communitys should be allowed to vote a mod off of a forum

[REALiNSaNgAMingGODPrODIgY]

the second a mod acts like a hr agent i feel like the forums lose its legit purpose aka banning threads about the game and what they dislike or changes they want is low key sad.

like dividing the forums to be only "positive" and not have anything that makes them look bad is funny to me

[Mad Scientist]

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

I would say that since two threads exist right now about abusive moderators, neither of which has anything to do with me, and neither of which was started by my should be a CLUE that the complaints about widespread moderator abuse have merit.

Amusingly, historically speaking the 1st of those threads is by an individual known even by Steam Support where Support even sent them a warning about their behavior (such as trolling on numerous accounts, ban evading with the accounts, making & spreading misinformation that other troublemakers cite such false information without knowing anything about it) and that they wont unban any associated behavior.

The 2nd thread was yet-another individual correctly moderated for poor behavior in game hubs.

Be careful about confirmation bias especially when entirely unaware of the history behind the complaints, as people justifiably moderated tend to lie and deceive other users to join their anti-moderation crowd.

Let me be clear with an example of most of these complaints; it's like someone complaining about being arrested & "police brutality" when being punched in the face by an officer as retaliation for the individual punching the officer in the stomach, quite often troublemakers will leave out having done something wrong to get the punishment or will be so biased that they don't think doing wrong is doing wrong despite the community knowing they did wrong.

[snugginz]

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

I would say that since two threads exist right now about abusive moderators, neither of which has anything to do with me, and neither of which was started by my should be a CLUE that the complaints about widespread moderator abuse have merit.

Amusingly, historically speaking the 1st of those threads is by an individual known even by Steam Support where Support even sent them a warning about their behavior (such as trolling on numerous accounts, ban evading with the accounts, making & spreading misinformation that other troublemakers cite such false information without knowing anything about it) and that they wont unban any associated behavior.

The 2nd thread was yet-another individual correctly moderated for poor behavior in game hubs.

Be careful about confirmation bias especially when entirely unaware of the history behind the complaints, as people justifiably moderated tend to lie and deceive other users to join their anti-moderation crowd.

Let me be clear with an example of most of these complaints; it's like someone complaining about being arrested & "police brutality" when being punched in the face by an officer as retaliation for the individual punching the officer in the stomach, quite often troublemakers will leave out having done something wrong to get the punishment or will be so biased that they don't think doing wrong is doing wrong despite the community knowing they did wrong.

Interesting how you would have such opinions about how the Steam moderator community feels about the OP. Your language sounds pretty damning. Are you certain of the statements you make against the OP? How do you know with moderators of unlimited power who are themselves beyond punishment, who CAN LIE and abuse all day long, that this person is the problem.

As for using multiple accounts, that sounds like Steam moderator behavior.
And what is a 'troublemaker' precisely except someone bad for the developer/mods lies, and bad for the company profits?

And the second thread as well? Interesting. How you are consistently on the moderator/developer's side. And you are so certain the posters of these threads are just 'misinformation' spreaders.

Did you ever consider that the abusive unrestricted moderators in these cases are just egotistical, narcissistic, and corrupt? Because that's what happens with people when given unlimited power, they become corrupt.

[Mad Scientist]

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Are you certain of the statements you make against the OP?

Well my statement of the OP was observing an unusual amount of thread creations primarily in Off-Topic, so the intention is questionable as certain subjects are prone to receiving specific awards, and some have a tendency to try creating threads frequently in hopes of receiving awards. Sometimes the threads-subject and section used is done when not receiving awards in hopes of getting more.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

How do you know with moderators of unlimited power who are themselves beyond punishment, who CAN LIE and abuse all day long, that this person is the problem.

First, they have very, very limited power.
Secondly, problem users need to be shown the door rather than be entertained for years especially when continuing the same misinformation for years. Users that are a problem should be thankful they don't get game bans to go with the forum bans, something Devs should consider doing when someone is an overall detrimental presence to numerous hubs civility.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

As for using multiple accounts, that sounds like Steam moderator behavior.

They literally warned an individual about it that community members are aware of and many users here have the saved quotes admitting of using multiple account & intent to troll. Ever wonder why many of the troublemakers use Limited Accounts?

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And what is a 'troublemaker' precisely except someone bad for the developer/mods lies, and bad for the company profits?

Someone who has no good intentions and is primarily an uncivil argumentative individual that spreads misinformation & picks fights endlessly. That would be the gist of defining a troublemaker.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And the second thread as well? Interesting. How you are consistently on the moderator/developer's side. And you are so certain the posters of these threads are just 'misinformation' spreaders.

Because most of us here have the full context & history known, whereas those that are an issue just look for confirmation bias without knowing the context or history of events.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Did you ever consider that the abusive unrestricted moderators in these cases are just egotistical, narcissistic, and corrupt? Because that's what happens with people when given unlimited power, they become corrupt.

If you want to see anything of the sort, post that in the Halo hub especially on a recent announcement. Because other than HALO & ARK hubs, most mods/devs just remove people that are troublemakers.

[snugginz]

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Are you certain of the statements you make against the OP?

Well my statement of the OP was observing an unusual amount of thread creations primarily in Off-Topic, so the intention is questionable as certain subjects are prone to receiving specific awards, and some have a tendency to try creating threads frequently in hopes of receiving awards. Sometimes the threads-subject and section used is done when not receiving awards in hopes of getting more.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

How do you know with moderators of unlimited power who are themselves beyond punishment, who CAN LIE and abuse all day long, that this person is the problem.

First, they have very, very limited power.
Secondly, problem users need to be shown the door rather than be entertained for years especially when continuing the same misinformation for years. Users that are a problem should be thankful they don't get game bans to go with the forum bans, something Devs should consider doing when someone is an overall detrimental presence to numerous hubs civility.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

As for using multiple accounts, that sounds like Steam moderator behavior.

They literally warned an individual about it that community members are aware of and many users here have the saved quotes admitting of using multiple account & intent to troll. Ever wonder why many of the troublemakers use Limited Accounts?

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And what is a 'troublemaker' precisely except someone bad for the developer/mods lies, and bad for the company profits?

Someone who has no good intentions and is primarily an uncivil argumentative individual that spreads misinformation & picks fights endlessly. That would be the gist of defining a troublemaker.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And the second thread as well? Interesting. How you are consistently on the moderator/developer's side. And you are so certain the posters of these threads are just 'misinformation' spreaders.

Because most of us here have the full context & history known, whereas those that are an issue just look for confirmation bias without knowing the context or history of events.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Did you ever consider that the abusive unrestricted moderators in these cases are just egotistical, narcissistic, and corrupt? Because that's what happens with people when given unlimited power, they become corrupt.

If you want to see anything of the sort, post that in the Halo hub especially on a recent announcement. Because other than HALO & ARK hubs, most mods/devs just remove people that are troublemakers.

RIGHT.
And all these observations you are making are as a NON MODERATOR. Correct?

And why do you care what they say in off topic and if it receives awards if it's not breaking the rules?

'Very very limited power' sorry that's just ridiculous. They can do all the abuses I just listed and so many more, and DELETE evidence of their abuses. In the context of a forum, that's unlimited power and it's absolutely silly to argue otherwise.

And what is 'misinformation' to you? Whatever you disagree with or find sub-optimal for the corporate profits? If something you think isn't true say you disagree and let it go.

And why should forums always be about echo chamber fanboy-ism? What's wrong with a little abrasion of disagreement if it is done in a civilized manner without personally attacking someone?

Truth can never be found among disagreement without some abrasion.

I see no reason for moderator stalking, personally attacking, silencing, or banning from anything you have said. Literally everything you stated is just normal communication and WRONG reasons to ban somebody.

[Tito Shivan]

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Developers should NOT be allowed to moderate their own forums.

Developers should be able to. They can do it on Steam or they can do it elsewhere.
Threatening them to abide or 'go elsewhere' won't change their behavior.

[snugginz]

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Developers should NOT be allowed to moderate their own forums.

Developers should be able to. They can do it on Steam or they can do it elsewhere.
Threatening them to abide or 'go elsewhere' won't change their behavior.

No need to change their corrupt behavior. Simply take the job away from them.
And the whole point is NO developers clearly cannot be trusted to moderate their own forums, especially when they are given a guise of a Steam UI which allows them to pretend that they are not the developers abusing people.

[Mad Scientist]

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

RIGHT.
And all these observations you are making are as a NON MODERATOR. Correct?

You've asked several people in a few threads if they're a moderator upon merely disagreeing. Do note Valve moderators like all non-standard user groups have a different font color, and Valve Moderation clearly says "VALVE" next to any mods name when they post anywhere.

You can see by my name being the same color as other users, and lacking any additional marker that I am in a user group, more specifically customer privileges. Not sure why anyone being a moderator or not has anything to do on people being right or wrong on these subjects.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And why do you care what they say in off topic and if it receives awards if it's not breaking the rules?

I just recognize when people flood OT with threads, dont get awards, and make threads elsewhere which appears as trying to merely get awards, not so much as have a serious discussion so it brings intent into question, for obvious reasons.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

'Very very limited power' sorry that's just ridiculous. They can do all the abuses I just listed and so many more, and DELETE evidence of their abuses. In the context of a forum, that's unlimited power and it's absolutely silly to argue otherwise.

They can't "delete evidence" because Valve can see everything, users in the wrong are often under a false assumption that it can't be seen who has done what to what or that there's no logs because they can't *see* something they don't have privileges for. Almost all forums have a way of verifying action, it's just that Valve isn't going to get involved in a problem users disputes other than to moderate them for misbehaving especially when they continue to do so.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And what is 'misinformation' to you? Whatever you disagree with or find sub-optimal for the corporate profits? If something you think isn't true say you disagree and let it go.

Leave the bias at the door. There are those of us that know the history of specific individuals, events etc - and those that aren't. So if for example, a limited account is saying things that are outright false and has a habit of creating & spreading false information, that is objectively an individual doing that. When misinformation is cited by troublemakers that are merely confirming their bias it incites troublemakers to misbehave by creating & making a bigger deal out of something that doesn't exist at all in full context, or that they insist is a bigger issue when citing literal fabrications because some have stated intent to troll the forums.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And why should forums always be about echo chamber fanboy-ism? What's wrong with a little abrasion of disagreement if it is done in a civilized manner without personally attacking someone?

Given we can see post history, it's easy to tell when someone is trouble, is not civil, and has been an issue for many hubs. This circles back to some people will never admit they're wrong when an entire community outside of troublemakers tells them their behavior is unacceptable for the hub(s) in question.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Truth can never be found among disagreement without some abrasion.

Citing literal misinformation however, is not "Truth", that is an example of "ones own truth" ie looking for things to confirm bias, with no regard for literal truth as long as it merely affirms ones belief rather than the facts of the situation

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

I see no reason for moderator stalking, personally attacking, silencing, or banning from anything you have said. Literally everything you stated is just normal communication and WRONG reasons to ban somebody.

Well you can't have it both ways where mods are "stalking" yet actually take the time to look into a users post history when the user is reported by other members in the hub, see it lines up with their poor behavior in the current hub, and like other hubs bans them from the game hub for clearly having ill-intent or starting uncivil arguments everywhere they go.

If you're not liking that Devs can take action on users, or that Dev-appointed mods can show troublemakers the door, then I wouldn't recommend posting in any indie game hub, and would recommend caution overall because the service existing does not mean people can act poorly & get away with it. Private property, rules are listed, game hubs can also make & list their own rules.

If someone is at it for years & years with an ever-increasing moderation history, how do you think that's going to look to everyone that's not a troublemaker?

[BJWyler]

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Aachen님이 먼저 게시:

What’s the end date?

Not soon enough that's for sure. But it's clear societies all across western civilization are getting pretty fed up with the paths they've been driven down with the unlimited powers of big tech. And anybody who speaks against Free Speech today will be seen as on the wrong side of history. As everyone who has been against Free Speech for all of history, HAS BEEN on the wrong side of history.

Funny thing about Free Speech is that it works both ways, and never means Freedom from Consequences.

[snugginz]

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

RIGHT.
And all these observations you are making are as a NON MODERATOR. Correct?

You've asked several people in a few threads if they're a moderator upon merely disagreeing. Do note Valve moderators like all non-standard user groups have a different font color, and Valve Moderation clearly says "VALVE" next to any mods name when they post anywhere.

You can see by my name being the same color as other users, and lacking any additional marker that I am in a user group, more specifically customer privileges. Not sure why anyone being a moderator or not has anything to do on people being right or wrong on these subjects.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And why do you care what they say in off topic and if it receives awards if it's not breaking the rules?

I just recognize when people flood OT with sections, dont get awards, and make threads elsewhere which appears as trying to merely get awards, not so much as have a serious discussion so it brings intent into question, for obvious reasons.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

'Very very limited power' sorry that's just ridiculous. They can do all the abuses I just listed and so many more, and DELETE evidence of their abuses. In the context of a forum, that's unlimited power and it's absolutely silly to argue otherwise.

They can't "delete evidence" because Valve can see everything, users in the wrong are often under a false assumption that it can't be seen who has done what to what or that there's no logs because they can't *see* something they don't have privileges for. Almost all forums have a way of verifying action, it's just that Valve isn't going to get involved in a problem users disputes other than to moderate them for misbehaving especially when they continue to do so.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And what is 'misinformation' to you? Whatever you disagree with or find sub-optimal for the corporate profits? If something you think isn't true say you disagree and let it go.

Leave the bias at the door. There are those of us that know the history of specific individuals, events etc - and those that aren't. So if for example, a limited account is saying things that are outright false and has a habit of creating & spreading false information, that is objectively an individual doing that. When misinformation is cited by troublemakers that are merely confirming their bias it incites troublemakers to misbehave by creating & making a bigger deal out of something that doesn't exist at all in full context, or that they insist is a bigger issue when citing literal fabrications because some have stated intent to troll the forums.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

And why should forums always be about echo chamber fanboy-ism? What's wrong with a little abrasion of disagreement if it is done in a civilized manner without personally attacking someone?

Given we can see post history, it's easy to tell when someone is trouble, is not civil, and has been an issue for many hubs. This circles back to some people will never admit they're wrong when an entire community outside of troublemakers tells them their behavior is unacceptable for the hub(s) in question.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Truth can never be found among disagreement without some abrasion.

Citing literal misinformation however, is not "Truth", that is an example of "ones own truth" ie looking for things to confirm bias, with no regard for literal truth as long as it merely affirms ones belief rather than the facts of the situation

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

I see no reason for moderator stalking, personally attacking, silencing, or banning from anything you have said. Literally everything you stated is just normal communication and WRONG reasons to ban somebody.

Well you can't have it both ways where mods are "stalking" yet actually take the time to look into a users post history when the user is reported by other members in the hub, see it lines up with their poor behavior in the current hub, and like other hubs bans them from the game hub for clearly having ill-intent or starting uncivil arguments everywhere they go.

If you're not liking that Devs can take action on users, or that Dev-appointed mods can show troublemakers the door, then I wouldn't recommend posting in any indie game hub, and would recommend caution overall because the service existing does not mean people can act poorly & get away with it. Private property, rules are listed, game hubs can also make & list their own rules.

If someone is at it for years & years with an ever-increasing moderation history, how do you think that's going to look to everyone that's not a troublemaker?

Well you left the last thread accusing of 'misinformation' while you were misinforming. And moderator saw that you got the last word. CLEARLY the entire thread (which I clarified SEVERAL TIMES) was about 'Steam' DEVELOPER moderators. Then you come saying that my posts are 'misinformation' because Steam moderators don't do the things I said.

Further, no color on your name means nothing about whether you are a developer moderator because they use alt accounts as already discussed in detail. And you pretend that was also not discussed, which again is bad faith.

Developer moderators delete threads to cover their tracks of abuse. Whether Steam mods can see it or not is irrelevant. They lie to the public by deleting their abuses. And Steam mods do nothing about developer mods abuses which is the whole point that you ignore AGAIN.

You talk about citing 'literal misinformation' when you have just done so.

And you try to obscure that the pattern here is a 'problem user' whom you are implying is me. Again YOU are breaking Steam rules by attacking me personally instead of my arguments, which I have stated MANY times now reflect a pattern of moderator abuses on Steam forums against many people.

So you just continue breaking Steam rules. Just like a fraud mod.

[snugginz]

BJWyler님이 먼저 게시:

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Not soon enough that's for sure. But it's clear societies all across western civilization are getting pretty fed up with the paths they've been driven down with the unlimited powers of big tech. And anybody who speaks against Free Speech today will be seen as on the wrong side of history. As everyone who has been against Free Speech for all of history, HAS BEEN on the wrong side of history.

Funny thing about Free Speech is that it works both ways, and never means Freedom from Consequences.

Implying things but saying nothing.

[William Shakesman]

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

I would say that since two threads exist right now about abusive moderators, neither of which has anything to do with me, and neither of which was started by my should be a CLUE that the complaints about widespread moderator abuse have merit.

Amusingly, historically speaking the 1st of those threads is by an individual known even by Steam Support where Support even sent them a warning about their behavior (such as trolling on numerous accounts, ban evading with the accounts, making & spreading misinformation that other troublemakers cite such false information without knowing anything about it) and that they wont unban any associated behavior.

The 2nd thread was yet-another individual correctly moderated for poor behavior in game hubs.

Be careful about confirmation bias especially when entirely unaware of the history behind the complaints, as people justifiably moderated tend to lie and deceive other users to join their anti-moderation crowd.

Let me be clear with an example of most of these complaints; it's like someone complaining about being arrested & "police brutality" when being punched in the face by an officer as retaliation for the individual punching the officer in the stomach, quite often troublemakers will leave out having done something wrong to get the punishment or will be so biased that they don't think doing wrong is doing wrong despite the community knowing they did wrong.

How do you know this if such a warning was sent by Steam support to the user? It should not be possible that you would actually know this.

[snugginz]

William Shakesman님이 먼저 게시:

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

Amusingly, historically speaking the 1st of those threads is by an individual known even by Steam Support where Support even sent them a warning about their behavior (such as trolling on numerous accounts, ban evading with the accounts, making & spreading misinformation that other troublemakers cite such false information without knowing anything about it) and that they wont unban any associated behavior.

The 2nd thread was yet-another individual correctly moderated for poor behavior in game hubs.

Be careful about confirmation bias especially when entirely unaware of the history behind the complaints, as people justifiably moderated tend to lie and deceive other users to join their anti-moderation crowd.

Let me be clear with an example of most of these complaints; it's like someone complaining about being arrested & "police brutality" when being punched in the face by an officer as retaliation for the individual punching the officer in the stomach, quite often troublemakers will leave out having done something wrong to get the punishment or will be so biased that they don't think doing wrong is doing wrong despite the community knowing they did wrong.

How do you know this if such a warning was sent by Steam support to the user? It should not be possible that you would actually know this.

EXACTLY
Then tells us he's not an insider because his name isn't colored.
And he falsely stated at the end of the last thread that was just locked, that all my posts were about Steam moderators and so everything I said was 'misinformation' when I stated clearly SEVERAL TIMES in that very thread TO HIM that I was discussing 'Steam' (in quotes as in faux) DEVELOPER moderators.

And the moderator who locked the thread let that post from him have the last word in the thread.
SUSSY

[xBCxRangers]

William Shakesman님이 먼저 게시:

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

Amusingly, historically speaking the 1st of those threads is by an individual known even by Steam Support where Support even sent them a warning about their behavior (such as trolling on numerous accounts, ban evading with the accounts, making & spreading misinformation that other troublemakers cite such false information without knowing anything about it) and that they wont unban any associated behavior.

The 2nd thread was yet-another individual correctly moderated for poor behavior in game hubs.

Be careful about confirmation bias especially when entirely unaware of the history behind the complaints, as people justifiably moderated tend to lie and deceive other users to join their anti-moderation crowd.

Let me be clear with an example of most of these complaints; it's like someone complaining about being arrested & "police brutality" when being punched in the face by an officer as retaliation for the individual punching the officer in the stomach, quite often troublemakers will leave out having done something wrong to get the punishment or will be so biased that they don't think doing wrong is doing wrong despite the community knowing they did wrong.

How do you know this if such a warning was sent by Steam support to the user? It should not be possible that you would actually know this.

Good question. I think we may have an "idea" how he may know these things. If not, misinformation and banter, for which i do not think are against our rules either.

[snugginz]

MrNewell123님이 먼저 게시:

William Shakesman님이 먼저 게시:

How do you know this if such a warning was sent by Steam support to the user? It should not be possible that you would actually know this.

Good question. I think we may have an "idea" how he may know these things. If not, misinformation and banter, for which i do not think are against our rules either.

Banter is friendly. Repeatedly attacking someone personally to forward his pro Steam Developer Moderator agenda is most decidedly NOT friendly.

Misinformation is ban-able when banning users. Fraud Mods use it all the time to shut down any disagreement that's not good for business. But when insiders do it, it's fine.

[snugginz]

Mad Scientist님이 먼저 게시:

William Shakesman님이 먼저 게시:

How do you know this if such a warning was sent by Steam support to the user? It should not be possible that you would actually know this.

When they posted the message from Steam Support along with the time and date, just like last time we noted this and it was asked. Keep in mind some do admit their intentions, their actions, and messages received from Steam Support, meaning it's entirely possible to know, especially when people admit it. :humiliation:

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

Oh and what is the Steam RULE BREAKING attack on me personally that you would like to vent? Might as well complete the thought while you are behaving just like a 'Steam' developer moderator and enjoying breaking the rules.

snugginz님이 먼저 게시:

This is precisely the kind of ban baiting trolling personal attack that Steam FRAUD MODS get away with all day long. It's against the rules of Steam, and here we are on the STEAM MODERATED section of the forums with nothing but Steam rule breaking against me personally.

So I guess it is being proven right here that Steam moderators are just as bad as the developer moderators if they lock threads with the last two posts being transparent blatant LIES about what was said in that very thread, and let people like this^ make personal attacks breaking Steam rules.

Calling all forms of disagreement as personal attacks or rule breaking doesn't make it so, Knee has made accurate observations. :humiliation:

Everything you have done here has been a personal attack against me.
YES it is against Steam rules and obviously you know that.

For CERTAIN if I'd made any of these kinds of comments against him or others in this thread I would already be censored and banned. For CERTAIN. This is precisely inline with the kind of moderator abuses that I have been discussing. Moderators not held to account in the same way as users/players. Breaking the very rules they ban by.