bans are not a punishment, and only make behaviour worse

[Psymon²]

the fault lies in the woefully inconsistent moderation.
which is of course a result of report abuse.

moderators do not actively visit threads, or investigate reported posts to establish context.
nor do support (mostly) when contesting a ban.

the result is, someone will get "trolled" and antagonised into retaliation, then banned, they'll see all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ others get away with, then either return with a vengeance, or write the forums off as the dumpster fire they are.

therefore, getting a ban is more like doing someone a favour, letting them get away from the farce of so called "discussion".

the tools that the moderators have to utilise are archaic at best, and utterly misused at worst.

valve have no reason to care about these forums, because there's no return on any investment.

as such, all that's left is the fanbois, doing what fanbois do best.

the suggestion?
perform due diligence to ensure the ♥♥♥♥ stirring few aren't dominating the forums, and provide some genuinely helpful guidance instead of just vague and inconsistent reasoning that seems entirely at the whim of nobodies.

in fact, replace the whole forums with something that's not a outdated mess of barely 90s level technology.
and employ a proper team of moderation and support who care about keeping the forums how they're supposed to be:

"for everyone, new and advanced user alike" - literally on the front page of the forums
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/

"please make sure you are being relevant, constructive, and polite" - literally at the top of the rules
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/6862-8119-C23E-EA7B

[AROCK!!!]

Originally posted by The Commendatore:

Originally posted by cinedine:

...Else they stop giving a ♥♥♥♥ and ultimately leave your service.

And yet you're here. A testament to the opposite of what you claim will happen.

Lol. I may post in the forums, but that is the extent of it, and I am not alone in this.

I have never been a STEAM fan, and in most every case I would only buy from STEAM when marked down 75% or more.

Now, due to things like what we are discussing here I no longer buy from STEAM, or even games that require STEAM.

People here like to laugh at and talk smack about Epic and all the money it's losing, but are too blind and stupid to see that Epic is using the free games to build a customer base, many of which are not beholden to STEAM like the rabid fanbois we see here.


Even GOG is getting more and more new games..I pre ordered STALKER 2 from them.


STEAM needs to pull its head from its ass and realise it's no longer the only, or even main game in town anymore.

[The Commendatore]

Originally posted by ÁROCK!!!:

Originally posted by The Commendatore:

And yet you're here. A testament to the opposite of what you claim will happen.

Lol. I may post in the forums, but that is the extent of it, and I am not alone in this.

I have never been a STEAM fan, and in most every case I would only buy from STEAM when marked down 75% or more.

Now, due to things like what we are discussing here I no longer buy from STEAM, or even games that require STEAM.

People here like to laugh at and talk smack about Epic and all the money it's losing, but are too blind and stupid to see that Epic is using the free games to build a customer base, many of which are not beholden to STEAM like the rabid fanbois we see here.


Even GOG is getting more and more new games..I pre ordered STALKER 2 from them.


STEAM needs to pull its head from its ass and realise it's no longer the only, or even main game in town anymore.

Do I get anything if I act like I care? Nobody's forcing you to use an optional forum. Go play your games instead.

[FOXDUDE69]

Originally posted by Rainbow Unicorn Magic:

you will notice several of these names are excessive instigators this was a test to identify all the users on steam community, the numbers are so low its really weird , actually less then .001% of steams population use this forum

The reason for that is simple. Toxic regulars often gang up on newcomers, these newcomers then immediately run away or comment on their behavior and then get banned, either way, they typically don't return.

And that's how the Hub for the most popular PC gaming platform is a place gamers want nothing to do with. No surprise there, considering how hostile this place is to gamers and their suggestions. Damn, even a former mod, who is typically seen being rude to other users, uses "gamer" in a derogatory way. That's how much Valve dropped the ball here.

In the last 3 years, the only newcomers I've seen that stuck around became part of the group that constantly harasses newcomers or anyone that's not a part of their group, sometimes not just in the forums, but by targeting users on their profiles with the help of friends and alt accounts.

Observe now as someone tries to gaslight and claim this never happened.

Those rare, stubborn few who do stick around and do not join this group (like myself), get to see exactly just how bad Valve's moderation and support truly are, and we start taking our money elsewhere.

I've been using Steam for 18 years and for most of that time, I was a loyal customer and recommended Steam to friends and family. After 3 years of posting in the Steam Hub... I'm no longer like that, I don't recommend Steam to anyone, I'm bringing my patronage to it's competitors and 99% of my new Steam keys are now bought on third party websites. The only way I'll give money to Steam is if there's an early access game that I *really* want to support that's not available for purchase anywhere else, and that's quite rare. Even my Steam Deck was payed for with CSGO/DOTA2 skins because I don't want to give Steam any more money than they deserve after being banned multiple times for absurd reasons while the truly toxic elements of these forums can behave however they want and drive away new people.

[Xhoas]

No, bans are fair. You can see people that really deserve it around here...

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Shoas:

No, bans are fair. You can see people that really deserve it around here...

Good things come to those who wait, those who deserve a ban get them, those who do not remain unbanned or in the rare case of a mistake get them removed.

The biggest issue I see is the lag time between actions and bans sometimes, where the volunteer mods react faster steam moderators can be more inconsistent due to the ticket queue.

[The Commendatore]

Originally posted by Shoas:

No, bans are fair. You can see people that really deserve it around here...

Yup.

[cinedine]

Originally posted by The Commendatore:

And yet you're here. A testament to the opposite of what you claim will happen.

What did I claim? "Ultimately". And I don't even know how you'd take this out of context to apply to me. But given there is also a first part that you ignore: I did stop caring about Steam, but that's not thanks to your clique, mind you.
On the other hand, compare my forum activities from some time ago or before 2020 with what it is know.

And I can tell you right now that I will probably never stop using Steam. A ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of my games are locked behind it.
But hey, the important thing is you got your gottcha moment. Never let anything stop you from feeling awesome about it.

[The Commendatore]

Originally posted by cinedine:

What did I claim? "Ultimately". And I don't even know how you'd take this out of context to apply to me.

Who said anything about applying it to you? The only reason you excluded yourself from that statement is because it would ultimately contradict it.

Originally posted by cinedine:

But given there is also a first part that you ignore: I did stop caring about Steam, but that's not thanks to your clique, mind you.

Since you felt the need to call out I didn't address something I didn't deem worthy of addressing, here are your own words to answer it:

Originally posted by cinedine:

I am not interesting into a discussion about the rest. Certainly not when people have something to say about nearly every single sentence.

That aside, if you want to talk about cliques I suggest investing in a mirror.

Originally posted by cinedine:

On the other hand, compare my forum activities from some time ago or before 2020 with what it is know.

If you have something to show for a discussion, by all means link it. I'm not going to do that for you.

Originally posted by cinedine:

And I can tell you right now that I will probably never stop using Steam. A ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of my games are locked behind it.

Good for you, I guess?

Originally posted by cinedine:

But hey, the important thing is you got your gottcha moment. Never let anything stop you from feeling awesome about it.

I have no need of your passive-aggressive remarks.

[Sleepy Yoshi]

Originally posted by FOXDUDE69:

Originally posted by Rainbow Unicorn Magic:

you will notice several of these names are excessive instigators this was a test to identify all the users on steam community, the numbers are so low its really weird , actually less then .001% of steams population use this forum

The reason for that is simple. Toxic regulars often gang up on newcomers, these newcomers then immediately run away or comment on their behavior and then get banned, either way, they typically don't return.

And that's how the Hub for the most popular PC gaming platform is a place gamers want nothing to do with. No surprise there, considering how hostile this place is to gamers and their suggestions.

I would agree the reason for it is simple. There's very little reason to actually use the main Steam hub. Do toxic users have some effect? Possibly, but let's be real the percentage of users using these forums was always going to be insignificant. Hell, half the time I question wtf I'm even doing here. XD

[cinedine]

Originally posted by Sleepy Yoshi:

I would agree the reason for it is simple. There's very little reason to actually use the main Steam hub. Do toxic users have some effect? Possibly, but let's be real the percentage of users using these forums was always going to insignificant.

I feel like there used to be a lot more activity on them some years ago. Today it's mostly the same few topics beings rehashed and they are less about disscussion or exchange of opinions but either complains or problems that people want to get solved.
But I also got older.

Also forums in general are used less frequently with Reddit and Discord probably being the main venue for people today.

[I will execute you]

That is not the issue at hand where is it !!!!

[Frostbringer]

Originally posted by Psymon²:

the fault lies in the woefully inconsistent moderation.
which is of course a result of report abuse.

moderators do not actively visit threads, or investigate reported posts to establish context.
nor do support (mostly) when contesting a ban.

the result is, someone will get "trolled" and antagonised into retaliation, then banned, they'll see all the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ others get away with, then either return with a vengeance, or write the forums off as the dumpster fire they are.

therefore, getting a ban is more like doing someone a favour, letting them get away from the farce of so called "discussion".

the tools that the moderators have to utilise are archaic at best, and utterly misused at worst.

valve have no reason to care about these forums, because there's no return on any investment.

as such, all that's left is the fanbois, doing what fanbois do best.

the suggestion?
perform due diligence to ensure the ♥♥♥♥ stirring few aren't dominating the forums, and provide some genuinely helpful guidance instead of just vague and inconsistent reasoning that seems entirely at the whim of nobodies.

in fact, replace the whole forums with something that's not a outdated mess of barely 90s level technology.
and employ a proper team of moderation and support who care about keeping the forums how they're supposed to be:

"for everyone, new and advanced user alike" - literally on the front page of the forums
https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/

"please make sure you are being relevant, constructive, and polite" - literally at the top of the rules
https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/6862-8119-C23E-EA7B

I don’t agree.

Just using the OP as an example, they used to be quite prolific in their forum activity, with many discussions and suggestions on various topics.

Now, since their most recent ban they only post a single topic or response in a thread and never reply or post in that thread again.

It’s clear they have learned from their previous bans that their behavior had to improve or risk further or even a permanent ban.

While others in this current discussion still have learned from their numerous bans, at least the OP has.

[kitt]

Originally posted by SlowMango:

For most users, bans improve behavior because they do not want to get banned again. There will always be some where bans are not really a punishment and in turn, they will not correct their behavior repeating the same process.

But, for a majority, bans do correct behavior.

funny, isn't that how it works both ways?

I my last bans were for posting links to a steam forum topic (that then was a mistake), then for insulting a user that doesn't exist and never has.

So, instead of actually dealing with these ludacris bans they suspent my ability to contact them for 30 days while not answering simple questions.


Imagine admitting to false bans and then suspend the ability for a conversation because they don't wanna answer why mods are this way and what "argumentative/combative" is in regards to their rules.
Banning me for those things for only posting a link shows how crap the moderation and support is.. they didn't even bother to undo the ban they waited til my ban was expired (7 days) for admitting the mistakes.. literally worthless.

Why are they not willing to just answer a question to THEIR rules? shouldn't they be the ones who should reply happily with informations in regards to rules and guidelines?

no all they do is.. well nothing really..


incompetent.. and no support, you can't tell me when I'm allowed to give negative feedback, suck up it and do your job for a change.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Originally posted by kitt:

Originally posted by SlowMango:

For most users, bans improve behavior because they do not want to get banned again. There will always be some where bans are not really a punishment and in turn, they will not correct their behavior repeating the same process.

But, for a majority, bans do correct behavior.

funny, isn't that how it works both ways?

I my last bans were for posting links to a steam forum topic (that then was a mistake), then for insulting a user that doesn't exist and never has.

So, instead of actually dealing with these ludacris bans they suspent my ability to contact them for 30 days while not answering simple questions.


Imagine admitting to false bans and then suspend the ability for a conversation because they don't wanna answer why mods are this way and what "argumentative/combative" is in regards to their rules.
Banning me for those things for only posting a link shows how crap the moderation and support is.. they didn't even bother to undo the ban they waited til my ban was expired (7 days) for admitting the mistakes.. literally worthless.

Why are they not willing to just answer a question to THEIR rules? shouldn't they be the ones who should reply happily with informations in regards to rules and guidelines?

no all they do is.. well nothing really..


incompetent.. and no support, you can't tell me when I'm allowed to give negative feedback, suck up it and do your job for a change.

This is not what happened.

[❤ Sly Succubus ❤]

Originally posted by kitt:

Why are they not willing to just answer a question to THEIR rules? shouldn't they be the ones who should reply happily with informations in regards to rules and guidelines?

no all they do is.. well nothing really..

incompetent.. and no support, you can't tell me when I'm allowed to give negative feedback, suck up it and do your job for a change.

No website or forum has ever done this that I've been upon, I know why because at least a few years back one moderator told me why they don't give this awnser, because it provides trolls and those banned prior the basis of how to avoid getting banned again but gives them enough information how to skim the rules but not break them, they avoid this entirely because as the moderator bluntly said.

"A troll user who skims the rules yet does not break them is no different then a man who runs red lights only once its midnight because thats when they start blinking and let people go or stop, at that point their doing it to just be annoying, and alot of places were smart to not give these trolls and annoyances a means to be aggravating."


Further to the note
Bans indeed don't work
Temp-Bans indeed however do work, because unlike being actually banned you simply either keep in check or get longer and longer slaps in time out, if these were normal bans then you'd find those with alt accounts and smurfs far more then those that keep breaking rules

Hell we won't say it but its a blunt fact some people break the rules because they think its just funny to do so or because they just want to look cool, they still do it this very day and a good bit of us now and then see it happen, why would Steam tell those trolls anything? Just let them slink back under their bridges, Valve clearly is more aware on how to handle punishment then any of us are.