Better Refund Policy: 2 Hours = No Refund?

[Whooplaah]

Steam has a policy that games with more than 2 hours of play will not be refunded. They say that they will consider refunds outside of this, but have denied every request I ever placed and I've never met anyone who got any sort of refund.

The problem with this policy is that 2 hours of gameplay means nothing.

Some games have loading screens - that counts as 'hours played.'

Some games have launcher windows that are separate from the actual game. So it is posible to close the game but still have the launcher running - that's 'hours played.'

Some games have server software. Having the server running for other people is 'hours played.'

Some games are only 5 hours long, and the policy covers nearly 50% of the game. Others are hundreds of hours long, and the policy doesn't cover even 1%.

Some games require that you update through their launcher. While the game is downloading, installing, or updating it counts as 'hours played.'

Some games are turn-based multi-player and will have a lot of down time while you wait for your turn. While you wait, this is 'hours played.'

Some times you simply leave a game on over night. That is 'hours played.'

Some games have show-stopping bugs, but it may take a while for a player to get to them. Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic had a bug where a save file would currupt when changing rooms on the final stage - the game could not be completed, but you didn't find out until right at the end.

Some games get patches and updates - particularly 'Early Access' games. The patches and updates may cause bugs, crashes, or even change whether a computer can even run the game at all. Having played 2 hours in Early Access only to find out that your computer can't run the 1.0 release version shouldn't disqualify you from a refund.

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A better policy would be "percent of game completed." Developers will know roughly how many game play hours their final product contains - I say measuring against that would be better than an arbitrary number. It still isn't perfect, but better.

What do you think? What would a better policy be? Have you ever been denied a refund because of hourse played? Have you ever received a refund at all?

[Pheace]

If you leave your game running overnight/at menu/launcher running etc, those are your own problems. Granted the launcher thing can be annoying for people not aware but it's something that people will have to get used to. There's no other way for Steam to be aware of how long you have played, and if they make exceptions for that, everyone will be using it as an excuse, whether it's true or not.

Showstopping bugs can be an argument, if a game is really fundamentally broken. That said, bugs are to be expected in any software, it would really seriously have to be broken, not a chance to be broken or buggy etc.

As for Early Access. That's not a good excuse at all. Don't buy Early Access if bugs/crashes/performance changes are going to make you want a refund. They make it exceedingly clear the game isn't done yet and *will* change.

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Percentage complete will just have developers put production bias on the first xx% of a game and doesn't change anything to your argument that something might be wrong later on in the game, assuming the games even have a way of having some kind of progress meter to begin with.

Yes I've received refunds, but I always make sure to refund before the 2h mark passes.

[FFL2and3rocks]

2 hours is fine in most cases because you aren't supposed to use refunds as a way to get a free demo of the game. It's mainly to protect you in case your computer isn't powerful enough to run it, or the game just isn't what you thought it was.

Maybe they can give publishers the option of increasing it from 2 hours to something higher, but I doubt many would be willing to do that.

[SpunkyJones]

It's for ensuring that your PC can run the game, refunds are not for demoing games.

[Satoru]

http://steamcommunity.com/app/290080/discussions/4/357286663677770821/

I bought the game more than a year ago

SO magically you now want the refund policy to be not only less than 2 hours of gameplay but OVER ONE YEAR SINCE PURCHASE

, but Steam refused to refund me because I had 10 hours of play.

This sounds NOT like any of the bizarro land examples you gave above

So you want the refund policy to magicaly cover literally NOTHING of what you said above but:

WAAAH I PLAYED 10 HOURS IN A GAME THAT I BOUGHT A YEAR AGO GIMME A REFUND

Nice deflection of the 'actual' problem which is STeam isn't giving you a refund for a game you put 10 hours of NOT idling/launch/screen/early acces/etc problems AND you bought OVER A YEAR AGO.

[The Giving One]

Originally posted by Whooplaah:

Steam has a policy that games with more than 2 hours of play will not be refunded. They say that they will consider refunds outside of this,

Exactly, as you posted above, it says "consider". So according to you, they have considered it.

That is it.

2 hours is plenty of time and if people keep pushing on this like we keep seeing they often do, I predict we will go back to the not-so-old ways of having no refunds at all...playtime and time owned meaning nothing at all anymore.

Would you perhaps prefer that instead ? The policy is much better than many other places...forgiving in fact.

Thing is, they once considered going back several months (6 if my memory serves me right) on requests for time owned as long as the 2 hour playtime limit was not breached.

Guess what ? They became more strict with the policy because just like with many good things, it took people to mess it up.

The refund policy we have now is a good thing. I totally disagree. Leave it at 2 hours AND REMOVE that rediculous statement about "but even if you fall outside of the refund rules we’ve described, you can ask for a refund anyway and we’ll take a look." I personally want to see that go away and the limit be 2 hours exactly. I don't think that will happen but I wish it could.

Originally posted by Whooplaah:

Some times you simply leave a game on over night. That is 'hours played.'

And that would be the user's fault for doing that. How are they supposed to know the difference ? Just because someone told them they left it running overnight ? They go by what can be verified, not what can be made up by people that will be dishonest just to get a refund.

[Exiled Alchemist]

Funny how no one has figured out that you can bypass the two hour playtime limit. You just can't go over the 14 day limit on refunds.

It's really simple start the game after installing it. After the game loads shut the game down then close the steam client. Disconnect the computer from the internet connection, and start up Steam in offline mode. Now Steam can't track the playtime of the game so you are free to play it for under 14 days.

This won't work for always online and multiplayer only games. All other games should work fine by doing this. Personally I only own one title that I wish I could refund but I know I'm way over the time limit both playtime and days owned. So instead of complaining about it I just accept it and moved on.

[Narcoleptic Marshmallow]

Recently I got a refund for a game I purchased three weeks prior. I have heard of people who got refunds on games they played for up to 8 hours. The trick is to actually have a reason to ask for a refund, and not use the system as a means to make some extra cash out of games you don't play anymore.

Originally posted by ExiledAlchemist:

Funny how no one has figured out that you can bypass the two hour playtime limit. You just can't go over the 14 day limit on refunds.

It's really simple start the game after installing it. After the game loads shut the game down then close the steam client. Disconnect the computer from the internet connection, and start up Steam in offline mode. Now Steam can't track the playtime of the game so you are free to play it for under 14 days.

This won't work for always online and multiplayer only games. All other games should work fine by doing this. Personally I only own one title that I wish I could refund but I know I'm way over the time limit both playtime and days owned. So instead of complaining about it I just accept it and moved on.

I'm quite sure a lot of people know that playing in offline mode doesn't add hours to your played time. Just, it makes zero sense to go out of your way to keep playing a game you're going to refund anyway.

[Exiled Alchemist]

Originally posted by Eri:

I'm quite sure a lot of people know that playing in offline mode doesn't add hours to your played time. Just, it makes zero sense to go out of your way to keep playing a game you're going to refund anyway.

It's mostly a tip for those that tend to play older titles that may need a third party patch or mods to make the game fully functional. Depending on many variables owners of that game may have to start and stop the game many times before getting everything set up before they can actually test the game out. Sure some people are not as dedicated and will just refund instantly. Others are that dedicated to at least get the game running just to see if the gameplay is well worth it. If it's not then they just wasted more then the allowed time and may not get the refund.

EDIT: Forgot to note an example of this. New Fallout 3 players have been seen to be this dedicated in trying to get the game running on modern systems.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Originally posted by Zetikla:

Its this or no refunds at all, you can choose.

Some people seems to be living in an imaginary land if they think that devs and publishers would be okay if the refund period was extended, especially since the sky is the only limit.

No, it's not "this or no refunds at all". There's nothing magical about this specific policy configuration, it isn't the solution to some "what's the correct approach to refunds" equation. As with most other decisions, this isn't about correct/incorrect or possible/impossible dichotomies, it's a whole spectrum of tradeoffs. Devs and pubs are "okay" after the infinity-percent increase from zero to two hours; the wheels aren't suddenly going to fall off at two hours and one minute.

[The End]

Originally posted by Whooplaah:

Steam has a policy that games with more than 2 hours of play will not be refunded.

Be happy there is a refund (no questions asked), Valve could have done as GOG and other gameplatforms, once you have downloaded you game, there will be no refund, unless the game is broken beyond repair/fixing.

2 Hours and less than 2 weeks, is more than enough to figure if the game will run on your HW.

[Gus the Crocodile]

Edit: quick note to avoid confusion: this was addressed to a post of Zet's which has been deleted, not to you, Rockon.

Assuming that you are in fact trying to redirect Rockon's words at me in lieu of your own...first of all, please don't tell me how to feel. Secondly, please note that my earlier post was not a complaint about the refund system, it was an objection to the irrational nature of your post, nothing more. There is no reason to tell me to be happy there's a refund, as I haven't indicated I'm not.

[GUldukat]

steam refund policy does suck.I got bad experience to when i tried to refund a game on the same night they do not read reason why your trying to refund the game. Zetikla you work for steam you should lol. All other places that sell games online give refunds on games just as steam says they do. I know one thing last game i buy on steam i got no support from steam when i needed it. There is no one to call just some automatized email saying sorry there policy is right.

Steam does have horrible customer service no matter what rockon steam lover wants to say dont except them to the help you buy other places.

[«Gғм» Kid Of The Century]

Originally posted by ExiledAlchemist:

It's mostly a tip for those that tend to play older titles that may need a third party patch or mods to make the game fully functional.

To be honest, if any game -no matter how old- requires more than 30 minutes (and I'm being generous) of tinkering before starting, it should be an instant refund.

That publisher needs to be slapped with an high percentage of lost sales, and has to stop and put out better versions of the game.
Let them get away with something like this is wrong.

[Steelz Cloud]

I personally think the policy should be bent a little to be more suitable for games that are based on launchers or games that are STILL active even if you were to close them, other than that I would say the refund policy is rather satitisfying.

[The End]

Originally posted by bannaman:

All other places that sell games online give refunds on games just as steam says they do.

Wrong, let's take GOG as an exsample.

c) Money back guarantee: if you buy any GOG content and have significant technical issues with it (e.g. there is a major show stopper bug in a game that prevents you from finishing it), we will give you a full refund if all the following requirements are met:
(i) You must have genuine significant technical issues with the GOG content.
(ii) You need to contact GOG Customer Support to request the refund within 30 days of the original purchase (if you received it from a GOG-authorised exchange for another product, then the 30 day period starts running from the date of exchange).
(iii) GOG Customer Support must have a reasonable time period in which to try to resolve the issue before they process the refund to you.

d) Withdrawal Right: we give you the right to withdraw from a purchase of GOG content without charge and for any reason within 30 days after you bought that GOG content, IF it has not been downloaded, streamed, activated or used in any way before then. If any of those things happen then your withdrawal right is lost.

https://www.gog.com/support/policies/gog_user_agreement