Allow us to stop updates from happening; Unity is malware

[Jimmio92]

Old steam client allowed you to run your game even if it wasn't up to date. That feature was removed because I assume Valve agreed with Microsoft -- auto updates benefit the user.

That's not the case at all. Unity just recently merged with a known malware publisher. I have 30 some games made in Unity, and they're all completely trash if they update again, because we, the users, cannot know for sure if the underlying engine has been updated to include adware crap from ironSource. ironSource is responsible for InstallCore, which installed other applications during a normal install, some of which were known malware. That product died after Sophos, Microsoft Essential, and Malwarebytes blacklisted it, but the terrible business practices are still there.

Valve, protect your users. Allow us to stop updates. Allow me to keep my 30 or so Unity games that I paid hard earned money for.

[Crashed]

Spawn of Totoro původně napsal:

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

They just partnered with ironSource. It's not malware *yet*. I simply want Valve to allow me to not update a title if I so choose because Unity titles WILL BE malware.

Repeat after me: Contribute to the conversation or leave.

InstallCore was not malware and never was. It was simply used by others to distribute malware.

ironSource had poor management and likely no vetting process to remove bad actors, but they didn't make malware. Since then, they started a mobile ad services that Unity has been using for a long time already and the reason Unity merged with ironSource.

Anti-virus/malware programs labeled InstallCore as malware, due to the how others used it, not because it self was malware.

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

Yes, let me just fire up my time machine, jump a year into the future or more, decompile the Unity player, reverse engineer the entire f-ing thing, then I'll just jump back to now to give you a link to the actual proof :) It just hit the news. They just announced it. There's no way of proving *either way*.

You can only prove it, if malware is added. If it is never added, then you can never prove it will never be added. This is true of ANY software.

Can you prove that Steam will not contain malware in the future? How about any on-line service or any other game you download or program you install?

Unity has far better (true and current) things that can be criticized then the possibility of malware in the future. A possibility that is very unlikely as that would lead to every platform removing Unity games an destroying their company.

At the very least, InstallCore is a PUP because it was injected into program installers that asked if you wanted to install unrelated software, for which it defaulted to enabled. Thus, if you are the one who just clicks, Next, Agree, Next, Next, Next you'll get a surprise.

It's unlikely this would be added to Steam games because their first time install is almost always headless, with only a couple exceptions for third-party launchers and the MSVC 2005 redists which don't support silent install, only automatic with a Windows Installer GUI.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Crashed původně napsal:

At the very least, InstallCore is a PUP because it was injected into program installers that asked if you wanted to install unrelated software, for which it defaulted to enabled. Thus, if you are the one who just clicks, Next, Agree, Next, Next, Next you'll get a surprise.

It's unlikely this would be added to Steam games because their first time install is almost always headless, with only a couple exceptions for third-party launchers and the MSVC 2005 redists which don't support silent install, only automatic with a Windows Installer GUI.

As is most software. I recall Adobe automatically checking the box on their site to download and install Norton or McAfee, yet it wasn't detected as a PUP or classified as malware, nor was Adobe labeled a malware developer.

And what about Ubisoft Connect an Electronic Arts games on Steam? You are forced to download their clients to run the game as well, despite user's objections.

But none of them downloaded malware is really the only difference.

[Jimmio92]

Start_Running původně napsal:

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

Yes, let me just fire up my time machine, jump a year into the future or more, decompile the Unity player, reverse engineer the entire f-ing thing, then I'll just jump back to now to give you a link to the actual proof :) It just hit the news. They just announced it. There's no way of proving *either way*.

SO yeah. You have no way of proving anything, heck the company they merged with doesn't even produce malware it produces tools that are used by malware creators. I mean. Most viruses and malware are compiled in C/C+++ ergo C/C++ must be malware right?" That's what you're saying.

Unity would be very stupid to put malware in their software . Because you know, the legal repurcussions would be BIBLICAL. Like seriously. DO you think there'd be any gain worth having your company sued into a blackhole and your name becoming a black mark?

Yes, C and C++, the programming language that runs the entirety of the modern world's backbone, that I write software in every day of my life, is the problem, obviously. That's not at all a good simile for what I'm saying. They're completely legitimate concerns that can be solved with WHAT THIS POST WAS ABOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE -- allowing us to stop updates on a title.

Unity is run by the former president of Electronic Arts now. Unity has never been profitable aside from lying to their investors about some new feature that they just go and drop immediately, then a bunch of corporate shuffling to make it look like they're fixing it. They can't even make a game in their own engine because of how time consuming/terrible it is to develop with. Literally dropped their only game title. They ARE stupid. They already do put analytics and tracking info in games, they already do make money off of that data either directly or indirectly.

They are only after profits because they continue to make terrible business decisions and the gaming community as a whole is directly impacted by their mistakes.

Also repercussions*.

[Brian9824]

So basically still nothing but your baseless fear that one day they might put spyware in unity despite the logical fact that it would quickly be found and they would be shut down because of it?

[Jimmio92]

This community blows; I should have never taken the advice of the Steam support agent to post here.

[Brian9824]

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

This community blows; I should have never taken the advice of the Steam support agent to post here.

Steam support tells anyone who asks them about stuff they don't handle to post here to get rid of them.

[Mad Scientist]

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

This community blows; I should have never taken the advice of the Steam support agent to post here.

That's them telling you in a polite way that what you're messaging them about isn't Account & Billing related which is the point of Steam Support.

If they don't handle it, they point you to the forum automatically. That does not guarantee any one thing will be well-received, especially when it's based off of misinformation.

[Phoenix]

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

This community blows; I should have never taken the advice of the Steam support agent to post here.

Maybe not making baseless claims and spreading FUD might also have helped? Just a thought. But I guess blaming others is easier and more convenient.

[Jimmio92]

Somebody původně napsal:

..snip..

As is most software. I recall Adobe automatically checking the box on their site to download and install Norton or McAfee, yet it wasn't detected as a PUP or classified as malware, nor was Adobe labeled a malware developer.

And what about Ubisoft Connect an Electronic Arts games on Steam? You are forced to download their clients to run the game as well, despite user's objections.

But none of them downloaded malware is really the only difference.

Adobe is so bad that Flash is gone aside from Scaleform and whatever the hell they renamed it as to attempt to sidestep that it's full of security holes. On top of that, they're corporate scum. Their products get more expensive and worse every year; and now you can't even own the license to the products. BMW caught wind of that licensing model for their fscking seat heaters, now, but I digress.

Ubisoft? Really? You mean the idiots who had a breach and leaked my password hash that then got tried on every account I own, two of which happened to have the same password (learned my lesson big time that day), same hash, and no salt added? That Ubisoft? The last EA product I purchased was SimCity and it was a giant let down. The last Ubisoft game was free because it's trash and it got two of my accounts sold to Mexicans. Good to know Ubisoft, Netflix, and Spotify all use the same password hashing algorithm *with no salt added*, right? They only have your credit card information, address, home phone number...

But back on fscking topic, automatic updates aren't secure. Allow us to selectively disable updates, Valve. To the rest of the community, learn how to communicate and not just flame the fsck out of someone and get so far off topic that you have to resort to sexual harassment? Maybe?

[Start_Running]

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

Start_Running původně napsal:

SO yeah. You have no way of proving anything, heck the company they merged with doesn't even produce malware it produces tools that are used by malware creators. I mean. Most viruses and malware are compiled in C/C+++ ergo C/C++ must be malware right?" That's what you're saying.

Unity would be very stupid to put malware in their software . Because you know, the legal repurcussions would be BIBLICAL. Like seriously. DO you think there'd be any gain worth having your company sued into a blackhole and your name becoming a black mark?

Yes, C and C++, the programming language that runs the entirety of the modern world's backbone, that I write software in every day of my life, is the problem, obviously. That's not at all a good simile for what I'm saying. They're completely legitimate concerns that can be solved with WHAT THIS POST WAS ABOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE -- allowing us to stop updates on a title.

That's the call of the title's dev/pub. Steam delivers the updates as directed by said dev/pub.

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

Unity is run by the former president of Electronic Arts now. Unity has never been profitable aside from lying to their investors about some new feature that they just go and drop immediately, then a bunch of corporate shuffling to make it look like they're fixing it. They can't even make a game in their own engine because of how time consuming/terrible it is to develop with.

WHich is a strange thing to say since there are Many games that have been developed in Unity, some of them quite good.

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

Literally dropped their only game title. They ARE stupid. They already do put analytics and tracking info in games, they already do make money off of that data either directly or indirectly.

All game engines have analytic and telemetry tools m8


You are just going full tinfoil hat aren't you.

[Crashed]

Spawn of Totoro původně napsal:

Crashed původně napsal:

At the very least, InstallCore is a PUP because it was injected into program installers that asked if you wanted to install unrelated software, for which it defaulted to enabled. Thus, if you are the one who just clicks, Next, Agree, Next, Next, Next you'll get a surprise.

It's unlikely this would be added to Steam games because their first time install is almost always headless, with only a couple exceptions for third-party launchers and the MSVC 2005 redists which don't support silent install, only automatic with a Windows Installer GUI.

As is most software. I recall Adobe automatically checking the box on their site to download and install Norton or McAfee, yet it wasn't detected as a PUP or classified as malware, nor was Adobe labeled a malware developer.

And what about Ubisoft Connect an Electronic Arts games on Steam? You are forced to download their clients to run the game as well, despite user's objections.

But none of them downloaded malware is really the only difference.

This is probably a bad comparison since Ubisoft Connect is a required component but you don't need McAfee to run Acrobat.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

Spawn of Totoro původně napsal:

..snip..

As is most software. I recall Adobe automatically checking the box on their site to download and install Norton or McAfee, yet it wasn't detected as a PUP or classified as malware, nor was Adobe labeled a malware developer.

And what about Ubisoft Connect an Electronic Arts games on Steam? You are forced to download their clients to run the game as well, despite user's objections.

But none of them downloaded malware is really the only difference.

Adobe is so bad that Flash is gone aside from Scaleform and whatever the hell they renamed it as to attempt to sidestep that it's full of security holes. On top of that, they're corporate scum. Their products get more expensive and worse every year; and now you can't even own the license to the products. BMW caught wind of that licensing model for their fscking seat heaters, now, but I digress.

Ubisoft? Really? You mean the idiots who had a breach and leaked my password hash that then got tried on every account I own, two of which happened to have the same password (learned my lesson big time that day), same hash, and no salt added? That Ubisoft? The last EA product I purchased was SimCity and it was a giant let down. The last Ubisoft game was free because it's trash and it got two of my accounts sold to Mexicans. Good to know Ubisoft, Netflix, and Spotify all use the same password hashing algorithm *with no salt added*, right? They only have your credit card information, address, home phone number...

But back on (removed) topic, automatic updates aren't secure. Allow us to selectively disable updates, Valve. To the rest of the community, learn how to communicate and not just flame the (removed) out of someone and get so far off topic that you have to resort to sexual harassment? Maybe?

First, may want to correct who you are quoting.

Second: None of what you said actually has anything to do with what I stated. If anything, it actually proves my point as, despite those issues, they are not seen a malware.

If you want to stop updates in general, then I suggest no using a Unity as the reason why as it is a very poor example.

Your last statement really kills any credibility as well, imho. So I wish you luck.

Crashed původně napsal:

This is probably a bad comparison since Ubisoft Connect is a required component but you don't need McAfee to run Acrobat.

You don't need Ubisoft Connect to play the game either. They just forced it on users to get them into their own store.

[Tito Shivan]

Phoenix původně napsal:

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

There's no way of proving *either way*.

That means your statement is invalid, because you're asserting something you can't show to be accurate, let alone rational or logical.

one doesnt sell the Bear's fur before hunting it.

[ุ]

Jimmio92 původně napsal:

Satoru původně napsal:

Repeat after me

UNITY IS NOT MALWARE

They just partnered with ironSource. It's not malware *yet*. I simply want Valve to allow me to not update a title if I so choose because Unity titles WILL BE malware.

Repeat after me: Contribute to the conversation or leave.

Repeat after me, whataboutisms and hyperbole are logical fallacies.

[DC-GS]

Tito Shivan původně napsal:

one doesnt sell the Bear's fur before hunting it.

Isnt it what game preorders are?
There are enough publishers doing it successfully (as in people preordering stuff).