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Still a ridiculous false equivalence.
Again, you have to choose to interpret a jester that way, the meaning is not inherent in the award.
And you dramatically misunderstand what coulrophobia is if you think that award is going to trigger anyone's fear.
Heck if your worried about coulrophobia then you should also be worried about Monokerophobia as well....
If steam removed everything based on potential phobia's we'd have nothing left and that would trigger Nihiliphobia. Then again worrying over what people are afraid of could also trigger Phobophobia
How can you say that one is an insult and has been established as one and you do not need to "choose to see it [as an] offensive term" while at the same time you say you cannot be offended unless you chose to do so? Do you see the contradiction? Do you see the arbitrary distinstiction you make to please yourself and convince yourself that you are not doing anything wrong?
How can somebody feel offended by some cute cartoon drawings[en.wikipedia.org]?
Or do you really believe that one being racist and one happening on a gaming forum makes it different enough to not be an insult?
You could also simply accept that it is an insult and you do insult people using it. It's okay. Nobody is perfect, we all do at times. Sometimes involuntary, sometimes deliberately. The important part is being honest about what we do. And denying you do something by telling them they are at fault for feeling offended by your words is a behaviour I would label as "arsehole-y".
His argument is akin to him saying that anime avatars are supposedly racist.
It's an image that can be shown or given to others, which you can pass prejudice & make stereotypes about...
Except the jester doesn't even really have a strong ethnic background associated with it like say anime which is clearly associated with the Japanese.
Well, that's not what this topic is about, and I think there's several people who have already agreed about that, though, I don't feel like making a stack of links about this right now.
If a moderator comes in here and locks the topic with this given reason :
...if this topic gets locked with that reason while you're making that argument, then we'll know that it was because of that argument, because that doesn't have to do with what this topic is about.
...and you can't argue with the moderators (no really, you can't... they always make sure that they get the last word and ONLY the last word by locking topics that they post in.
Back to the original topic:
The only times it's a choice to offend someone is when you use literal insulting words or racial slurs, since you brought up the n-word. It's impossible to determine how a random user will react to receiving a Jester award. To imply the user who chooses to give them the award is doing so purely to insult them is disingenuous.
In another thread, a user mentioned they give Jester awards to people who write comments they find funny and they want the recipient to receive more points than the Hilarious counterpart.
There is no contradiction You're pushing the narrative that awarding someone a clown award or calling someone a clown is the same as calling someone the n-word. It's not and they're not comparable.
The only real way someone could use the awards negatively would also put their own account at risk. Send a bunch of awards to another user and request a refund to then subtract that amount, which would likely get flagged by the refund policy. Nobody's going through all that just to mess with another user.
The issue (it's not really an issue, but I'll run with it for the sake of it) is superficial. It lies with the recipient which is something neither Steam or other users have any control over.
If they felt it was such an insult for use against people they don't like, they could give me as many as they want so I can get more optional profile stuff.
It's a harmless award that just gives digital points towards an optional shop for cosmetic things, people just want to argue against anyone or anything they don't personally like for manufactured illogical reasons.
Can you elaborate on what ethnic group has a history of clown based racism and derogatory stereotypes?
Your making nonsensical arguments to try to justify inane claims comparing an innocent symbol, with racist and ethnic stereotypes.
I mean is the Jester's cafe insulting everyone who eats there? - https://jesterscafe.com/
Does Patches family restaurant insult every person who eats there? https://patchesrestaurant.com/
Do you have something again Clown's Pancake house? https://www.grubhub.com/restaurant/clowns-pancake-house-5804-s-western-ave-chicago/3097634
I mean clowns are used all the time and its not insulting, so clearly plenty of people don't find the association with clowns to be insulting, they find it to be nostalgic, funny, etc.
Several people who usually disagree with each other have come together and agreed today.
Yes they are. Both are insults.
Both can also be used in a non-insulting manner. And it's not only on the recipient to define that but also on the sender how they intend it and the context it is given in.
Seriously, what is there to argue about? When an entirely unfunny post about a serious issue recieves jesters, there is very little room for interpretation of why.
Excusing this with "but look over there, this post also got a jester award and I think it is genuinely funny" is gaslighting at best. Saying "oh you can't know the intend" is utter ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Saying "offense is taken" is simply disingenuous.
I'd say it's absolutely baffling that people argue about it, but seeing "who" does the arguing and where it is happening, I can't say it is very surprising.
Putting the onus onto the victim for feeling victimised while pretending to never doing anything wrong is sadly common for quite some folk around here.
And yes, Valve/Steam can do a lot about it. They knew perfectly well what the "funny" option on reviews has become. Providing the same option to a forum that is well known for its toxicity problem while providing anonymity to the ones who do was a remarkable bad idea with a foreseeable outcome that shows either the level of care Valve puts into this community or their utter disconnect from it.
And no amount of "free points" can sweeten the deal. Especially not for people who don't give a ♥♥♥♥ about them.
So I guess you can't back up your inane claims that a jester is equivalent to calling some a racist word.... That is what I thought. You got your answer, your free to not like it but as shown clowns and jesters are used all over the place and funny enough people have no issue with them.
If you and others want to assign a negative aspect to them and ignore that other people don't its your right, but it doesn't re-write reality to make your claims that its akin to calling people racist stereotypes true.
ANYTHING can be an insult, if people want to view it as such, it doesn't mean you remove it because someone somewhere might get offended by it
So I can call someone the N-word in a non-insulting manner now. That's interesting because we're talking about calling other people specific words. Not the word itself.
What even are you trying to say here. It's gibberish. It's up to the recipient how they react to it, regardless of why it was awarded.
Then why are you in this thread? Even in a previous comment you state the discussion is plain ridiculous. So why are you engaging in a conversation you clearly have no interest in being in? As for your example, it's vague enough to work against your narrative.
Please look up what gaslighting is. And no, to imply I (or someone else) can know the intent if I were to receive a Jester is an utter lie.
I'm not the one who said offensive is taken, but I do agree with it in the context of something as trivial as an award.
So I'll ask again: Then why are you in this thread? You went into this thread knowing who were active in it and still choose to be obtuse with the predisposition that you're right and everybody else is wrong just because. If you cannot enter and engage others in good faith you should just refrain from speaking.
And if you're going to come in here and say stuff like "these type of people" in an attempt to steer the conversation into a different direction again, you really shouldn't because it just comes across as being incapable of maintaining composure.
The only thing Valve can do is either remove the system or add an opt-in feature. So you either get them or you don't get them at all. No in-between. And neither of those things will happen.
And would you have said the same thing about Valve if the "funny option" was not the Jester but another instead?
I did not expect any less from him based on past behaviour.
Edit: Sorry for the wall of text. It looked much smaller when I was writing it on my phone.
If I give you a gift-card to GameStop then I'm not calling you a GameStop or game stopper.
If I get you a Nintendo e-shop card with Bowser's picture on it, then I'm not calling you literally Bowser.
So how come I, who have way more Jesters than the majority of the people who complain about them (and would therefore arguably have more reason to be against them), argue against getting rid of them? Because I made a choice not to be offended by them. I made a choice not to allow trolls to dictate the rules of the game. I made a choice not to give them the power to decide what I should be upset about. I made a choice to see their lazy attempts to rile me up as the pathetic and impotent gestures they are.
So no, saying "offense is taken" is not disingenuous. I'm practising what I preach. I'm not suggesting some theoretical mind-transplant with no practical real-world application, I'm telling you this solution works because it works.
I actually have been convinced that Valve can and should do something about it. They should give people the option to make awards invisible. It wouldn't affect what awards they receive or what awards other people are able to give, but it would prevent them from seeing symbols that offend them. Everybody wins.