Price has nothing to do with it really. The user should be able to set the price, like on eBay etc. If I was to buy a brand new game on release I'm not realistically going to be wanting to sell it in the next week or so (unless it's totally gash), but I might further on down the line. Now if I want to sell it to another Steam user, who might not actually have bought the same game due to the retail cost, I should be able to.

Private trades should have nothing to do with the developers, just like they don't for console games/CD's/DVDs or blu-rays.

I'm not against Steam taking a percentage, for hosting the transaction, though

[Spawn of Totoro]

This has been over many times alread. Please do a forum search if you wish to read the previous discussions on it. They have been the same every time.