Gaslighting should be against the rules.

[76561197963519852]

If you can't have a conversation with someone who has a different opinion than you without resorting to tactics that call into question a users "sanity" then the conversation loses it's entire focus.

If you can't talk to someone with calling them delusional, insane, braindead, etc then you're just insulting the other person and no actual dialogue ensues.

Thanks.

[MonkehMaster]

引用自 yankees992007：

This has been answered

Originally posted by RaimaNd:
Valve could easily just make it so that if you block someone you can't see ANYTHING of said person anymore and the blocked person also can't see anything of you. Other sites like reddit, instagram etc. do that.

yup, would help greatly here on the steam forums.

cause steams forums are in fact social media in a form, no matter it being claimed otherwise.

[Boblin the Goblin]

引用自 MonkehMaster：

nah, there is plenty of gaslighting going on in these forums, as well as trolling, passive aggressiveness, rude behavior, insulting behavior and much much more, or worse.

majority of the people on the forums, all know this to be true, even if people try to deny it.

gaslighting

manipulate (someone) using psychological methods into questioning their own sanity or powers of reasoning.

is not something hard to distinguish from trolling and can be used in trolling.

Yeah.

I've noticed a trend of people going back to edit comments to put in passive aggressive or snide remarks to prevent moderation.

[Boblin the Goblin]

引用自 yankees992007：

引用自 The Commendatore：

Oh, I don't know. Maybe to bypass your idea and still report you?

This has been answered

引用自 RaimaNd：

Valve could easily just make it so that if you block someone you can't see ANYTHING of said person anymore and the blocked person also can't see anything of you. Other sites like reddit, instagram etc. do that.

Those are social media sites.

[MonkehMaster]

if i want to correct spelling or add context, ect.., then i will do so, despite anyone likes of me doing it, or false claims of why im doing it.

and moderation can see edits, you arent avoiding moderation by editing your comments.

also, i dont break rules despite people claiming otherwise, support has also had to remove many many false bans and warnings for months, proving i havent.

and almost everyone edits their comments, unless you have perfectly conveyed your thoughts, worded things correctly, or have perfect spelling, ect..

not to mention other people edit too add more context in their comments/replies, or even quote more after i have made a comment, so i address them when needed.

[Boblin the Goblin]

引用自 MonkehMaster：

if i want to correct spelling or add context, then i will do so, despite anyone likes of me doing it, of false claims of why im doing it.

and moderation can see edits, you arent avoiding moderation by editing your comments.

also, i dont break rules despite people claiming otherwise.

and almost everyone edits their comments, unless you have perfectly conveyed your thoughts, or have perfect spelling, ect..

Didn't say anything about spelling or context.

[Tito Shivan]

引用自 MonkehMaster：

yup, would help greatly here on the steam forums.

You people would still peek. You'd notice a missing reply, half a phone chat or a mention to someone you don't see and you'd go incognito to check if someone you blocked is there and what they're saying.

[Tito Shivan]

引用自 MonkehMaster：

"you people" why word it that way?

Worded it wrong. Stay around enough time and you'll see it's not uncommon to have certain individuals who routinely reply to people they admit having blocked. For those it's going to be no difference the comment being collapsed as now or simply not being show.

引用自 MonkehMaster：

someone quotes it and its visible, be it done purposely or not.

Even if Valve managed to redo the quote system so quotes wouldn't be seen for people who still peek what their blocked users say would make no difference.

[MonkehMaster]

引用自 Tito Shivan：

引用自 MonkehMaster：

"you people" why word it that way?

Worded it wrong. Stay around enough time and you'll see it's not uncommon to have certain individuals who routinely reply to people they admit having blocked. For those it's going to be no difference the comment being collapsed as now or simply not being show.

引用自 MonkehMaster：

someone quotes it and its visible, be it done purposely or not.

Even if Valve managed to redo the quote system so quotes wouldn't be seen for people who still peek what their blocked users say would make no difference.

well, those people can peek, im not those people.

also, i have been here for well over a decade, i know what goes on.

actually, you know how long i have been here, we have spoken many a times.

you likely have also moderated me back in the days (when you were a Vmod), in most case rightfully so, now a days, im past that.

i will also add, that i didnt use the forums, for a portion of my time using steam, as well.

[niaiserie]

tldr essay andys in here. yall should just be happy i graced this thread with my presence. honestly, nobody else would bother to even put up with walls of text this long. maybe give a second or third thought before wasting your time on the steam forums, it's a little bit of a mental health red flag tbh.

[William Shakesman]

引用自 Tito Shivan：

引用自 RaimaNd：

Valve could easily just make it so that if you block someone you can't see ANYTHING of said person anymore and the blocked person also can't see anything of you. Other sites like reddit, instagram etc. do that.

And the people would still check for them. It's not as much a problem of the feature as it is of the people using it.

引用自 sungoddess14：

If mass reporting worked, I would've been banned more often.

Some people would wear as a medal getting any of the former ex-moderators banned. Yet it hasn't happened.

引用自 fluxtorrent：

Complaints about mass reports and "people getting away without being moderated" are hardly on topic. Unless of course I'm completely wrong about reality

That's the thing. For some people on the forums there's a 'secret cabal' (name not mine) of people gathering around and coordinating 'attacks' against certain individuals with the purpose of getting them banned.

And when others say to them that's unlikely and more probably they're just being regularly moderated (with all the faults of the actual moderation) they call gaslighting to that. Which goes right back to the OP.

引用自 Seraphita：

I found that profile report takes a LOT more time or something. Maybe it's a different team taking care of it? You also have to make sure that the profile IS wrong. A racist name should normally do it. I would find very strange that steam would not do anything about that.

UGC moderation has always taken a lot of time. There's tons of content uploaded daily and a large amount of reports to deal.
I've had toxic groups reported dealt with after a month or two sometimes.

Its the same sort of thing with people who think the police are corrupt or evil. If they just stopped committing crimes, their interactions with the police would be nothing but positive, but people don't ever want to try to fix their own behavior so there are endless conspiracy theories about mods and cops.

[The Commendatore]

引用自 yankees992007：

引用自 The Commendatore：

Oh, I don't know. Maybe to bypass your idea and still report you?

This has been answered

You actually think that'll stop it? Hoo boy...

[76561197963519852]

引用自 BJWyler：

Here's the thing about respect - especially mutual respect: it's given when it is earned. And one must first be able to give respect before expecting to get any in return. When one is incapable of giving that respect, by accusing practically everyone else in a game of cheating - especially those who are better and more knowledgeable at a game than oneself, then one should absolutely not be surprised when one does not get respect.

When this scenario holds true and cannot be denied:

引用自 BJWyler：

And it is without any irony whatsoever, that if someone else pulled the "Pre-fire timed shot" on him and killed him, he would accuse that person of being a cheater.

then there can be no respect for a player such as that.

There used to be a term we called our kids back when they were toddlers and exhibited the same qualities: Drama Queens. Most everybody goes through that phase, and most everybody grows out of it at an early age. Unfortunately, as evidenced, some people do not grow out of that phase. I've played multiplayer games for the last 20 years. I've played competitively at a high level. Yeah, there are cheaters, but they are by no means the biggest issue in these games. If anything, it's the people like these Drama Queens that cause the most damage, harm, and toxicity to the multiplayer community. Which is a real shame, because cheaters are easily dealt with. The toxic Drama Queens, not so much.

Stating facts is not gaslighting. And that is the simple truth. It's unfortunate that some people simply cannot handle the truth when it comes to personal failings. We all have biases and failings - it's how we overcome them that makes the difference. Some people don't even try, and use gaslighting themselves to avoid simple, obvious, and plain facts.

引用自 HulaGirl86：

That is a terrible idea, even if there were punishments for it. People would push to find the boundaries and dance on the line clogging the system with unnecessary reports.

That already happens now, so this would have no impact. The simple fact of the matter is that there are rules to follow on forums and if one wants to have genuine conversations, then one must be willing to accept facts and realities that do not actually line up with one's own biased feelings and observations. Failure to do so is not discussing in good faith. Rule breaking content should be reported every time it is witnessed. It's then up to the moderation team to be consistent with handling said content. If anything, there should be escalating punishment against habitual rule-breakers. Unfortunately far too many of them are given far too many second chances to continue to make a mess of the forums.

Thanks for your reply.

I think I can sum up our disagreement.

I think cheating, or rather, the lack of competitive integrity in a game that revolves around a competitive mode, is the biggest problem in the game and for you, it's not the same priority level of an issue.

Nothing left to be said.

I don't think I am a "drama queen" for taking this position.

[H4CK3R MAN]

引用自 redacted：

引用自 BJWyler：

Here's the thing about respect - especially mutual respect: it's given when it is earned. And one must first be able to give respect before expecting to get any in return. When one is incapable of giving that respect, by accusing practically everyone else in a game of cheating - especially those who are better and more knowledgeable at a game than oneself, then one should absolutely not be surprised when one does not get respect.

When this scenario holds true and cannot be denied:

then there can be no respect for a player such as that.

There used to be a term we called our kids back when they were toddlers and exhibited the same qualities: Drama Queens. Most everybody goes through that phase, and most everybody grows out of it at an early age. Unfortunately, as evidenced, some people do not grow out of that phase. I've played multiplayer games for the last 20 years. I've played competitively at a high level. Yeah, there are cheaters, but they are by no means the biggest issue in these games. If anything, it's the people like these Drama Queens that cause the most damage, harm, and toxicity to the multiplayer community. Which is a real shame, because cheaters are easily dealt with. The toxic Drama Queens, not so much.

Stating facts is not gaslighting. And that is the simple truth. It's unfortunate that some people simply cannot handle the truth when it comes to personal failings. We all have biases and failings - it's how we overcome them that makes the difference. Some people don't even try, and use gaslighting themselves to avoid simple, obvious, and plain facts.


That already happens now, so this would have no impact. The simple fact of the matter is that there are rules to follow on forums and if one wants to have genuine conversations, then one must be willing to accept facts and realities that do not actually line up with one's own biased feelings and observations. Failure to do so is not discussing in good faith. Rule breaking content should be reported every time it is witnessed. It's then up to the moderation team to be consistent with handling said content. If anything, there should be escalating punishment against habitual rule-breakers. Unfortunately far too many of them are given far too many second chances to continue to make a mess of the forums.

Thanks for your reply.

I think I can sum up our disagreement.

I think cheating, or rather, the lack of competitive integrity in a game that revolves around a competitive mode, is the biggest problem in the game and for you, it's not the same priority level of an issue.

Nothing left to be said.

I don't think I am a "drama queen" for taking this position.

Being concerned about cheaters is fine. however accusing everybody of cheating or using bought accounts when you're the lowest skill level you can be in a game is something else

[Amaterasu]

You know, 90% of all problems on the Steam forums would magically go away if people would stop letting others live rent free in their heads and would just hit the block button.

[76561197963519852]

引用自 H4CK3R MAN：

引用自 redacted：

Thanks for your reply.

I think I can sum up our disagreement.

I think cheating, or rather, the lack of competitive integrity in a game that revolves around a competitive mode, is the biggest problem in the game and for you, it's not the same priority level of an issue.

Nothing left to be said.

I don't think I am a "drama queen" for taking this position.

Being concerned about cheaters is fine. however accusing everybody of cheating or using bought accounts when you're the lowest skill level you can be in a game is something else

Fair enough. Although, you played side by side with cheaters for how many matches and never suspected a thing, right?

So perhaps there's a difference of perception, which again, can't be ruled out as right or wrong.

This falls back to: "perception is reality."

I think if I hadn't been exposed to match tracking sites and seen the scale of the problem quantified, I'd never have a reason to accuse anyone. Simply stated, I had no idea what a bought account or a cheater was until I started researching it.

However, once I did research, it became a lot more difficult to ignore what I consider red flags.

So for you, playing with people who cheated along side you, wasn't a big deal as you had no reason to suspect them and why would you. These were *your friends* snd not some randoms.

But that's kind of the heart of the issue. People are willing to lie to their own friends about their bad behavior to save face. This is gas-light behavior BTW.

Besides just wasting others time in game, the longer standing issue is that it hurts the community trust when this happens.

I don't want to accuse anyone anymore than I want to not trust community. However, that's the conclusion I've come to. Right or wrong.