Refund Policy

[Ninefinger]

Recently there have been games that have been adding things after purchasing them that were not part of the original product that was purchased and can not be refunded due to the policy.

I really want to suggest an option to not refund the game but to allow me to shift those funds entirely to steam rather than give them to the developer.

This would give steam an option to allow a game to be refunded at any time no matter what, no matter how much you played or anything and the customer would have an option to deny funds to practices they wish not to support allowing the consumer to have more voting power with their money.

I would gladly give steam the money I paid for a game that added scummy forced logins to third party apps, like forcing a Playstation Account link when I dont have a console and dont want anything to do with Playstation for eg., steam deserve the money ten fold for their service and valve and Gaben are such shining examples of practices I wish to support not this type of garbage.

Give me the power to vote with my money PLS Gaben Godfather of gaming.

[Defective Dopamine Pez Dispenser]

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

Origineel geplaatst door brian9824:

It was always LISTED that it needed one, they had it optional for a while, but always advertised that it was part of the requirements.

I dont care about the listing, if it sais one thing and does another I go by what its doing.

Several issues with this, OP.

The first issue with that approach is that regardless of whether you "care about" the listing, the listing constitutes due diligence on their part with respect to their obligation to notify you of the game's requirements. And then when you purchase the game and agree to its EULA, you also are agreeing to a specific license for use, and that license agreement includes you understanding and accepting those requirements.

The second issue is that this would be between you and the publisher, not you and Steam. Steam's refund policy is its own independent policy and has nothing to do with the license you agree to.

The third issue is ... the refund policy we have now didn't even exist until a lawsuit was brought in Australia. So there's very little interest on Valve's part in expanding that refund policy. On the contrary, they recently amended it to make it even more restrictive, by including time spent in early release into the limit beyond which you can't seek a refund.

None of which is to say this is a good thing necessarily. I'm not making a moral argument. I'm just saying... good luck, because the chances of any such policy existing are low. No company is going to offer a, "Refund at any time, even months or years later, even if you've played for hundreds of hours, for any reason you want, even if you previously agreed to the license" policy. Even GOG's refund policy is limited to 30 days, and it's significantly more generous than Steam's.

[Ninefinger]

The system is just broken in more ways that can be fixed and my feelings for wanting to take control and punish bad behavior and reward good behaviors is bad behavior and I see this but it still feels good and would leads to good things in terns of what I want and probably every other gamer including all that defend against it and so its hard to not want this.

I hate that fine print is acceptable as due diligence by society to begin with so I am just swinging at air but sometimes I just feel like swinging.

[Brian9824]

Translation - How dare clearly labeled requirements actually be enforced.

[Ninefinger]

But wait I see this post now

https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/0/4357872384979375096/

I dont know the validity of it all and didnt read it all but thats not the point the point is that there might be hope that some will have more power than I think and that is a good thing a step in the right direction, doesnt give me the power to spank them but they will get spanked.

[Brian9824]

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

But wait I see this post now

https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/0/4357872384979375096/

I dont know the validity of it all and didnt read it all but thats not the point the point is that there might be hope that some will have more power than I think and that is a good thing a step in the right direction, doesnt give me the power to spank them but they will get spanked.

There is no validity. The requirements were listed from day 1 which means there is no grounds.

You can't say the game is unplayable because you CHOOSE to not comply with the requirements for using it that were visible when you bought it.

[Mad Scientist]

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

But wait I see this post now

https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/0/4357872384979375096/

I dont know the validity of it all and didnt read it all but thats not the point the point is that there might be hope that some will have more power than I think and that is a good thing a step in the right direction, doesnt give me the power to spank them but they will get spanked.

Not-Applicable, it was written in advance as a base requirement, therefore it is now functioning exactly as written & intended.

Often people will cite various countries laws while having 0 understanding of the laws because they want to try bullying Valve or the Developer/Publisher, despite being aware of the requirement or failing to read the requirement pre-listed on the store page, thus exactly as advertised.

Random people citing laws that they do not comprehend does not bring any validity to their claims.

[Ninefinger]

Origineel geplaatst door brian9824:

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

But wait I see this post now

https://steamcommunity.com/app/553850/discussions/0/4357872384979375096/

I dont know the validity of it all and didnt read it all but thats not the point the point is that there might be hope that some will have more power than I think and that is a good thing a step in the right direction, doesnt give me the power to spank them but they will get spanked.

There is no validity. The requirements were listed from day 1 which means there is no grounds.

You can't say the game is unplayable because you CHOOSE to not comply with the requirements for using it that were visible when you bought it.

Like I said I dont know the validity, the point is the hope and step in the right direction if so.

[Mad Scientist]

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

Origineel geplaatst door brian9824:

There is no validity. The requirements were listed from day 1 which means there is no grounds.

You can't say the game is unplayable because you CHOOSE to not comply with the requirements for using it that were visible when you bought it.

Like I said I dont know the validity, the point is the hope and step in the right direction if so.

This is all literally coming from "This was listed on the store page as a requirement and they finally asked for psn despite always requiring it", so again - no validity of their claim, and the "Step in the right direction" is adding the pre-listed requirement based upon the advertised requirement.

[Brian9824]

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

Origineel geplaatst door brian9824:

There is no validity. The requirements were listed from day 1 which means there is no grounds.

You can't say the game is unplayable because you CHOOSE to not comply with the requirements for using it that were visible when you bought it.

Like I said I dont know the validity, the point is the hope and step in the right direction if so.

Which again, that claim is nothing. Now if the game NEVER listed PSN as being required then that would be VERY different.

[Ninefinger]

Origineel geplaatst door brian9824:

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

Like I said I dont know the validity, the point is the hope and step in the right direction if so.

Which again, that claim is nothing. Now if the game NEVER listed PSN as being required then that would be VERY different.

Im not arguing about weather it was listed as such or not or weather it will be enough to hold against and pushback depending on how much that is.

I am only saying that I hope for steps in the right direction and that thread gave me hope as an example is all im not trying to argue the fact, i know that society deems even fine print as due diligence dude, fine print, you cant get more scummy than that and its not only acceptable you can do it legally I dont know the full extent you can abuse that function to but I dont think its good.

So all I am saying is what I think, i think its good to be able to spank the devs and hope they get a good one. if not oh well, +1 for the corporate shills I guess.

My thoughts will still persist and my opinions on how much power we have with our money over the decisions that companies can make in good faith are probably not going to change. The implementation is just not going to happen due to "Laws" we make them we break them and we skirt around em we can unmake, re iterate and duck our cousins in some states.

[Mad Scientist]

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

Origineel geplaatst door brian9824:

Which again, that claim is nothing. Now if the game NEVER listed PSN as being required then that would be VERY different.

Im not arguing about weather it was listed as such or not or weather it will be enough to hold against and pushback depending on how much that is.

I am only saying that I hope for steps in the right direction and that thread gave me hope as an example is all im not trying to argue the fact, i know that society deems even fine print as due diligence dude, fine print, you cant get more scummy than that and its not only acceptable you can do it legally I dont know the full extent you can abuse that function to but I dont think its good.

So all I am saying is what I think, i think its good to be able to spank the devs and hope they get a good one. if not oh well, +1 for the corporate shills I guess.

My thoughts will still persist and my opinions on how much power we have with our money over the decisions that companies can make in good faith are probably not going to change. The implementation is just not going to happen due to "Laws" we make them we break them and we skirt around em we can unmake, re iterate and duck our cousins in some states.

There is nothing "scummy" about finally adding a required login that was a pre-listed requirement before purchasing the game.

[Ninefinger]

Origineel geplaatst door Mad Scientist:

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

Im not arguing about weather it was listed as such or not or weather it will be enough to hold against and pushback depending on how much that is.

I am only saying that I hope for steps in the right direction and that thread gave me hope as an example is all im not trying to argue the fact, i know that society deems even fine print as due diligence dude, fine print, you cant get more scummy than that and its not only acceptable you can do it legally I dont know the full extent you can abuse that function to but I dont think its good.

So all I am saying is what I think, i think its good to be able to spank the devs and hope they get a good one. if not oh well, +1 for the corporate shills I guess.

My thoughts will still persist and my opinions on how much power we have with our money over the decisions that companies can make in good faith are probably not going to change. The implementation is just not going to happen due to "Laws" we make them we break them and we skirt around em we can unmake, re iterate and duck our cousins in some states.

There is nothing "scummy" about finally adding a required login that was a pre-listed requirement before purchasing the game.

You are free to think that.

[Mad Scientist]

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

Origineel geplaatst door Mad Scientist:

There is nothing "scummy" about finally adding a required login that was a pre-listed requirement before purchasing the game.

You are free to think that.

If it's a literal listed requirement before you purchase it, and they finally finish implementing the login-check requirement, that is not a scummy practice as they literally advertised it as a requirement, so in fact it's not a scummy move to warn you in advance.

You were previously warned on the store page of the requirement.

[Brian9824]

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

Origineel geplaatst door Mad Scientist:

There is nothing "scummy" about finally adding a required login that was a pre-listed requirement before purchasing the game.

You are free to think that.

Clearly listed requirements are not fine print. I mean you sound like someone where if you asked an ATM to give you $100, and it gave you $1,000 you'd try to keep they money and say its scummy to take the money back...

[Ninefinger]

Origineel geplaatst door brian9824:

Origineel geplaatst door Ninefinger:

You are free to think that.

Clearly listed requirements are not fine print. I mean you sound like someone where if you asked an ATM to give you $100, and it gave you $1,000 you'd try to keep they money and say its scummy to take the money back...

My point is it doesnt matter if it was fine print it or fine print adjacent or anything along those lines, it may as well have been fine print to some people I imagine you can call them ignorant I see them for lack of a better word as victims although sounding harsh they are certainly not to blame imo, you are free to feel differently thats you brother.

I am not upset because it happened to me this is just one small game example of something that is allowed. Imagine what you can do with that the scum that could be defended. Rub some brain cells together and imagine the scum people can get away with currently legally as the system allows and imagine that people are actually starting to become more scummy and abusing things like fine print or updates or whatever they can whartever tool is at their disposal is now used for as nefarious a means as possible legally to get your money for propducts you thought you were getting but not quite or whatever and now imagine wanting the power to fix that in some way imagine the consumer haveing some power to lay down the spanking I like that thought I stand by that thought I push for that thought.

Because right now this ish gotta stop