Possible method of validating achievements.

[Jasspur]

It's come to my attention that several websites use a steam sign in to display valid Steam achievements. Some exmaples are Astats and TrueSteamAchievements. With the past issues experience by third parties like "Steam Achievement Manager (SAM for short), it makes this particular feature feel like less of an achievement. I would like to suggest working with the people behind these websites to potentially validate all achievements on steam. It won't curb in game hacking to get achievements, but it will slow down a massive achievement dump that hurts those of us who like prove our reward; especially if we are trusted to write guides. I am at your disposal for any needs or questions to improve Steam, SteamOS, the SteamDeck and all things related. I hope I can be of assistance.

[MadBone12]

Valve has stated more than once that they have no intention of stopping people from using SAM or other methods to cheat their achievements.

In addition, I fail to see how people cheating their achievements affects you in any way. If you still got yours legitimately, what do you care if other people are cheating? It doesn't hurt you in any way.

[Start_Running]

ANd here's the question. WHat makes you think those sites are accurate in their assessment?

[Gwarsbane]

Originally posted by Jasspur:

It's come to my attention that several websites use a steam sign in to display valid Steam achievements. Some exmaples are Astats and TrueSteamAchievements. With the past issues experience by third parties like "Steam Achievement Manager (SAM for short), it makes this particular feature feel like less of an achievement. I would like to suggest working with the people behind these websites to potentially validate all achievements on steam. It won't curb in game hacking to get achievements, but it will slow down a massive achievement dump that hurts those of us who like prove our reward; especially if we are trusted to write guides. I am at your disposal for any needs or questions to improve Steam, SteamOS, the SteamDeck and all things related. I hope I can be of assistance.

If Valve can't validate the achievements on their own, what makes you think some 3rd party sight that doesn't have access to Valves backend can?

Do you even know how SAM works? It uses the same calls as games use. The only time those 3rd party sites can tell SAM was used is when all the achievements have the same time stamp, or a large chunk do.

But even that is not fool proof because there are a number of games that will give you a bunch of achievements when you start the game up or when you close it down. Payday 2 is a game that will give you a bunch of achievements when you start up a game after they have done a major update that includes a bunch of new achievements. They did one update a while back and when I started the game, I got something like 15 or 20 new achievements based on stuff I had already done in the game that they were keeping track of before hand.

And again there are some games that don't give you the achievements till you close it down, then they popup in Steam.

So no, Valve doesn't need to work with these websites to validate achievements because those websites are not validating achievements.

[blunus]

Not to mention that if you set Steam on offline mode and play games to earn some achievements but not unlocking because Steam doesn't sync out. When you go back online, all achievements you get unlocked at the exact date and time, acting like SAM.

It's not like some websites looked at inaccurate timestamps first, that's just laughable. Websites can make mistakes all time.

[BJWyler]

Let's ignore the fact that SAM isn't as widespread an issue as some people would like to make it out to be, otherwise, there would be a lot more achievement completion out there.

As a reminder, there are a myriad of ways that achievements can be obtained other than just the use of SAM:
-Have a friend or family member help or complete the achievement for you.
-Edit the game files.
-Use someone else's game save file.
-Use a dev console or cheat codes.
-Take advantage of in game mechanics or features to bypass the "normal" route.
-Exploit bugs.
-Mods - either external or from the Steam Workshop
-Multi-boxing
-Win Trading
-Achievement servers
-Steam User Console

Valve has given developers the tools they need to secure achievements for their game by making them server side. Very few do this however, because it comes with its own problems and potential issues. And as others have mentioned, there is really no definitive way to tell if any particular achievement has been cheated.

Perhaps people should worry less about how other people enjoy the games that they paid for, and the achievements that go along with them, and focus on their own gameplay and accomplishments. You see OP, you have provided a solution for your issue without involving Steam at all. There are plenty of third party sites out there for achievement hunters to pound their chest and brag all they want to the void. You can readily make use of any one, or multiples, of them.

[Nx Machina]

Your profile has to be PUBLIC for those sites to see achievements.

Secondly as for "that hurts those of us who like prove our reward" - achievements are personal to "you". For others they are a worthless metric.

[Supafly]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

Your profile has to be PUBLIC for those sites to see achievements.

Secondly as for "that hurts those of us who like prove our reward" - achievements are personal to "you". For others they are a worthless metric.

Completely agree. I couldn't care less what others have. I won't cheat mine because that wouldn't be me achieving them and I'd know, which is all that matters

[Psymon²]

Originally posted by MadBone12:

Valve has stated more than once that they have no intention of stopping people from using SAM or other methods to cheat their achievements.

requesting source?
searching doesn't turn up much other than SAM itself, not seeing comments from valve relating to it.
help us out?

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Originally posted by Psymon²:

Originally posted by MadBone12:

Valve has stated more than once that they have no intention of stopping people from using SAM or other methods to cheat their achievements.

requesting source?
searching doesn't turn up much other than SAM itself, not seeing comments from valve relating to it.
help us out?

Oldie. Alden Kroll (a Valve employee) and SAM...

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/AStats#announcements/detail/687197541732549159

[Psymon²]

Originally posted by cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Originally posted by Psymon²:

requesting source?
searching doesn't turn up much other than SAM itself, not seeing comments from valve relating to it.
help us out?

Oldie. Alden Kroll (a Valve employee) and SAM...

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/AStats#announcements/detail/687197541732549159

:qr:

ta very much

so that's "once"...
anything for the "more than once" claim 😅

[Jasspur]

I should have done a thesis on human behavior being the real social state of the world without consequence. Seriously though, achievements were designed to be just that; an achievement. It's something that either needs fixed or scrapped entirely. These sites do make claims of banning illegitamate cheats. I do not wish to go above them and discredit their actions although I know it's difficult. There is a solution for the most part. In fact, Microsoft is currently using it. Their platform on pc is encrypted (dual layer if I'm not mistaking). Valve could simply ditch achievements for this platform and make it available for the modding community while creating an encrypted replica. My personal use of achievements is a collection that I don't like de-valued; not for competition. I just find it upsetting to see something linger for so long that isn't working on the pc platform. The post above showing a discussion with a valve member is not 1st hand information. It is possible that it's fake unless proven further. This is a time for Valve to tie up it's lose ends, because competitors are coming to split the entire pc gaming community. I would wite the entire system in blockchain if it would stop cheating online. It's better than shelling out the high cost for anti-cheat that eventually dissolves and hogs resources. I expect Sony to created an encrypted enviroment on pc soon, and Epic is attempting to give people larger libraries and steam to hook them there as well as exclusives. They could pull a nasty move considering the Unreal Engine is responsible for just about all major AAA titles as of late. Micosoft could just as easy block Steam on Windows or make it difficul for those who aren't tech savvy by banning it from their store and forcing a move to Windows 11. Windows 12 may even be rent only like office, so it's a good time to prepare. I would like to remind everyoneto please be calm, respectful and maintain faith in humanity.

[Supafly]

Originally posted by Jasspur:

I should have done a thesis on human behavior being the real social state of the world without consequence. Seriously though, achievements were designed to be just that; an achievement. It's something that either needs fixed or scrapped entirely. These sites do make claims of banning illegitamate cheats. I do not wish to go above them and discredit their actions although I know it's difficult. There is a solution for the most part. In fact, Microsoft is currently using it. Their platform on pc is encrypted (dual layer if I'm not mistaking). Valve could simply ditch achievements for this platform and make it available for the modding community while creating an encrypted replica. My personal use of achievements is a collection that I don't like de-valued; not for competition. I just find it upsetting to see something linger for so long that isn't working on the pc platform. The post above showing a discussion with a valve member is not 1st hand information. It is possible that it's fake unless proven further. This is a time for Valve to tie up it's lose ends, because competitors are coming to split the entire pc gaming community. I would wite the entire system in blockchain if it would stop cheating online. It's better than shelling out the high cost for anti-cheat that eventually dissolves and hogs resources. I expect Sony to created an encrypted enviroment on pc soon, and Epic is attempting to give people larger libraries and steam to hook them there as well as exclusives. They could pull a nasty move considering the Unreal Engine is responsible for just about all major AAA titles as of late. Micosoft could just as easy block Steam on Windows or make it difficul for those who aren't tech savvy by banning it from their store and forcing a move to Windows 11. Windows 12 may even be rent only like office, so it's a good time to prepare. I would like to remind everyoneto please be calm, respectful and maintain faith in humanity.

Should have learnt what a paragraph is.

Achievements are primarily for the user and their account. Why would someone need something to verify they actually achieved them? They'd know. The only thing is to prove/disprove whether you gained them or cheated them to others.

Others are better? Try playing games that have scores along with times. Batman games come to mind, I remember looking at leader boards for some of the challenges. Top 10+ all completed in less than a second. Impossible without cheating when enemies are round corners, and animation for taking out 1 takes longer.

Leader boards are NOT on Valves servers.

The only important thing about achievements that matters is your own and you don't need anything else to confirm if you cheated them or gained them without. It doesn't matter if someone else cheats them or not.

EDIT: Oh and Office is NOT rent/subscription only. While MS pushes it's Subscription you can still BUY it for use without ever requiring a subscription

[Jasspur]

Originally posted by Supafly:

Originally posted by Jasspur:

I should have done a thesis on human behavior being the real social state of the world without consequence. Seriously though, achievements were designed to be just that; an achievement. It's something that either needs fixed or scrapped entirely. These sites do make claims of banning illegitamate cheats. I do not wish to go above them and discredit their actions although I know it's difficult. There is a solution for the most part. In fact, Microsoft is currently using it. Their platform on pc is encrypted (dual layer if I'm not mistaking). Valve could simply ditch achievements for this platform and make it available for the modding community while creating an encrypted replica. My personal use of achievements is a collection that I don't like de-valued; not for competition. I just find it upsetting to see something linger for so long that isn't working on the pc platform. The post above showing a discussion with a valve member is not 1st hand information. It is possible that it's fake unless proven further. This is a time for Valve to tie up it's lose ends, because competitors are coming to split the entire pc gaming community. I would wite the entire system in blockchain if it would stop cheating online. It's better than shelling out the high cost for anti-cheat that eventually dissolves and hogs resources. I expect Sony to created an encrypted enviroment on pc soon, and Epic is attempting to give people larger libraries and steam to hook them there as well as exclusives. They could pull a nasty move considering the Unreal Engine is responsible for just about all major AAA titles as of late. Micosoft could just as easy block Steam on Windows or make it difficul for those who aren't tech savvy by banning it from their store and forcing a move to Windows 11. Windows 12 may even be rent only like office, so it's a good time to prepare. I would like to remind everyoneto please be calm, respectful and maintain faith in humanity.

Should have learnt what a paragraph is.

Achievements are primarily for the user and their account. Why would someone need something to verify they actually achieved them? They'd know. The only thing is to prove/disprove whether you gained them or cheated them to others.

Others are better? Try playing games that have scores along with times. Batman games come to mind, I remember looking at leader boards for some of the challenges. Top 10+ all completed in less than a second. Impossible without cheating when enemies are round corners, and animation for taking out 1 takes longer.

Leader boards are NOT on Valves servers.

The only important thing about achievements that matters is your own and you don't need anything else to confirm if you cheated them or gained them without. It doesn't matter if someone else cheats them or not.

I left my message as a huge block on purpose, because I knew someone would further attest that mankind (especially the United States) is failing fast. It's learn to work together or get left behind. If achievements were menat for the players private recognition, they would not have display cases available on steam. That was not the original intent of their design. Had it been, they would have called them "Milestones" or something similar. Now let's not go down this hateful path. I actually work as a teacher and have taught language many times. We all avoid grammar/format when we're in informal situations.

Grow together, love one another, and make a better world.

[Supafly]

Originally posted by Jasspur:

Originally posted by Supafly:

Should have learnt what a paragraph is.

Achievements are primarily for the user and their account. Why would someone need something to verify they actually achieved them? They'd know. The only thing is to prove/disprove whether you gained them or cheated them to others.

Others are better? Try playing games that have scores along with times. Batman games come to mind, I remember looking at leader boards for some of the challenges. Top 10+ all completed in less than a second. Impossible without cheating when enemies are round corners, and animation for taking out 1 takes longer.

Leader boards are NOT on Valves servers.

The only important thing about achievements that matters is your own and you don't need anything else to confirm if you cheated them or gained them without. It doesn't matter if someone else cheats them or not.

I left my message as a huge block on purpose, because I knew someone would further attest that mankind (especially the United States) is failing fast. It's learn to work together or get left behind. If achievements were menat for the players private recognition, they would not have display cases available on steam. That was not the original intent of their design. Had it been, they would have called them "Milestones" or something similar. Now let's not go down this hateful path. I actually work as a teacher and have taught language many times. We all avoid grammar/format when we're in informal situations.

Grow together, love one another, and make a better world.

Primarily = main reason is for the user. If they won't to show them of that's fine but that does NOT mean that is the main reason for them. Might ignore that stuff but that does NOT mean every teacher does. My mother is a Teacher and she is forever commenting when I make grammatical errors. Your wall of text was not just poor grammar but also horrible to read. I had to copy it in order to manually add paragraphs so it was easier to read. Not adding a paragraph or 2 was just lazy and FYI I don't believe you teach as I find it hard to imagine a teacher would write like that and then have the nerve to say they teach. If you do teach you clearly aren't a good English teacher. Was going to bloat this just to make a wall of text but I can't be bothered...

[BJWyler]

Originally posted by Jasspur:

achievements were designed to be just that; an achievement. It's something that either needs fixed or scrapped entirely.

And that's what they are when someone chooses to complete an achievement. Nothing changes and there is nothing that needs to be fixed. Anything else beyond the personal satisfaction of obtaining that achievement is on that individual.

Originally posted by Jasspur:

These sites do make claims of banning illegitamate cheats. I do not wish to go above them and discredit their actions although I know it's difficult.

They ban people from continuing to use the site that every person voluntarily signed up to be a part of. That is their right. They violated the rules they agreed to when they signed up for the site. People who don't sign up for the site don't agree to those rules, and certainly don't agree (nor do they have to) with your viewpoint on achievements. Therefore they are free to do what they will with their own achievements.

Originally posted by Jasspur:

There is a solution for the most part.

Yes there is. It's called minding your own business. What someone else does with their own achievements has no bearing on you or yours. No one should be forced to accept your viewpoint on achievements as the de facto standard, because it is not. Achievements are a personal goal and accomplishment.

Originally posted by Jasspur:

My personal use of achievements is a collection that I don't like de-valued; not for competition.

Did you cheat to obtain them? If not, then they are not devalued in any way. If you perceive them to be, then that is an issue with your perception and not an issue with how anyone else obtained any of their own achievements.

Originally posted by Jasspur:

I just find it upsetting to see something linger for so long that isn't working on the pc platform.

I find it upsetting that people still, to this day, insist on telling other people how they should enjoy playing a game and everything else that goes along with it. Gaming is a subjective experience. Everyone will enjoy it in a different way. Accept that fact and stop trying to force people to play the way you want to play.

Originally posted by Jasspur:

The post above showing a discussion with a valve member is not 1st hand information. It is possible that it's fake unless proven further.

It is first hand information. It is an interview conducted between a verified member of the Valve team and a known and popular achievement hunter group on Steam. Whether you want to believe in its veracity or not is irrelevant. It has been taken as the de facto answer by Valve on the state of achievements by the community.

Originally posted by Jasspur:

This is a time for Valve to tie up it's lose ends, because competitors are coming to split the entire pc gaming community. I would wite the entire system in blockchain if it would stop cheating online.

And here we have it. Blockchain isn't the magical panacea that all the crypto bros want to you believe. Don't fall for the scams. There are no loose ends to tie up. If someone wants to cheat in their single-player games and the achievements that go along with them, then that is absolutely 100% their right and prerogative. They paid for the game, and they have every right to enjoy it the way they want.

Originally posted by Jasspur:

It's better than shelling out the high cost for anti-cheat that eventually dissolves and hogs resources.

No it's not, and everything else is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Originally posted by Jasspur:

If achievements were menat for the players private recognition, they would not have display cases available on steam. That was not the original intent of their design.

Incorrect. Achievements were created as a way for developers to increase and continue engagement with their game. It was a way to pad play time. It was a way to keep the player interested in the title until the next bit of content or game the developer wanted to sell was ready for market. Nothing more nothing less. There is no inherent social or competitive element to achievements. Anything that makes them so is done by people who wish to make them social and competitive, which is their prerogative. However, that doesn't mean anyone else has to buy into that notion.