Implement 'pay what you want' (PWYW) or 'pay it forward' (PIF) pricing.

[Arrowgance]

Such pricing systems could be applied to trading, store games etc. (alongside the existing model). PWYW is self explanatory, but this may or may not involve a minimum required donation. PIF is an old but growing concept. It entails receiving a good from the preceding customer, instead of the original benefactor. Then you consider paying for the succeeding customer's purchase (you'd be surprised how generous people are).

How feasible and/or preferable do you think this is on Steam?

[Zefar]

Every gamer out there would pick the cheapest price they could. This would massively hurt the developers. Probably to the point where they would avoid Steam.

[Arrowgance]

Цитата допису Zefar:

Every gamer out there would pick the cheapest price they could. This would massively hurt the developers. Probably to the point where they would avoid Steam.

If the developers didn't want to use PWYW then they wouldn't. Like others have said in this discussion, PYWY would be better than, say, buying multiple copies of the game to support the developers. People love throwing cash at causes they believe in. It fuels crowdfunding. PYWY encourages that. <removed>

[Spawn of Totoro]

Цитата допису Equalizer:

If the developers didn't want to use PWYW then they wouldn't. Like others have said in this discussion, PYWY would be better than, say, buying multiple copies of the game to support the developers. People love throwing cash at causes they believe in. It fuels crowdfunding.

They wouldn't be throwing cash out for a cause or for crowdfunding. They would be purchasing games.

PWYW has nothing to do with either of those. It is just a payment mechanic that they use.

Same for adding a minimal. By adding a minimal, it is no longer a PWYW system, it is a purchase at X and give us more.

Despite the charity aspect of Humble Bundle, people go there to buy games, not make a donation. Remove the games and they would hardly get any money.

PWYW only encourages people wo buy games cheap and in bulk. As a short time thing, like Humbe Bundle, it is fine. As a permanent way to sell games, developers would have to shut down or find a diffrent source of income.

Any discussion of piracy is against the rules and a permanent ban. Please do not bring that up again.

[Arrowgance]

Цитата допису Spawn of Totoro:

By adding a minimal, it is no longer a PWYW system, it is a purchase at X and give us more.

It's still PWYW. I agree that it's not a donation if there is a minimun, but the donations begins where the RRP stops.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Цитата допису Equalizer:

It's still PWYW. I agree that it's not a donation if there is a minimun, but the donations begins where the RRP stops.

Donations to a charity are tax deductable, not donations to a developer. It isn't a donation if it counts as a profit for the deveoper and since developers are a for profit...

PWYW is just that, pay what you want. Even paying over the RRP is still just paying for the game, you are just paying more for it then others.

It will even be taxed as such, if you live where taxes are collected on internet/digital sales.

A $100 PWYW at 20% tax pays $120. The same game where someone chooses to pay $200 is still taxed at the 20% tax rate so pays $240 total.

[*fu* Dr.n00b]

PWYW = No need for steam sales!

[Satoru]

@equalizer I'm not going to respond to the fact that you just copy and pasted a wikipedia article without any actual CONTEXT nor an actual ARGUMENT either.

Again you don't address the main issue. Humble Bundle and other such things did what Steam sales never did. Massively devalue indie games to the point where $1 is 'too much'. Steam sales never did that. in fact sales has a gigatnic halo effect to increase sales even AFTER a sale. Your own link suggest the exact opposite effect in fact. You only cherry picked out the 'nice' quote from McMillen without reading teh stuff BEFORE it

While the Humble Bundles are an excellent way for popular games to get a final boost in sales as well as to help lesser-known games get more attention, statistics have shown that sales dipped more in the years when Binding of Isaac and Super Meat Boy were in bundles than they were in following years.

Aka sales were worse during bundle years, than they were afterwards.

Just because there are more bundle sites doesnt negate anything I said. In fact it enforces the entire idea taht an indie game should be less than $1 or ina bundle.They've created an EXPECTATION of it now. Not a 'special' thing. Thats the problem.

Things are far far worse now for indie gamers as not only do you have visibilty problems on Steam, but now your pricing has to be so low because everyone 'expects' to be in a bundle.

[Arrowgance]

Цитата допису Spawn of Totoro:

Donations to a charity are tax deductable, not donations to a developer. It isn't a donation if it counts as a profit for the deveoper and since developers are a for profit...

I see. You're using 'donation' as its defined in legal terminology, and in that case you're right as donations can only be made to non-profit charitable organisations. I'm defining 'donation' simply as a gift.

Цитата допису Spawn of Totoro:

By adding a minimal, it is no longer a PWYW system

"Pay what you want (or PWYW) is a pricing strategy where buyers pay any desired amount for a given commodity, sometimes including zero." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_what_you_want

[Spawn of Totoro]

Цитата допису Equalizer:

"Pay what you want (or PWYW) is a pricing strategy where buyers pay any desired amount for a given commodity, sometimes including zero." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_what_you_want

"where buyers pay any desired amount for a given commodity"

If you restrict the amount, it is no longer "any". Any amount is 1 cent or more.

Also, try using a real disctionary and not wikipedia when giving a definition. Wikipedia has a bad rep when it comes to information for a reason.

Цитата допису Equalizer:

I see. You're using 'donation' as its defined in legal terminology, and in that case you're right as donations can only be made to non-profit charitable organisations. I'm defining 'donation' simply as a gift.

Doesn't matter how you define it. The legal term is what is important.

[Arrowgance]

Цитата допису Satoru:

@equalizer I'm not going to respond to the fact that you just copy and pasted a wikipedia article without any actual CONTEXT nor an actual ARGUMENT either.

Sorry. This is the context. I shouldn't have ignored it.

Цитата допису Satoru:

For devs Humble is probably literally the worst thing to ever happen to indie gaming.

Since then I see you've moved the goal posts to...

Цитата допису Satoru:

sales were worse during bundle years, than they were afterwards

...wherein the Wikipedia article cites two games were hurt in sales, and even the developer says “Humble Bundles neither hurt nor help in the long run".

Цитата допису Satoru:

Massively devalue indie games to the point where $1 is 'too much

I prefer to use the word price, instead of value.

Also, I didn't cherry pick information. I just disproved:

Цитата допису Satoru:

For devs Humble is probably literally the worst thing to ever happen to indie gaming.

What I didn't say, however, is something along the lines of 'For devs Humble is probably literally the worst best thing to ever happen to indie gaming'. If I was rationalising such an argument, then yes, I would be cherry picking information. Then arguments like the hurt sales may have undermined my point. But I never argued such a position.

[Arrowgance]

Цитата допису Spawn of Totoro:

Also, try using a real disctionary and not wikipedia when giving a definition. Wikipedia has a bad rep when it comes to information for a reason.

Wikipedia is not a 'disctionary'. Appeal to dictionary fallacy: http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/27-appeal-to-definition

Цитата допису Spawn of Totoro:

A gift is not a donation. Those are two diffrent things.

Donation: A donation is a gift given by physical or legal persons, typically for charitable purposes and/or to benefit a cause.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation

Donation: something (such as money, food, clothes, etc.) that you give in order to help a person or organization

a free contribution : gift

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/donation

I don't mind wheter it's called a gift or donation. It doesn't affect my original point.

[ShiningDragon]

Are there no official dictionary for the english language outside, so that you could clear the definition of donation / gift?

In fact you're in an easy situation... do you have any idea how many words for gift in german exists, with slightly different meanings?

Geschenk, Gabe, Angebinde, Donum, Präsent (ä = ae), Dedikation, Mitgebringe, Mitbringsel, Schenkung, Danaergeschenk, Widmung, Aufmerksamkeit, Give-away (hah! stolen from the english language!) and geben.

Any questions? *buck*

The german tax authoritys differs between gifts and donations. So i think, even in the english language there must be a difference.

But... is this the topic of this thread?

[Arrowgance]

Цитата допису ShiningDragon:

But... is this the topic of this thread?

Nope.

[supertrooper225]

It is a business, not a charity. A system like this would bankrupt developers.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Don't see what the fuss is about. As long as the choice of payment model (or models) used is up to developers there's zero problem. If devs think a non-minimum PWYW model will hurt them then they won't use it, but a minimum + "tip" option I feel is a great idea and other services like Humble and itch.io already offer it.