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Shh, Cailey we aren't supposed to discuss how there's a very real ideology advocating the forcible sterilization and killing of the disabled that has an over 200 year history in much of the world, and how as recently as 2022, countries here in the western world have passed legislation specifically allowing third parties to euthanize them against their will, regardless of the desires of the actually disabled people who's lives are being taken. Or the very real issues the physically and mentally disabled face in everything from blatant discrimination, harassment, or frequently just plain not having public spaces where people even think to design them so that people with with disabilities can use them.
Nope, they are just told to shut up and take a backseat while ressources can be used to improve everyone else's quality of life.
Because you obviously have and know it all and have all the facts. Gotcha.
@Tanoomba No, see, I never said anything about "should". I'm simply answering the question "Why hasn't this happened yet?"
It isn't happening because people like you want to curb it from happening with every excuse under the sun. You claim it's way too difficult, will eat way too much resources up, etc. No positive thinking on the matter. Only doom and gloom about how it will inconvenience Valve so, so much.
@Tanoomba There are less than 8 billion people on the planet. Are you suggesting over half of them are disabled in a way that requires UI changes for them to be able to use Steam?
I'll put things into perspective. 2.2 billion people around the world have a visual impairment. Around 2.8 million have MS. About 75 million around the world have autism. Around 5.4 million people have some or another form of paralysis. Approximately 18 million people around the world have cerebral palsy. There are more than 70 million deaf people worldwide.
I would go on more and provide a lot more statistics, but I believe I've made the point very clear. If you want to see more statistics, use a search engine. There are a lot more people who are permanently impaired from all walks of life than you want to acknowledge. Just because there are 8 billion people on this planet it doesn't change the reality of what is. PWDs exist, they are large in numbers and whether you like it or not, they deserve inclusion too. They don't deserve to be shoved to the wayside and ignored - which is pretty much exactly what you're trying to encourage here in this discussion.
@Tanoomba What ridiculous hyperbole. Obviously you just want to play the victim and pretend everyone around you is an unreasonable ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
Well, the only one really doing that here is you. I've been pretty reasonable and respectful about this entire subject. You saying I just want to play the victim card - you're only proving your disdain about accessibility inclusion in the video gaming world in general. This isn't about just me. This is for all PWDs. That would be selfish and I am not a selfish person. Do you tell the same thing to LGBTQAI+ people? Do you tell them they are playing victim too, or are you bias and selective about who you label as playing victim?
@Tanoomba Again (again), I actually AGREE that accessibility options would be great to have. I think it's very worth asking Valve to implement them. I believe, ideally, that accessibility options SHOULD be a part of Steam and all popular software. But you insist on portraying the lack of these options as the result of an ableist cabal working to exclude PWDs from being able to enjoy their lives, instead of the exponentially more reasonable explanation that UI design is pretty hard, actually.
On one hand you say accessibility should be a part of Steam, but then earlier you say asking for such things is playing victim. You said I'm playing victim. Seems your statements are conflicting and awfully hypocritical - to me anyway. That's just my opinion. You say I insist on portraying lack of options as ableism. Well, is that not what you're doing by being so abrasive toward me? One moment you're pro-accessibility, but then in the next, you're anti-accessibility by making excuses, saying it's too difficult for companies such as Valve, to implement because you know, Valve has no money and way too much going on to even remotely entertain the idea of accessibility support in Steam. It's way too hard. It eats up way too many resources that can be allocated to the majority of able people who are a higher priority than PWDs. You literally said it yourself. Not in those exact words, but the point was very, very clear.
Now going back to a prior comment you had made.
@Tanoomba Again, I think these accessibility options are a great idea and I hope that Steam does consider implementing them (if they aren't already). But it isn't a given that we are owed such features and saying "Why aren't they here yet?" instead of "I'd like to see them implemented" comes off as entitled.
You even went to such extents to say I was coming off as entitled. What do you want me to do? Grovel and beg like a worthless slave?
@cinedine Nope, they are just told to shut up and take a backseat while ressources can be used to improve everyone else's quality of life.
That is exactly how it is. The comments left by some people in this discussion proves that this is exactly what some people want. It's a case of, "Sit down, shut up and don't complain. Be happy with what you've got and keep quiet. You're an 'extreme minority' and not worth the wasted time or resources to make life a little easier for everybody with impairments." That's how they come across. One minute they're pro-accessibility and the next they're discriminating saying it's not worth the time or expense (resources) because it's more important that companies prioritise the fully able over the disabled.
The fact that PWDs have been referenced (in this discussion) as being 'an extreme minority' shows exactly what these individuals actually think of impaired persons. I guess the extreme minority are to be ignored, shoved to the side and disregarded until needed for something by the able peoples. Then it's OK to include the PWDs - so long as there's something to gain. Otherwise, supporting impaired people with accessibility is just a resource hog that could be better allocated to the features that support fully able people. To even say impaired people are an extreme minority is literally saying they are of the outermost importance - the last group that gets support.
Seems this is the case as Valve after 20 years still hasn't made steam more accessible to this extreme minority.
@cinedine Nope, they are just told to shut up and take a backseat while ressources can be used to improve everyone else's quality of life.
Precisely.
I know I chimed out because I don't want staged bans, but all this needed to be said. If I end up with a ban related to this discussion, then - so be it I guess. Sometimes it's better to stand and be vocal rather than sit down, shut up and be complacent. This is one of those times. I won't be belittled and shamed into silenced complacency.
I don't think you've said anything out of line here so I would hope not, but sometimes moderation decisions can be head-scratching.
Either way I do agree with what you've said. True, themed sales & events might be simpler to implement but that's an extremely low bar and some of the accessibility features you suggested in your original post should also be simple enough to implement. We just recently got a new client refresh currently in Beta, they are capable of creating newer/updated versions of clients and the things you ask for feel like a no-brain to be implemented and it's confusing why they haven't been after all this time.
I know my initial post was a little light and in hindsight calling it as "would be nice" was understating it, but I do actually think there's really no excuse these basic features haven't been added yet.
Not entirely sure why some users (Tanoomba especially) are being so dismissive of the suggestions. I think a lot of people got hooked on your mention of LGBTQ+ related events and sales and it's clear that it derailed the thread a little bit, but obviously that shouldn't be the point of the discussion.
All I know is Valve, after 20 years of business, not offering any kind of accessibility on Steam is a more than mind boggling. They are one of the biggest game corporations on the planet. You would think this all would eventually come to fruition after so many years, but to this day, there has been absolutely no buzz of bringing proper accessibility features, to Steam. Valve could pave the way for the future of accessible gaming, but ...
Do you know how many times I've seen anti-LGBT sentiment expressed by gamers? All the time. I've seen enough anger and hatred expressed at Gone Home for being positively received by critics to fill several books.
Sorry, this suggestion that the disabled are targeted by gamer hate campaigns on the same level as the LGBT community is absurd.
Surely there are standards, they just aren't enforced.
Another lie. I've said (several times now) that I AGREE that more accessibility options would be a good thing. I expressed support for bringing this to Valve's attention. I believe accessibility SHOULD be a part of UI design. All of that is positive.
I'm one of them. But I don't need a UI redesign to be able to use Steam. How many of those 2.2 billion are in the same boat as me?
And making video games accessible to all of those groups is a large and demanding undertaking, requiring specialized software and/or hardware requiring its own testing and troubleshooting.
I went a couple of weeks where I simply couldn't close a Steam chat box. Clicked on the little "X" and nothing happened.
Straw man. You're "playing the victim" when you dishonestly claim that I am contributing to the oppression of PWDs. There is nothing wrong with ASKING for anything. It's GOOD to ask.
See? This is incredibly disingenuous. Explaining to you the conditions behind big UI changes is NOT being "anti-accessibility" and the fact that you would choose to portray it that way is what I mean when I say you play the victim. If someone doesn't agree with your stance (or, heck, just how you choose to express it), then you need to believe you are being oppressed by them. It's an incredibly unproductive way to discuss anything.
Have you not seen how much difficulty they're having with basic functionality? Why do you think highly specialized accessibility would come easier?
WOW, that's some powerful hyperbole. I mean, in the very quote you obviously read at least twice, I gave you an example: "I'd like to see these features implemented." Other options include "It would be greatly appreciated" or "I'm sure this would add to the quality of life of many people who often feel excluded". The fact that you apparently can't see any options between "angry, entitled rant" and "grovelling and begging like a worthless slave" demonstrates that you obviously WANT to be angry instead of work towards an actual goal.
Again, you're making up my stance just to take offense at what you made up.
At this point, your arguments are primarily straw men.
But sure, I must just hate disabled people or something. It's not frustrating to have somebody lie repeatedly about me at all.
No, not PWDs. People that require UI redesigns in order to be able to use Steam. There's a significant difference there.
See what I mean about the victim complex?
Oh, come on.
"Oh, oopsie-gee! I hope my standing up for the rights of the disabled doesn't get me banned by this oppressive group of hateful bigots! Surely it wouldn't be my insistence on lying and villainizing others in order to stoke conflict and justify outrage! After all, there is no other possible way I can express my desire for positive change!"
Not directly no, but in a very round about way it has been implied. I'm not the only person here to observe it.
It can be said in other ways:
"Stop whining."
"You're making this all about you."
"Be thankful you're not [insert comparison here]."
"Who cares?"
"It's too expensive."
"There are more important things."
etc...
All said for the express reason of trying to make the person go away so the inconvenience of their presence doesn't bother the "normal" people. What it boils down to is if an issue doesn't affect a person directly, or doesn't affect causes that person cares about, then often times said person will attack the issue to make sure it doesn't compete with their own concerns. People do this all the time. Some of it is subconscious, some of it is deliberate. It's called "stealing your thunder."
I'll provide a real-world example of this. A movement was spawned out of some very bad events, with the catchy name "Black Lives Matter". It was named for a sentiment nobody really should disagree with. Some people took that a step further and said "All Lives Matter", to which the people who founded the original movement were incensed and immediately condemned this sentiment as racist. Why? Not because the phrase is intrinsically wrong. Not because the sentiment was bad. It was because the new phrase took the focus away from what the founders of Black Lives Matter were about.
Again, this is just a recent real-world example of how people can disagree with a sentiment that is correct in principle simply because of competing interests. Unfortunately that same psychology plays into real-world struggles where resources are concerned, which leads right back to where we are and what I've heard before: Money can be spent better elsewhere to benefit the majority. It is a form of soft discrimination.