Link filter

[Hankleton]

Can steam at least give an option to disable the link filter? It's quite annoying and not very necessary.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Silicon Vampire の投稿を引用：

since time began, optional security measures have been completely ineffective.

This was nonsense last time I saw you post it too, but at least you didn't lock the thread this time I guess. Just going to repost my response from then:

"Is Steam Guard, then, completely ineffective? Are my browser's security options completely ineffective? Are virus/malware scanners, even ones that come with the OS like MSE, completely ineffective? All those warnings browsers or OSs give you that end with a "don't show again for this site/program" checkbox? Hardware authenticators? The pin/fingerprint lock screen on my phone? The locks on the doors and windows of my house?

There's an entire world of security precautions out there that people can choose to use or not use at particular times. It's normal."

[Ranko]

Gus the Crocodile の投稿を引用：

Silicon Vampire の投稿を引用：

since time began, optional security measures have been completely ineffective.

This was nonsense last time I saw you post it too, but at least you didn't lock the thread this time I guess. Just going to repost my response from then:

"Is Steam Guard, then, completely ineffective? Are my browser's security options completely ineffective? Are virus/malware scanners, even ones that come with the OS like MSE, completely ineffective? All those warnings browsers or OSs give you that end with a "don't show again for this site/program" checkbox? Hardware authenticators? The pin/fingerprint lock screen on my phone? The locks on the doors and windows of my house?

There's an entire world of security precautions out there that people can choose to use or not use at particular times. It's normal."

I think you took what he meant by optional wrong. If people have the ability to turn it off they will, I mean, just look at the people who say "you can only get a virus if you're stupid" I guarantee you those dudes have a few on their systems, but since they won't check it out, they'll never know :P

[Gus the Crocodile]

Malik Blishtar の投稿を引用：

I think you took what he meant by optional wrong. If people have the ability to turn it off they will,

Except I just gave a bunch of examples precisely to demonstrate that this is not any kind of rule. Does everyone have Steam Guard turned off? Does everyone leave their doors unlocked when they go out?

[Ranko]

Gus the Crocodile の投稿を引用：

Malik Blishtar の投稿を引用：

I think you took what he meant by optional wrong. If people have the ability to turn it off they will,

Except I just gave a bunch of examples precisely to demonstrate that this is not any kind of rule. Does everyone have Steam Guard turned off? Does everyone leave their doors unlocked when they go out?

Yeah but with this, one bad apple can ruin the bunch per say. If someone you trust fairly well, gets hijacked, and then they spread a link, it spreads to someone else, and so on and so forth, thus rendering most of steamguard useless.

[Gus the Crocodile]

That's great and all (I mean, I disagree with the hypothesis, but whatever), and if that's the point SV wanted to make, that's what they should have said. The statement "since time began, optional security measures have been completely ineffective" is still absurd nonsense, demonstrably untrue.

[Dendrobates Tinctorius]

Gus the Crocodile の投稿を引用：

Does everyone have Steam Guard turned off?

Yes. It's required if you want to do things like trade. Hence the threads that show up pretty often like "help i am turn off steam guard now i cant trade whyyyyyyyyy"

[Ranko]

Gus the Crocodile の投稿を引用：

That's great and all (I mean, I disagree with the hypothesis, but whatever), and if that's the point SV wanted to make, that's what they should have said. The statement "since time began, optional security measures have been completely ineffective" is still absurd nonsense, demonstrably untrue.

It's true for the masses, not as true for most people who know how to work a computer. I would especially feel bad for parents who have children that use Steam.... you know, the ones where the parent's credit cards are involved?... *shudders* imagine getting a call from your bank the next day hearing about how you just lost 3 grand over a game.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Dendrobates Tinctorius の投稿を引用：

Gus the Crocodile の投稿を引用：

Does everyone have Steam Guard turned off?

Yes.

Note the "everyone" in the question you're answering.

Malik Blishtar の投稿を引用：

It's true for the masses

Not unless you step into truism and define "the masses" as "the set of people for which the statement is true". It's very simple. A lock on your door is an optional security measure. Do you agree with the statement that locks, as a concept, are "completely ineffective"? Because if not, you by definition don't agree that since time began, optional security measures have been completely imeffective.

I'm glad you have more arguments to make on the topic, other examples that are more specific. That's precisely what I'd like to see rather than people (in positions of power, no less) arguing by ridiculous generalisation.

[aiusepsi]

Before the link filter existed, Steam would warn you when clicking on a link in chat to be careful about the site you were going to, with the option to not show the warning again.

Being able to turn off the warning didn't work. That's why you can't turn the link filter off.

[falkin42]

I maintain it has nothing to do with security. All that warning says is that you're going to a non-Steam site, and there is no mention of being careful about clicking things. It's a nag screen, and I don't like them.

[aiusepsi]

falkin42 の投稿を引用：

I maintain it has nothing to do with security. All that warning says is that you're going to a non-Steam site, and there is no mention of being careful about clicking things. It's a nag screen, and I don't like them.

You could maintain that the Earth is flat, but that wouldn't make you right.

The warning has multiple levels. If you're going to something known-good, like http://google.com or http://bbc.co.uk you're redirected straight there, no warning or message of any kind. If it's a site for which the URL is close to a real Steam site, you get a scary warning in red that it might be impersonating a real Steam site, and the click-through link includes the words "I understand the risk". Otherwise, you get a yellow, less severe warning.

The intent is to make users especially aware if the link they're trying to access is close to a real link, which is a tactic which is routinely used by phishers. Stuff that's known not to be a phishing link isn't warned about at all. You may not have noticed, but hijackings and item thefts attributable to phishers have been a real problem around these parts lately, and this feature is directly targeted at that problem.

[falkin42]

No, I hadn't noticed any problems.
"Stuff that's known not to be a phishing link isn't warned about at all." - So like humble bundle isn't known good? That's a link that brought me to this discussion. And way to go for a personal attack.
And as pointed out before, people will just click through the warning. I'll admit I didn't realize there were two different ones, but that doesn't mean I've been attacked or hijacked. I'm willing to take risks, because if I can't fix my own problems then my boss needs to stop paying me to fix other people's.

[Black Blade]

falkin42 の投稿を引用：

No, I hadn't noticed any problems.
"Stuff that's known not to be a phishing link isn't warned about at all." - So like humble bundle isn't known good? That's a link that brought me to this discussion. And way to go for a personal attack.
And as pointed out before, people will just click through the warning. I'll admit I didn't realize there were two different ones, but that doesn't mean I've been attacked or hijacked. I'm willing to take risks, because if I can't fix my own problems then my boss needs to stop paying me to fix other people's.

In humble Bundle case its likely to be one that was not yet white list but most likely will, in some point in time, there slowly white listing sites

[aiusepsi]

falkin42 の投稿を引用：

No, I hadn't noticed any problems.
"Stuff that's known not to be a phishing link isn't warned about at all." - So like humble bundle isn't known good? That's a link that brought me to this discussion. And way to go for a personal attack.

I suppose I could rephrase "One could maintain that the Earth is flat, but that wouldn't make one right." But using "one" makes you... sorry, one, sound like the Queen.

Known-good by necessity has to be a human-curated list, they're not going to catch everything. I would imagine that they're frequently adding things to it.

And as pointed out before, people will just click through the warning. I'll admit I didn't realize there were two different ones, but that doesn't mean I've been attacked or hijacked. I'm willing to take risks, because if I can't fix my own problems then my boss needs to stop paying me to fix other people's.

Like I said previously, the warning that could be switched off has, empirically, not worked. The link filter seems to be doing a better job. It's a shame that Valve hasn't released the data on the change in number of phishing support incidents, because without the data it's hard to say for sure.

I'm glad that you feel you don't need a warning, but it's not just for you. It's somewhat analogous to vaccinations; for the good of society as a whole, everybody needs to be vaccinated. We vaccinate against Rubella because it can cause severe problems for the baby if a mother catches it during pregnancy, but we vaccinate boys too even though the disease itself is relatively harmless in order to limit the spread.

You may not need the warning, but for the good of the Steam community as a whole it needs to exist.

[Dendrobates Tinctorius]

Gus the Crocodile の投稿を引用：

Note the "everyone" in the question you're answering.

Literally every single person has it turned off, in much the same way it's optional since it's actually required for trading.