Achievements "100% Complete" Should Not Include DLC

[Good Night Owl]

In an age where games have $600 'worth' of DLC, it seems kind of unreasonable to take away players' 100% achievement completion the moment a DLC comes out. Make that separate.

[potato]

you don't have to get 100%, achievements are worthless

[Sleepy Yoshi]

The common consensus is that developers already have this ability though I've seen a couple disputing the possibility or ease of doing so as of late.

Either way Valve doesn't tend to force things on developer and leaves them to their own devices. Personally I'd like to see them separated as well. Not for the 100% even, but because it makes it easy at a glance to know which achievements are tied to which dlc. Usually I have to rely on Steam guides or third party sites for this, but for less popular games this doesn't always work.

[FafnirChaos]

I believe achievements should be an Unlockable option for games you enjoyed, and want more content out of, not instantly unlocked and requiring you to play through in order to 100% it.

Edit: Also get rid of these "Oh you started a new game - here's your obligation to complete it - otherwise enjoy your low percentage rating on your profile"

There are so many games on my profile I wish I could instantly remove from it, that I can't because I got that achievement from doing 1 thing in the game.

[Ben Lubar]

Valve should change the achievement showcase to a "here are games I like to complete achievements in" showcase so people can stop complaining about video games having objectives they don't want to do

[Ben Lubar]

Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:

The common consensus is that developers already have this ability though I've seen a couple disputing the possibility or ease of doing so as of late.

Either way Valve doesn't tend to force things on developer and leaves them to their own devices. Personally I'd like to see them separated as well. Not for the 100% even, but because it makes it easy at a glance to know which achievements are tied to which dlc. Usually I have to rely on Steam guides or third party sites for this, but for less popular games this doesn't always work.

No, the only non-game I've ever seen with achievements was a soundtrack. And there's no way to see that achievement other than on the store page for the soundtrack. There's no way to assign achievements to a DLC, or even to put them in groups like TF2 has.

[FafnirChaos]

Originally posted by Ben Lubar:

Valve should change the achievement showcase to a "here are games I like to complete achievements in" showcase so people can stop complaining about video games having objectives they don't want to do

If they allowed me to remove the game along with the achievement progress - Then I wouldn't even care.

However since they got rid of that - they should make them unlockable so that in the event we do not like a game - refund it - or remove it - we should not have that consequence to 100% that garbage game before removing it - just because "you started a new game".

That or make developers make Achievements that Achieve things like - Chrono triggers achievements.

[cinedine]

Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:

Personally I'd like to see them separated as well. Not for the 100% even, but because it makes it easy at a glance to know which achievements are tied to which dlc.

The problem is that not every achievement is strictly tied to a DLC. Euro Truck Simulator has several achievement requiring two DLCs. For American Trucks Simulator a lot of people hope for some kind of "Route 66" or "coast to caost" achievement, but the game is only California with each state being its own DLC.
Other games change the requirements depending on whether you have DLC enabled. Euro Truck Simulator again with its "100% map discovery" will strictly go for the available map, so each map DLC will count against it, but so do mods with smaller maps. Titan Quest has several achievements for finishing the game on Legendary with a class, which will either trigger on end of act 4 or if you have Ragnorok DLC on end of act 5.
Then there are games which count DLC against the achievement no matter whether you own i, like some fighting games' "do something with all characters". As the DLC characters are patched into your game for multiplayer purposes, but you won't be able to access them.

[FafnirChaos]

Originally posted by cinedine:

Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:

Personally I'd like to see them separated as well. Not for the 100% even, but because it makes it easy at a glance to know which achievements are tied to which dlc.

The problem is that not every achievement is strictly tied to a DLC. Euro Truck Simulator has several achievement requiring two DLCs. For American Trucks Simulator a lot of people hope for some kind of "Route 66" or "coast to caost" achievement, but the game is only California with each state being its own DLC.
Other games change the requirements depending on whether you have DLC enabled. Euro Truck Simulator again with its "100% map discovery" will strictly go for the available map, so each map DLC will count against it, but so do mods with smaller maps. Titan Quest has several achievements for finishing the game on Legendary with a class, which will either trigger on end of act 4 or if you have Ragnorok DLC on end of act 5.
Then there are games which count DLC against the achievement no matter whether you own i, like some fighting games' "do something with all characters". As the DLC characters are patched into your game for multiplayer purposes, but you won't be able to access them.

Well some games have achievements that if you get all the achievements before the DLC then you've "100%" the game. The DLC achievements are also on console - like for example Playstation - you can get all the trophies for a game and get that platinum trophy - however because the DLC has it's own trophies that are subset and have nothing to do with actual full game - While you can get that platinum trophy without the dlc, you will never get 100% trophies.

Now if steam subset their achievements towards DLC, you could 100% the base game which would give you, your ribbon - however because you didn't get the DLC lets say your over all achievements would be lower. The issue here is your losing that ribbon(platinum trophy in a sense) to a DLC because steam never updated their achievement structure.

a simple solution would be again to give people their blue ribbon for completing the main game and all achievements - and giving them a gold ribbon for beating all the subset achievements that comes with DLC - kind of like their trading cards - with regular and foil.

[FafnirChaos]

Another issue that comes to mind is unobtainable achievements like multiplayer ones in dead single player games - now while not all companies care about that - as very few developers remove those achievements from the game - thus if a game comes to a point where you cannot achieve a unobtainable achievement - simple solution to that would be to remove the requirements for the 100% achievement - and give those who got 100% within the that time frame a special ribbon for completing that achievement - that way anybody who has completed the game after the shutdown can still achieve 100% and those who got it prior wouldn't feel like they wasted that entire time going for those achievements.

Edit: Achievements/Trophies in reality = Time spent + stress - Like i said before they should be unlockable for when you want to do them or IF, and should actually be for achieving things rather than stupid stuff like for the third time - starting a new game.

[Sleepy Yoshi]

Originally posted by Ben Lubar:

Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:

The common consensus is that developers already have this ability though I've seen a couple disputing the possibility or ease of doing so as of late.

Either way Valve doesn't tend to force things on developer and leaves them to their own devices. Personally I'd like to see them separated as well. Not for the 100% even, but because it makes it easy at a glance to know which achievements are tied to which dlc. Usually I have to rely on Steam guides or third party sites for this, but for less popular games this doesn't always work.

No, the only non-game I've ever seen with achievements was a soundtrack. And there's no way to see that achievement other than on the store page for the soundtrack. There's no way to assign achievements to a DLC, or even to put them in groups like TF2 has.

Funny you should mention TF2, because that's actually in line with what I personally want to see more of. But ya, several people have told me that the ability to do so doesn't exist which is unfortunate.

As far as the rest, I've only seen the soundtrack and Tropico 4 with it's Modern City dlc, but those achievements tied directly to the dlc don't actually function and like you said will give an error if you try to look at the achievement page. The one's that actually unlock are those same achievements that are duplicated in the base game. But for years every thread it's brought up that "its possible" with linking back to this thread(locked recently for necro): https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/3185654583878312438/#c3185654583885721179

It does seem like if it were legitimately possible there would be some examples of it working in the wild and you're not the only developer I've seen say it's not possible. So perhaps this is just a myth that's been propagated so much it's taken as the truth now.

Originally posted by cinedine:

Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:

Personally I'd like to see them separated as well. Not for the 100% even, but because it makes it easy at a glance to know which achievements are tied to which dlc.

The problem is that not every achievement is strictly tied to a DLC...

If the achievement is not strictly tied to a dlc, it seems to me it being under the base game itself would still make the most sense. Steam guides can still cover the edge cases where owning a dlc changes the requirements for an achievement that would otherwise be achievable with just the base game.

[BJWyler]

Originally posted by cinedine:

Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:

Personally I'd like to see them separated as well. Not for the 100% even, but because it makes it easy at a glance to know which achievements are tied to which dlc.

The problem is that not every achievement is strictly tied to a DLC. Euro Truck Simulator has several achievement requiring two DLCs. For American Trucks Simulator a lot of people hope for some kind of "Route 66" or "coast to caost" achievement, but the game is only California with each state being its own DLC.
Other games change the requirements depending on whether you have DLC enabled. Euro Truck Simulator again with its "100% map discovery" will strictly go for the available map, so each map DLC will count against it, but so do mods with smaller maps. Titan Quest has several achievements for finishing the game on Legendary with a class, which will either trigger on end of act 4 or if you have Ragnorok DLC on end of act 5.
Then there are games which count DLC against the achievement no matter whether you own i, like some fighting games' "do something with all characters". As the DLC characters are patched into your game for multiplayer purposes, but you won't be able to access them.

Indeed, then you have games with thousands of achievements, like train simulator because it has a thousand DLCs.

No thanks to that. I like to have all my achievements all tied to the main game to keep things nice and tidy. I don't need a thousand different listings in my library for each and every DLC I own with achievements tied to it.

If you want 100% completion for a game. Then you do 100% of the content, and that content includes anything added to the game like DLC. Simple as.

[FafnirChaos]

Originally posted by BJWyler:

Originally posted by cinedine:

The problem is that not every achievement is strictly tied to a DLC. Euro Truck Simulator has several achievement requiring two DLCs. For American Trucks Simulator a lot of people hope for some kind of "Route 66" or "coast to caost" achievement, but the game is only California with each state being its own DLC.
Other games change the requirements depending on whether you have DLC enabled. Euro Truck Simulator again with its "100% map discovery" will strictly go for the available map, so each map DLC will count against it, but so do mods with smaller maps. Titan Quest has several achievements for finishing the game on Legendary with a class, which will either trigger on end of act 4 or if you have Ragnorok DLC on end of act 5.
Then there are games which count DLC against the achievement no matter whether you own i, like some fighting games' "do something with all characters". As the DLC characters are patched into your game for multiplayer purposes, but you won't be able to access them.

Indeed, then you have games with thousands of achievements, like train simulator because it has a thousand DLCs.

No thanks to that. I like to have all my achievements all tied to the main game to keep things nice and tidy. I don't need a thousand different listings in my library for each and every DLC I own with achievements tied to it.

If you want 100% completion for a game. Then you do 100% of the content, and that content includes anything added to the game like DLC. Simple as.

That's extremely anti-consumer. Given that you bought base game and did everything within that base game content - you should be given your 100% achievement ribbon.

Anything added Afterwards is extra content - and really has nothing to do with base game - thus those achievements should be separated from base game achievements.

If you told somebody that in order to 100% a game they are required buy dlc to get it - Your basically telling people that they only bought part 1 of that game and need to fork over more time and money just to say they finished it.

[Sleepy Yoshi]

Originally posted by BJWyler:

Originally posted by cinedine:

The problem is that not every achievement is strictly tied to a DLC. Euro Truck Simulator has several achievement requiring two DLCs. For American Trucks Simulator a lot of people hope for some kind of "Route 66" or "coast to caost" achievement, but the game is only California with each state being its own DLC.
Other games change the requirements depending on whether you have DLC enabled. Euro Truck Simulator again with its "100% map discovery" will strictly go for the available map, so each map DLC will count against it, but so do mods with smaller maps. Titan Quest has several achievements for finishing the game on Legendary with a class, which will either trigger on end of act 4 or if you have Ragnorok DLC on end of act 5.
Then there are games which count DLC against the achievement no matter whether you own i, like some fighting games' "do something with all characters". As the DLC characters are patched into your game for multiplayer purposes, but you won't be able to access them.

Indeed, then you have games with thousands of achievements, like train simulator because it has a thousand DLCs.

No thanks to that. I like to have all my achievements all tied to the main game to keep things nice and tidy. I don't need a thousand different listings in my library for each and every DLC I own with achievements tied to it.

If you want 100% completion for a game. Then you do 100% of the content, and that content includes anything added to the game like DLC. Simple as.

I don't really see why it would be necessary for each dlc to have it's own individual library entry.

[FafnirChaos]

Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:

Originally posted by BJWyler:

Indeed, then you have games with thousands of achievements, like train simulator because it has a thousand DLCs.

No thanks to that. I like to have all my achievements all tied to the main game to keep things nice and tidy. I don't need a thousand different listings in my library for each and every DLC I own with achievements tied to it.

If you want 100% completion for a game. Then you do 100% of the content, and that content includes anything added to the game like DLC. Simple as.

I don't really see why it would be necessary for each dlc to have it's own individual library entry.

Playstation does that with it's trophy system - despite all the problems with playstation - it has the best achievement system out there.

Telling people to buy a DLC to get their 100% achievement badge back after they 100% the game is most anti-consumer thing you could do - as anybody who cares about their overall completion percentage on their profile - is going to be required to buy that DLC if they want to maintain that 100%. Even if they said - I 100% this game and I want to move on.

What happens then is that doesn't go into your 100% category it goes into backlog in your profile sitting there waiting for you to purchase that dlc so that you can 100% complete that game.

subsetting it would give consumers who care about that percentage a choice as opposed to a requirement.

[Sleepy Yoshi]

Originally posted by FafnirChaos:

Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:

I don't really see why it would be necessary for each dlc to have it's own individual library entry.

Playstation does that with it's trophy system - despite all the problems with playstation - it has the best achievement system out there....

I am for separating base game and dlc achievements. However, what he mentioned is the dlc showing up as individual library entries. Going to my library and seeing:

Euro Truck Simulator 2
Euro Truck Simulator 2 Beyond the Baltic Sea (dlc)
Euro Truck Simulator 2 Going East (dlc)
Euro Truck Simulator 2 Iberia (dlc)
....and so on.

Isn't something I find desirable either. Especially with games like he mentioned that have a significant amount of dlc. Just looking through my own profile if it was implemented as individual library entries like that my library list would grow by over 700 items. No thanks!

I'd much rather have something more in line with going to Euro Truck Simulator 2's achievement page and having a drop down box for 'base game', 'Beyond the Baltic Sea', 'Going East', 'Iberia' and the other dlc that have achievements tied to them.