Better Vetting of Moderators

[Jamie]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3351050932

Was told to contact Halo Support since it was applied by a Halo Moderator that its out of Steam Mods hands. I contact Halo they say the exact same thing. There is no "hate" anything. I responded to someones post simply asking for a faith based banner and just by asking "can we get a Christian or Jesus Christ banner" that got me permanently banned from the Halo:MCC Community HUB. I cant even upload screenshots of my game plays anymore. cant upload mods to workshop. nothing. I've been a member of Steam since 2009 and I have never been permanently banned from anything.

Whether you agree or disagree, hate it or not, thats literally discrimination based on religion and then tell you to please view their Rules and Guidelines. When you ask for why you were banned and for what reason this is their response...from BOTH Steam & 343/Halo/Xbox/Microsoft. They wont tell you, instead you are caught in this accountability ping pong battle. Its wrong, its unprofessional and it immature.

I dont know whos doing the hiring around here at Valve/Steam but this is literally against the law. I'm not loud enough or rich enough to do anything about it but I really think this is a big BIG PROBLEM ever since 2021 a wave of power abusive Moderators have slithered their way in and bait people in threads and then ban them simply for saying something they dont like and then they use some made up rules that arent even in the Steam Guidelines to justify their actions "this produces non constructive replies..etc..."

In conclusion, I just want to leave this here for reference:
a.) https://www.commerce.gov/cr/reports-and-resources/discrimination-quick-facts/religious-discrimination
b.) https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/religious-freedom
c.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di Mensis:

Well I am not so sure, because to me all that useless spam on an announcement whenever a game has an event for x thing asking "well what about Y event?!?" is just that - useless spam

When it's spam competent moderation tends to act.
I doubt steam mods would get involved in any one side of what users know is blatant award farming for "pro" or "anti" or any other intentional stance for award farming.

Messaggio originale di Mensis:

and I doubt most people writing those things actually cares about having Y event, they just want to be contrarian or spam

Even people that have been in the categories of the events did not want them and were banned for such a stance, in that specific hub.

Messaggio originale di Mensis:

The Halo hub seems to be one of the only hubs that actually removes those kinds of comments, others just leave them up and as a result on most hubs any announcement thread is just filled with nonsense spam.

Dev/Dev-mod hubs tend to act as well, basically any game hub with their own moderation tends to remove obvious award farming or irrelevant material. Typically it's indie devs.

Messaggio originale di Mensis:

Well if you say so - and if you're trying to say I am not on the boards in "good faith" feel free to report me if you think I'm trolling.

As most know; contrarianism or bad faith does not equate to a violation.
Nor would bad faith always be someone trolling as some may be doing so due to an extreme personal bias on a subject or perception of anothers "side" not being identical. The individuals that do troll in bad faith, tend to be banned frequently, are well-known negatively to the forums by basically everyone but those on their friends list (or previously on such) and a few are permanently banned for such behavior.

So it comes down to intention for violations, thus people in good faith tend to not make reports unless something appears to actually violates the rules; thus mere disagreements or observation of contrarian or bad faith takes does not equate to reports nor justifes reports.

Messaggio originale di Mensis:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

I have advised people many times not to use the ARK / Halo / DBD (and some other) hubs unless specifically only discussing the game/gameplay itself. Not warned nor banned from them, just very aware of how they operate their hubs over the course of years between observation and complaints.
The hubs could be operated by any "side" and if it was overly well known of any perma-ban behavior I would advise people to avoid it in the first place, but it's hard to warn people when it already happened.

Fair enough then.

Keep in mind other of the unnamed hubs are of actually various sides, and the domina one was basically the polar opposite of halo in terms of beliefs, but was also blatantly abusing the perma ban function. They just paired it with directed attacks on users publicly and in other violation worthy manners.

Messaggio originale di fluxtorrent:

Your own screenshot shows it was a developer/publisher appointed moderator. Your issue is with microsoft regardless of what they want you to believe

Hence, Valve won't "Vet" hub mods for other companies, that's strictly up to the Dev/Publisher.

[Mensis]

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Messaggio originale di Mensis:

Well I am not so sure, because to me all that useless spam on an announcement whenever a game has an event for x thing asking "well what about Y event?!?" is just that - useless spam

When it's spam competent moderation tends to act.
I doubt steam mods would get involved in any one side of what users know is blatant award farming for "pro" or "anti" or any other intentional stance for award farming.

That is certainly true - I just think that a lot of sections of Steam don't have that "competent moderation" to begin with. Even the Valve moderation itself has its own share of incompetence otherwise we wouldn't have certain outstanding problems like the lack of punishment for ban evaders and alt abuse. But that's for a different topic.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Even people that have been in the categories of the events did not want them and were banned for such a stance, in that specific hub.

Well I would agree that those people's opinions are equally as valid but there are also people who belong to those "categories" who don't mind or support such things. In the end it is down to the developers of the game.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Dev/Dev-mod hubs tend to act as well, basically any game hub with their own moderation tends to remove obvious award farming or irrelevant material. Typically it's indie devs.

I guess I just don't own many games that have good dev-run moderation, and I don't usually pay enough attention to notice if it's moderation by the devs or if they use Valve's moderation. But I'll take your word for it.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

As most know; contrarianism or bad faith does not equate to a violation.
Nor would bad faith always be someone trolling as some may be doing so due to an extreme personal bias on a subject or perception of anothers "side" not being identical. The individuals that do troll in bad faith, tend to be banned frequently, are well-known negatively to the forums by basically everyone but those on their friends list (or previously on such) and a few are permanently banned for such behavior.

So it comes down to intention for violations, thus people in good faith tend to not make reports unless something appears to actually violates the rules; thus mere disagreements or observation of contrarian or bad faith takes does not equate to reports nor justifes reports.

If you say so. People are free to make their own observations about me and are always welcome to take a look at my post history as well. Though as I said I generally try to follow the rules and I don't come to the forums to stir up trouble but again, others can decide if they see me that way or not.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Keep in mind other of the unnamed hubs are of actually various sides, and the domina one was basically the polar opposite of halo in terms of beliefs, but was also blatantly abusing the perma ban function. They just paired it with directed attacks on users publicly and in other violation worthy manners.

Well I'm not familiar with the story of the Domina hub so again I'll take your word for it.

[William Shakesman]

Hub mods are explicitly exempt from the Steam community rules, so no rules against discrimination apply to them, even explicitly discriminatory cases like this.

[Underprivileged White Male]

Messaggio originale di Wolf Knight:

steam outsources their forum mods to 3rd party company. telling steam to vet their mods is pointless since they have none to vet.

game developers select who they want to be a mod for their game forum. the game developers do not visit this forum for idea's or suggestions. if you have an issue with how a game forum is moderated, contact that games developer

keep in mind that this is a privately owned forum, the owners have the right to decide what is and what is not allowed.

The problem is when you do that they just send to back to steam and tell you to open a ticket.

[76561199559798421]

you might want to just never buy another halo game again i guess, who needs it really, I haven't played halo since the original Xbox.

you can combat discrimination by applying your own form of ignoring the product completely.

[ButtermanAFB1]

Messaggio originale di Jamie:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3351050932

Was told to contact Halo Support since it was applied by a Halo Moderator that its out of Steam Mods hands. I contact Halo they say the exact same thing. There is no "hate" anything. I responded to someones post simply asking for a faith based banner and just by asking "can we get a Christian or Jesus Christ banner" that got me permanently banned from the Halo:MCC Community HUB. I cant even upload screenshots of my game plays anymore. cant upload mods to workshop. nothing. I've been a member of Steam since 2009 and I have never been permanently banned from anything.

Whether you agree or disagree, hate it or not, thats literally discrimination based on religion and then tell you to please view their Rules and Guidelines. When you ask for why you were banned and for what reason this is their response...from BOTH Steam & 343/Halo/Xbox/Microsoft. They wont tell you, instead you are caught in this accountability ping pong battle. Its wrong, its unprofessional and it immature.

I dont know whos doing the hiring around here at Valve/Steam but this is literally against the law. I'm not loud enough or rich enough to do anything about it but I really think this is a big BIG PROBLEM ever since 2021 a wave of power abusive Moderators have slithered their way in and bait people in threads and then ban them simply for saying something they dont like and then they use some made up rules that arent even in the Steam Guidelines to justify their actions "this produces non constructive replies..etc..."

In conclusion, I just want to leave this here for reference:
a.) https://www.commerce.gov/cr/reports-and-resources/discrimination-quick-facts/religious-discrimination
b.) https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/religious-freedom
c.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

I have also been perma banned for making a small comment of that there is still no modded custom browser for a long while now. its just so frustrating.

[ButtermanAFB1]

Messaggio originale di Anoi Hidalgo:

gamehub mods are alot of times discord or reddit mods. So they carry over their same ♥♥♥♥♥♥ demeanor over to Steam forums.
On another note since they arent valve employees you are free to report them for steam guidline violations as well

so basically there is just no way for guys like me to get this fixed?

cowa-bummer

[William Shakesman]

Messaggio originale di ButtermanAFB1:

Messaggio originale di Anoi Hidalgo:

gamehub mods are alot of times discord or reddit mods. So they carry over their same ♥♥♥♥♥♥ demeanor over to Steam forums.
On another note since they arent valve employees you are free to report them for steam guidline violations as well

so basically there is just no way for guys like me to get this fixed?

cowa-bummer

Explicitly no. The Steam guidelines do not even apply to the game hub mods. They can ban you because potato and Valve will not intervene.

It makes sense why but it sucks for the guys who have to suffer

[eram]

Messaggio originale di ButtermanAFB1:

Messaggio originale di Jamie:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3351050932

Was told to contact Halo Support since it was applied by a Halo Moderator that its out of Steam Mods hands. I contact Halo they say the exact same thing. There is no "hate" anything. I responded to someones post simply asking for a faith based banner and just by asking "can we get a Christian or Jesus Christ banner" that got me permanently banned from the Halo:MCC Community HUB. I cant even upload screenshots of my game plays anymore. cant upload mods to workshop. nothing. I've been a member of Steam since 2009 and I have never been permanently banned from anything.

Whether you agree or disagree, hate it or not, thats literally discrimination based on religion and then tell you to please view their Rules and Guidelines. When you ask for why you were banned and for what reason this is their response...from BOTH Steam & 343/Halo/Xbox/Microsoft. They wont tell you, instead you are caught in this accountability ping pong battle. Its wrong, its unprofessional and it immature.

I dont know whos doing the hiring around here at Valve/Steam but this is literally against the law. I'm not loud enough or rich enough to do anything about it but I really think this is a big BIG PROBLEM ever since 2021 a wave of power abusive Moderators have slithered their way in and bait people in threads and then ban them simply for saying something they dont like and then they use some made up rules that arent even in the Steam Guidelines to justify their actions "this produces non constructive replies..etc..."

In conclusion, I just want to leave this here for reference:
a.) https://www.commerce.gov/cr/reports-and-resources/discrimination-quick-facts/religious-discrimination
b.) https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/religious-freedom
c.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

I have also been perma banned for making a small comment of that there is still no modded custom browser for a long while now. its just so frustrating.

i doubt you were banned for that, feel free to post the full post and reason.

[ButtermanAFB1]

Messaggio originale di eram:

Messaggio originale di ButtermanAFB1:

I have also been perma banned for making a small comment of that there is still no modded custom browser for a long while now. its just so frustrating.

i doubt you were banned for that, feel free to post the full post and reason.

it was an announcement for the disability banner and I just asked for a modded custom browser already instead of another useless brownie points banner since halo custom edition had one years ago

then I get a perma ban notice with the Reason: "Show basic courtesy and respect"

If I could get you the exact word for word I would but I cant find it

[eram]

Messaggio originale di ButtermanAFB1:

Messaggio originale di eram:

i doubt you were banned for that, feel free to post the full post and reason.

it was an announcement for the disability banner and I just asked for a modded custom browser already instead of another useless brownie points banner since halo custom edition had one years ago

then I get a perma ban notice with the Reason: "Show basic courtesy and respect"

If I could get you the exact word for word I would but I cant find it

does that link work?
https://steamcommunity.com/id/76561198330899604/moderatormessages

[ButtermanAFB1]

Messaggio originale di eram:

Messaggio originale di ButtermanAFB1:

it was an announcement for the disability banner and I just asked for a modded custom browser already instead of another useless brownie points banner since halo custom edition had one years ago

then I get a perma ban notice with the Reason: "Show basic courtesy and respect"

If I could get you the exact word for word I would but I cant find it

does that link work?
https://steamcommunity.com/id/76561198330899604/moderatormessages

nope, dead link

[William Shakesman]

Messaggio originale di eram:

Messaggio originale di ButtermanAFB1:

I have also been perma banned for making a small comment of that there is still no modded custom browser for a long while now. its just so frustrating.

i doubt you were banned for that, feel free to post the full post and reason.

If you doubt that, you do not have much experience with the moderation decisions made by the Master Chief Collection community moderators. They absolutely do ban for that sort of thing regularly. I think I have seen probably a dozen laughable ban messages from them from various people over the last couple years.

Besides, if he shows you a ban message that is perfectly on the level and backs up his statement, what will you do? Would you apologize for doubting him? Would you lift his ban or advocate for it to be lifted? Why precisely are you asking?

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di eram:

Messaggio originale di ButtermanAFB1:

I have also been perma banned for making a small comment of that there is still no modded custom browser for a long while now. its just so frustrating.

i doubt you were banned for that, feel free to post the full post and reason.

It's very well known to a lot of people that the halo section will perma ban users for reasons exactly like that, among a few social-politically charged comments for so much as not back-patting announcements.

That hub if someone says they were banned for something which basically no other Dev bans people for, a gigantic majority of the time that's most likely what they were actually hit for. Loads of us know in the general sections people don't tend to be honest from game hub bans, however, I can assure you the halo hub does frequently ban people for things no one in their right mind would ban people for.

People are free to attempt making a non-back-patting comment on a recently made announcement to test for themselves, if they'd like to take the risk.