Block Game Publishers that Harvest your data through revised Launcher Terms of Service

[BoyledOats]

Hi, I have recently had to 'Agree' the revised terms of use by different games companies/publishers that are pushing new these revised terms of service/use via the Steam launcher for their game. There is no opt-out and when you read the fine print it turns out they are harvesting all your gameplay data and metrics, like hours of use, games played, even some personal info. I always thought this was protected by EUDP law but it turns out they can revise it whatever way they want and you are left with an 'Agree' or dont play the game, even on games you have had for 5-6 years. Civilizations 6 is a good example.

Now when i buy a game I check internet threads to see if these publishers are doing the same and if they are I wont buy the game out of principle. A good example is Crusader Kinds 3. It would be helpful if we could be told prior to purchasing these games if we have an opt-out on the terms of service/use when they are harvesting our personal data. Is this something Steam can implement? All you would have to do is check the corresponding launchers for these games!

Before some of you start saying 'why do you care', I care because they are completely flaunting EUDP regulations and if this continues they will do what they want in 10-15 years time. Its the principle of the matter. We have to draw a line somewhere. For me, that means not buying from these game companies, but would like the ability to know this from the game page, rather than having to google if they are abusing data protection laws with these revised 'terms of service'.

[Start_Running]

game devs have always harvested such telemetry. Ity helps them plan out patches. TThey can see where most people are struggling, what features are they not using. WHat features are they using. Where do they get soft locked...

Though interestingly you do have an opt out option. YUou uninstall the game and delete it from your account. That's your opt out.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Though interestingly you do have an opt out option. YUou uninstall the game and delete it from your account. That's your opt out.

This part shouldn't be necessary, it should only disable whatever absolutely relies on that.

Workaround for OP would be to listen to the traffic and block domains accordingly if they were unhappy with that, but it may affect multiplayer connectivity.

[William Shakesman]

There are entire Steam groups devoted to providing telemetry blocking settings because this is so widespread.

Unfortunately, collecting and selling data like this is too lucrative and too widespread. Valve typically does not take the side of the customers on issues that would benefit them at the cost of making money either. A more useful long term stance would be to treat this relationship as adversarial and enforce zero trust. These companies are not entitled to the data they take, but only you can stop them.

It would be nice if Valve stepped in but past experience suggests it is very unlikely they will.

[RiO]

Originally posted by William Shakesman:

There are entire Steam groups devoted to providing telemetry blocking settings because this is so widespread.

Unfortunately, collecting and selling data like this is too lucrative and too widespread. Valve typically does not take the side of the customers on issues that would benefit them at the cost of making money either. A more useful long term stance would be to treat this relationship as adversarial and enforce zero trust. These companies are not entitled to the data they take, but only you can stop them.

It would be nice if Valve stepped in but past experience suggests it is very unlikely they will.

True. This is one of those occurrences where you have to take measures into your own hands and meticulously firewall yourself against unwarranted data exchange; and double down by reporting these publishers to the authorities, if you have good reasons to consider such practices would be illegal under, e.g. the EU's GDPR should you be a citizen within the EU territories.

Big tech is already up on the chopping block to varying degrees in multiple major legal jurisdictions, including the EU, US, Japan, and iirc South-Korea. Big gaming is probably going to be next in line if they keep it up. E.g. their EULA and privacy policy practices wrt data harvesting are pretty much in line with what also landed Facebook/Meta billions worth of fines in the past as well.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Though interestingly you do have an opt out option. YUou uninstall the game and delete it from your account. That's your opt out.

If you're in the EU, many member states confer a legal right to consumers allowing them to terminate a contract of indeterminate period where the terms are unilaterally changed by the other party. In both cases you lose access to the game, but in case of choosing to formally terminate the contract it will afaik also mean you're owed a refund by the trader.

Also - if you're in the EU it's highly debatable whether any changes to the terms of service you must accept to be able to continue to use a bought product, are able to effectively signal legal consent of (changes to) data collection practices to begin with.

The GDPR requires consent to be explicit, informed, and freely given - where the latter means there may be no negative consequences for choosing not to consent. Naturally, as choosing not to consent bars you from continuing to use your 60~80 EUR purchase, that's a negative consequence - so consent can't be considered to be given freely that way.

This leaves two other applicable legal grounds for processing that might apply; one being necessity to perform the contract and the other being legitimate interest.

The former, however, cannot apply - because necessity has to be interpreted strictly - i.e. it must be absolutely impossible to perform the contract without. Which is provably not the case, as these games have been working fine beforehand.

The latter might apply, though requires a fairness test that weighs the interests of the company against the interests of the consumer. Given the non-critical nature of this data, it is very likely that authorities would have that companies should consider the consumer's interests as prevailing, and at the least they should include opt-out facilities.

Not that either really applies though, because the data collection practices are not being provided in an informational capacity - but are provided as part of revised terms that require your acceptance - i.e. your consent. So the form is already incorrect, legally.

Moreover, any concerns regarding collection of such data need to be called out separately from general terms and conditions as well. So the form is incorrect wrt that as well.

[William Shakesman]

Frankly I am fine with literally ANY paradigm at this point that is not just "morality is determined entirely by contracts, whatever you can trick, cajole, harass, or threaten someone to write on a peace of paper sums up the total of morality" so as far as I am concerned I hope the EU continues to take these people's money for their violations.

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by William Shakesman:

Unfortunately, collecting and selling data like this is too lucrative and too widespread. Valve typically does not take the side of the customers on issues that would benefit them at the cost of making money either.

Business gonna business. Always remember Steam is not your girlfriend.

If Steam took the side of customers in every issue they'd basically become more niche than GOG. And then everybody would complain about games not being on Steam. At the end of the day stores want to sell products. The more the better.

This is also a subject with very little user friction (outside of people who live and breath gaming and spend the whole day in forums). People have been used to it and all that data harvesting has generally no meaningful immediate impact for them. So it's a 'non issue' to them.

[William Shakesman]

Originally posted by Tito Shivan:

Originally posted by William Shakesman:

Unfortunately, collecting and selling data like this is too lucrative and too widespread. Valve typically does not take the side of the customers on issues that would benefit them at the cost of making money either.

Business gonna business. Always remember Steam is not your girlfriend.

If Steam took the side of customers in every issue they'd basically become more niche than GOG. And then everybody would complain about games not being on Steam. At the end of the day stores want to sell products. The more the better.

This is also a subject with very little user friction (outside of people who live and breath gaming and spend the whole day in forums). People have been used to it and all that data harvesting has generally no meaningful immediate impact for them. So it's a 'non issue' to them.

That is why I have nothing but respect for the people who live and breathe this sort of thing to make that friction happen. Going along with no friction issues is why Americans do not know what orange juice tastes like as their shelves are full of industrial byproduct with neon orange food coloring.

It also explains why devs have focused on ways of marginalizing that audience as of late with an aim to more pliable outsiders.

[Crazy Tiger]

EUDP? What has the Energy Technology Development and Demonstration Program to do with this?

[BoyledOats]

When I wrote to 2K games looking for an opt-out, they directect me to Steam saying they are responsible for the launcher. Then steam tried to direct me to 2k games when i got in contact with them. When I told them 2k had sent me here they sent me a physical mailing address in San Francisco for Valve and closed the ticket. They are equally as guilty in this. I agree with...

"Going along with no friction issues is why Americans do not know what orange juice tastes like as their shelves are full of industrial byproduct with neon orange food coloring."

....this is where we are all headed because of these greedy ***. Steam can preach that they are in it for the consumer all they want, they are just the same as EA and 2K and all those other greedy who don't know where the line is! ..they have knowingly stepped over it. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for alternative platforms and gaming sites from now on. Thanks Steam

[Boblin the Goblin]

If the game has a separate EULA, there is a yellow disclosure stating so. It even links the EULA for anyone to read before purchasing.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Boblin the Goblin:

If the game has a separate EULA, there is a yellow disclosure stating so. It even links the EULA for anyone to read before purchasing.

The main topic is the terms of service and the EULA being changed after purchase has already happened, to sneak in a launcher and/or gear up on more telemetry; behavioral analysis; etc. holding your existing purchase to ransom until you declare you accept the revised t&c.

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

EUDP? What has the Energy Technology Development and Demonstration Program to do with this?

"EUDP regulations" - applying a bit of correction to poor spacing: "EU DP regulations," aka EU Data Protection regulations. (Which includes but is not limited to the GDPR.)

[LoveAndPeace]

Problem is they tend too harvest more than just the normal they can end up digging deep into people lives.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by LoveAndPeace:

Problem is they tend too harvest more than just the normal they can end up digging deep into people lives.

You're thinking of fb and Google.
Games typically only collect necessary data or information that may help like cpu, gpu, ram, storage for statistics.

[LoveAndPeace]

yeah and the color you like, then what cookies you have what search terms you used, then a week later you go in game and someone suggests a champion in game that looks exactly like your prized waifu.... yeah i have seen a lot more than you think.

and a list of hardware can also be a list of flaws to be used as attack vectors.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by LoveAndPeace:

yeah and the color you like, then what cookies you have what search terms you used, then a week later you go in game and someone suggests a champion in game that looks exactly like your prized waifu.... yeah i have seen a lot more than you think.

Except none of that.