EOS & Game Sorting

[bgray9054]

Hello, just wanted to toss out a couple things I'd really like to see in a future update to the Steam client -

1.) Many gamers are not fans of Epic or EOS (Epic Online Services) - it'd be nice if Steam could have developers put up on the store pages for the games if the game uses EOS or not (and if there are plans to do so, or just make it outright against the rules if the game is going to be on Steam) - I've had to contact developers via their own support recently to inquire about whether EOS was in their games or not before purchasing.

2.) Would be nice if you could add a "Sort Title" entry for our games that we could edit by right-clicking on the game and going into Properties for both Steam owned and non-Steam games which would allow us to tweak the sorting order of our games so they're in the order we want them to be in.

Thank you!

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by bgray9054:

2.) Would be nice if you could add a "Sort Title" entry for our games that we could edit by right-clicking on the game and going into Properties for both Steam owned and non-Steam games which would allow us to tweak the sorting order of our games so they're in the order we want them to be in.

This can be done in conjunction with a separate "display title" field, which can be used to correct game names that have various weirdness to them thanks to the publishers.

And both can and should be editable. Here's the example I usually provide of how this would work: With display and sort titles separately editable, we can have...

* "FINAL FANTASY VIII" - display as "Final Fantasy VIII", sort as "Final Fantasy 08"
* "FINAL FANTASY IX" - display as "Final Fantasy IX", sort as "Final Fantasy 09"
* "FINAL FANTASY® XIII" - display as "Final Fantasy XIII", sort as "Final Fantasy 13 part 1"
* "LIGHTNING RETURNS™: FINAL FANTASY® XIII" - display as "Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII", sort as "Final Fantasy 13 part 3"
* "FINAL FANTASY XIV Online" - display as "Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn", sort as "Final Fantasy 14"

Note how this means that the user can have the FF games in their proper order (despite the very inconsistent naming that Squenix provided), but also have them displaying more proper titles, and also remove trademark symbols (which Squenix didn't even apply consistently).

This dual functionality is already available in GOG Galaxy, so that's a nice proof of concept you can play around with.

(Note: If you want to play around with it but have never bought GOG games before, there are a few freebies, but note that you don't have to have GOG games to use Galaxy -- it's designed as a universal launcher and can be used to launch Steam games as well as anything you manually add.)

[Nx Machina]

1) Developers, publishers are responsible for all information on the store page.

2) Download SteamEdit

Scroll to the game or games you want to change, and below the default name type in (for example) Doom 01, Doom 02 etc, save each entry, exit then boot Steam and they will be in the order you require.

Note: if Steam gets an update, it may reset the order but simply reboot SteamEdit and scroll down to entries you previously edited and saved and simply save them again, no need to edit.

Reboot Steam and they will be again listed in the order you set them.

Screenshot attached showing previous edited, saved entries listed.

https://ibb.co/9vVGdMt

Screenshot attached showing Baldur's Gate in the order i set them.

https://ibb.co/Ky2z0Jt

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

1) Developers, publishers are responsible for all information on the store page.

Steam does display when third-party services are required and I think perhaps it ought to include Epic Online Services?

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by Quint the Alligator Snapper:

Originally posted by Nx Machina:

1) Developers, publishers are responsible for all information on the store page.

Steam does display when third-party services are required and I think perhaps it ought to include Epic Online Services?

Isn't that for 3rd party accounts? EOS doesn't require an account. It can just be a back-end for multiplayer, cross platform and other aspects of a game. It is a part of the Epic Game Engine.

https://dev.epicgames.com/docs/services/en-US/index.html

https://dev.epicgames.com/docs/services/en-US/GameServices/Overview/index.html

Epic Online Services (EOS) are free, cross-platform services created to enable fast, easy, and dependable high-quality game launching, operation, and scaling.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by bgray9054:

or just make it outright against the rules if the game is going to be on Steam)

Disagree strongly, your free to not buy it, but you have no right telling others they can't buy a game because it uses something you don't like.

it doesn't require an account, its just software and no different then the multiplayer connectivity that basically any game uses.

Its going to be used more and more, and its a pretty decent service for crossplay that unlike their store is actually a good product.

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Isn't that for 3rd party accounts? EOS doesn't require an account. It can just be a back-end for multiplayer, cross platform and other aspects of a game. It is a part of the Epic Game Engine.

Yep correct, its non invasive and doesn't require an account

[bgray9054]

Originally posted by brian9824:

Originally posted by bgray9054:

or just make it outright against the rules if the game is going to be on Steam)

Disagree strongly, your free to not buy it, but you have no right telling others they can't buy a game because it uses something you don't like.

it doesn't require an account, its just software and no different then the multiplayer connectivity that basically any game uses.

Its going to be used more and more, and its a pretty decent service for crossplay that unlike their store is actually a good product.

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Isn't that for 3rd party accounts? EOS doesn't require an account. It can just be a back-end for multiplayer, cross platform and other aspects of a game. It is a part of the Epic Game Engine.

Yep correct, its non invasive and doesn't require an account

And that's fine that you feel that way, but it would be very nice to have it at least listed on the game's store page so that folks who don't want EOS on their machines will know up front that it's in the game.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by bgray9054:

Originally posted by brian9824:

Disagree strongly, your free to not buy it, but you have no right telling others they can't buy a game because it uses something you don't like.

it doesn't require an account, its just software and no different then the multiplayer connectivity that basically any game uses.

Its going to be used more and more, and its a pretty decent service for crossplay that unlike their store is actually a good product.




Yep correct, its non invasive and doesn't require an account

And that's fine that you feel that way, but it would be very nice to have it at least listed on the game's store page so that folks who don't want EOS on their machines will know up front that it's in the game.

I'm not against the idea, but its getting to a level of granularity that is becoming unrealistic. Games can contain hundreds of pieces of software that are used to provide the experience that people might not want due to ignorance.

Every multiplayer game has some sort of service running for that connection, an engine, etc. Steam doesn't control that information, and they wouldn't know what the software uses so its not really a steam suggestion.

its up to the developers to provide that info.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by bgray9054:

And that's fine that you feel that way, but it would be very nice to have it at least listed on the game's store page so that folks who don't want EOS on their machines will know up front that it's in the game.

And it is fine for people to feel that way as well, but aside from their feelings, is there really any reason to add it? It is non-intrusive and simply used to facilitate the multiplayer aspects of a game.

Is there a reason to point out to it and not do the same with others? Unity, PlayFab, Godot, Google, Microsoft, Valve/Steam, ect, all have multiplayer APIs as well that do the same or similar things as the ESO api does. If one is listed, should they all be listed, even if a few people don't want to use them?

Look, I don't like Epic Store anymore then anyone else. I even had my account deleted shortly after Epic created it, but I don't really see an issue with EOS, provided they don't require me to have an Epic Account (and if an Epic Account is required, then the store should already state it) then I don't really see an issue. It is ESO is just a common, multiplayer API.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by bgray9054:

And that's fine that you feel that way, but it would be very nice to have it at least listed on the game's store page so that folks who don't want EOS on their machines will know up front that it's in the game.

Which is entirely on the developer, publisher to provide as they maintain the store page.

[Crashed]

TMNT Shredder's Revenge has EOS for cross-platform play. It's optional to be enabled but if cross-play is enabled you do have to link your Steam account to your Epic account.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by bgray9054:

And that's fine that you feel that way, but it would be very nice to have it at least listed on the game's store page so that folks who don't want EOS on their machines will know up front that it's in the game.

And it is fine for people to feel that way as well, but aside from their feelings, is there really any reason to add it? It is non-intrusive and simply used to facilitate the multiplayer aspects of a game.

Is there a reason to point out to it and not do the same with others? Unity, PlayFab, Godot, Google, Microsoft, Valve/Steam, ect, all have multiplayer APIs as well that do the same or similar things as the ESO api does. If one is listed, should they all be listed, even if a few people don't want to use them?

Look, I don't like Epic Store anymore then anyone else. I even had my account deleted shortly after Epic created it, but I don't really see an issue with EOS, provided they don't require me to have an Epic Account (and if an Epic Account is required, then the store should already state it) then I don't really see an issue. It is ESO is just a common, multiplayer API.

Not to mention that steam can't enforce it as they don't know what API's are used by the game.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by brian9824:

Not to mention that steam can't enforce it as they don't know what API's are used by the game.

Well, they can, but it would have to be after the fact and if people even bothered to report it.

Just like how there is a part of the store page where 3rd party account requirements are supposed to go.

Though it is also based on a publisher/developer's honesty that it be there to begin with.

I know at least one game that still does not state micro-transactions tag on it's store page, despite many people reporting it as having them. That has been on-going for years. Some developers will forever remain dishonest... hence why I blacklisted the developer from my one purchases.

[bgray9054]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by bgray9054:

And that's fine that you feel that way, but it would be very nice to have it at least listed on the game's store page so that folks who don't want EOS on their machines will know up front that it's in the game.

And it is fine for people to feel that way as well, but aside from their feelings, is there really any reason to add it? It is non-intrusive and simply used to facilitate the multiplayer aspects of a game.

Is there a reason to point out to it and not do the same with others? Unity, PlayFab, Godot, Google, Microsoft, Valve/Steam, ect, all have multiplayer APIs as well that do the same or similar things as the ESO api does. If one is listed, should they all be listed, even if a few people don't want to use them?

Look, I don't like Epic Store anymore then anyone else. I even had my account deleted shortly after Epic created it, but I don't really see an issue with EOS, provided they don't require me to have an Epic Account (and if an Epic Account is required, then the store should already state it) then I don't really see an issue. It is ESO is just a common, multiplayer API.

The more information the better, yes. I have EOS blocked in my hosts file, but I know from discussion on some other boards that I've seen some people say that they've had games where some aspects of it were impacted such as DLC that were inaccessible without connectivity to EOS, so that's the reason I'd be interested in knowing if a game has EOS or not. Would save the trouble of contacting the developer directly to inquire, basically if there was more information on the store pages.

[Brian9824]

Originally posted by Spawn of Totoro:

Originally posted by brian9824:

Not to mention that steam can't enforce it as they don't know what API's are used by the game.

Well, they can, but it would have to be after the fact and if people even bothered to report it.

Just like how there is a part of the store page where 3rd party account requirements are supposed to go.

Though it is also based on a publisher/developer's honesty that it be there to begin with.

I know at least one game that still does not state micro-transactions tag on it's store page, despite many people reporting it as having them. That has been on-going for years. Some developers will forever remain dishonest... hence why I blacklisted the developer from my one purchases.

Assuming people even KNOW all the API's being used.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Originally posted by bgray9054:

The more information the better, yes. I have EOS blocked in my hosts file, but I know from discussion on some other boards that I've seen some people say that they've had games where some aspects of it were impacted such as DLC that were inaccessible without connectivity to EOS, so that's the reason I'd be interested in knowing if a game has EOS or not. Would save the trouble of contacting the developer directly to inquire, basically if there was more information on the store pages.

Except that has nothing to do with EOS and is the decision of the developer. As EOS is a multiplayer API, the issue is less likely EOS and is another component that checks for the rights to the DLC (or something similar).

Originally posted by brian9824:

Assuming people even KNOW all the API's being used.

Exactly. There are likely 10,000s or more APIs out there that are being used by developers (not just multiplayer APIs). Not all can be listed and trying to do so will simply lead to information overload for the average user.

I have no idea why EOS is seen as an issue, except for people wanting to avoid Epic, yet have no issues buying a game that uses the Epic Game Engine.