Native support for valve games on Apple arm processors - M1, M1 pro, M1 max, M1 ultra, m2, and the following chips

[ZcorpX]

A lot of topics have been discussed here, but I don't understand why the most popular counterargument for developers is 2% of Mac users. How valve and other users do not see the logical error that Mac users do not play on mac computers because games are not supported. How can mac users play if games are not supported?

I have a lot of friends who bought themselves new Macs, none of them play on the mac just for the reason that everything is very bad, even Steam itself is not optimized, which immediately pushes away from the idea of playing. How do developers not see the relationship between how many people use macs for games and the fact that 95% of games are not compatible with mac? I've read all the topics related to m1 chips and native support, it's a horror to what people are not logical. In general, if the Valve management thinks that the Mac is not a popular Computer for games, collecting statistics from the use of Steam, then, there is a direct dependence, it is not popular precisely because it is impossible to play on it, how it can be used for games, even if Steam itself has been working through for 2 years. Rosetta 2.

Mac computers are very popular, you can see the sales reports published by Apple. And if you can play on them, and it depends only on the developers (there are no problems with graphics and performance in the m series), then Apple's equipment would be considered for purchase as a gaming solution, which together would raise the mark from 2% of players on the mac to unimaginable limits. But unfortunately, no one sees the logical dependence that if there are no games on the mac, then you can't play on them, and those that are 2% of masochists who torment themselves with this rosetta 2 are just the audience of their survey.

My post is for developers, and for players with mac m series, so that they do not hesitate to write appeals to developers, thinking that they are a minority, we are a minority precisely for the reason that there are no games for mac and the idea of playing and installing Steam on mac m series does not seem very attractive. When developers are too lazy to simply update their built-in browser on arm / Write topics, letters, let everyone know that many people would like to play on Mac, given that processors allow. I have repeated myself many times, sorry if anything, just bombs, and I write the thoughts that come.

[Mad Scientist]

This quote by Satoru seems relevant and to be happening as predicted;

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

Literally all your games are going to stop working on macs in 2-3 years

That’s apples fault

Devs are not going to bother to recompile their games for M1s in addition to all the other nonsense Apple has made them do in the past 2-3 years, like deprecating 32 bit, requiring Metal, requiring signing. Devs didn’t want to do any of that even before M1.

Your steam library is dead on Macs. That’s apples fault. Your future is the iOS store so you better get used to it.

[Black Blade]

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Your opinion in every paragraph is wrong. And the reality is exactly the opposite of your opinion. Look at the surveys, if any, which is important for most people when buying a computer. I didn't mean to offend you in any way, I just think otherwise, according to the information I have, things are the opposite of what you think. About links to information? What kind of information is it that apple does not forbid you to build your application infrastructure in any way, and does not get into payments in any way? That Windows is also a closed system like apple? What links do you want?

I want links to data showing that anything on your options really stand, and are not just made up by you, and do not exist in reality

Your option and my option each come from our own experience, we can both be right, and yet both be wrong, as long as there is no facts and stuff that can be shown

Pepole linked to stats of sales of Mac in the US, the over all market of macs on Steam and you have linked nothing but just keep saying how everyone are wrong
I am asking please show stuff to show your claim over just making them out of thin air

[ZcorpX]

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

The client works incredibly well unless you have a very old/weak processor that's not capable of handling more than a few browser tabs, social media, and a single youtube video playing.

There's frequent fixes and updates. It's as optimized as it's going to be until the next major release.

I have experience using steam mac, mbp m1 16 and mbp m1 max 32, in both cases the result upsets me. So it's not true that everything is perfect, the launcher is buggy, and something is constantly wrong, then there is no text, and even skipping frames and ragged scrolling, this is a normal story.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Windows is designed to work as well as the combination of hardware and software installed onto the machine.

Power, and performance, is now relevant not only for windows, as I wrote earlier, apple has quite a lot of interesting technologies that can compete with windows/

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Doubt.

There is no reason to doubt

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Would you be willing to pay $260-450 for a $60 game just to have a mac version?

An interesting experience, but time has changed, and now things are different. Development for apple is not the same as before.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Because Linux Development is far easier and more likely to happen, especially given the huge success of Valves own Steam Deck which will if anything, massively increase the popularity of Linux in total. Considering the chance for future development of a Steam Machine (not like the old ones), this could as well have very desirable outcomes for Valve and Developers.

It's strange that the argument: development and success under linux will make linux more popular, everyone is seriously considering and even discussing, and the same thing under mac, for some reason, no one adds up. Developing for a mac won't make it more popular? But no, sorry, it's different.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

People don't like developing games for proprietary systems especially when the company makes poor decisions in regard to gaming.

Although Windows is not for their own computers, most of them are also closed source software, and this did not prevent anyone from making it the number 1 system for games. Second: About the wrong decisions for game developers, are you talking about your own store? It doesn't matter at all, this is their store, their rules, but no one prevents you from building your ecosystem, such as valve, your store, and apple has not shown any influence on developers outside of its store. If there was such a thing, specify an example.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

I have to ask what your intentions here are, as your only post history is solely about the M1 mac use, there is no other history whatsoever on the forums other than this from the account.

I indicated my intentions explicitly and openly in my first message. I would like all developers and people who can influence them not to be led by incomprehensible statistics that mislead everyone. When they confuse the effect with the cause and change their places. But the result of what I wrote here gave me the idea that most likely the reasons are that apple and valve simply could not agree on a mutually beneficial relationship. That's the only reason it's so bad. I mean exactly valve games, their launcher, and no motivation for the developers of their store. Although it is obvious that $11 billion in revenue for the 3rd quarter, this is a lot of apple computers)

[ZcorpX]

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

This quote by Satoru seems relevant and to be happening as predicted;

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

Literally all your games are going to stop working on macs in 2-3 years

That’s apples fault

Devs are not going to bother to recompile their games for M1s in addition to all the other nonsense Apple has made them do in the past 2-3 years, like deprecating 32 bit, requiring Metal, requiring signing. Devs didn’t want to do any of that even before M1.

Your steam library is dead on Macs. That’s apples fault. Your future is the iOS store so you better get used to it.

Look, the message again has nothing to do with reality. 2 years ago, I bought the first mac on m1, then I might have thought that everything was because I couldn't launch any games from steam, but now the situation, though not much, has changed. I can play cs go at 70-90fps, and on m1 pro, much more. I don't think that in a year, everything will get worse and I'll forget. Now I think that apple and steam will agree on cooperation.

[Satoru]

Again for the umpteenth time

1) M1 processors are not compatible with x86 intel based code
2) Apple has all but abandoned OpenGL the only cross platform graphical API, meaning devs need to support multiple graphical pipelines to support Metal on Macs
3) Developers need to functionally recompile and recreate their games, from scratch, to make them compatible with M1 processors. No one is going to do this for older games
4) Apple has all but declared the Mac is now a walled garden. Meaning that programs like steam functionally can't exist on the Mac store
5) Developers by and large are sick of Apples utter nonsense over the past few years. Dropping 32-bit libraries. Requiring constant digital signing of games. OpenGL is basically dead in all but name. The M1 conversion that will, in a few years, make your entire steam library utterly and totally unplayable once Rosetta2 dies. AND ROSETTA2 WILL BE KILLED do not think Rosetta2 is somehow going to magically survive into future MacOS updates. You've got maybe 2-3 years before Apple removes it

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

This quote by Satoru seems relevant and to be happening as predicted;

Look, the message again has nothing to do with reality. 2 years ago, I bought the first mac on m1, then I might have thought that everything was because I couldn't launch any games from steam, but now the situation, though not much, has changed. I can play cs go at 70-90fps, and on m1 pro, much more. I don't think that in a year, everything will get worse and I'll forget. Now I think that apple and steam will agree on cooperation.

So, you don't have a suggestion for Valve then, correct?

The message isn't that old, and it's happening as basically any industry pro has predicted.

Since there's no real suggestion for valve/steam and you just want to insist everyone else is wrong including even those with first hand experience, I don't believe you're really here to have an honest discussion.

Contact any developer or publisher you want to add m1/Mac support to, though I doubt they'd go for such a very small number and that overly specific of a proprietary combination.

[Black Blade]

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

There is no reason to doubt

I disagree with that
You seem to just keep saying "your wrong" without showing stuff that really prove anyone here wrong as much as you say you can

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

It's strange that the argument: development and success under linux will make linux more popular, everyone is seriously considering and even discussing, and the same thing under mac, for some reason, no one adds up. Developing for a mac won't make it more popular? But no, sorry, it's different.

Because one can be installed on any PC you wish, one makes it so you have to buy a very specific hardware to be able to access it, so yes its different
Any user on Windows or Mac can switch to Linux
Only users on Mac hardware can switch to Mac software

So yes its different

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Although Windows is not for their own computers, most of them are also closed source software, and this did not prevent anyone from making it the number 1 system for games. Second: About the wrong decisions for game developers, are you talking about your own store? It doesn't matter at all, this is their store, their rules, but no one prevents you from building your ecosystem, such as valve, your store, and apple has not shown any influence on developers outside of its store. If there was such a thing, specify an example.

Windows how ever is working hard to make sure stuff has back compblity, I can still play really old games on a Windows device, as much as I know Mac keeps pushing ahead dropping support for stuff left and right
Or is that also incorrect? and they got support for older software?

[ZcorpX]

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

Again for the umpteenth time

1) M1 processors are not compatible with x86 intel based code

M1 processors on ARM architecture, which is not so successful, but still used in windows, compilers have been recompiling everything in semi-automatic mode for a long time.

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

Again for the umpteenth time

2) Apple has all but abandoned OpenGL the only cross platform graphical API, meaning devs need to support multiple graphical pipelines to support Metal on Macs

I agree, there is a problem, but everything is probably not so simple, there are adequate reasons to abandon this technology in favor of your own.

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

Again for the umpteenth time


3) Developers need to functionally recompile and recreate their games, from scratch, to make them compatible with M1 processors. No one is going to do this for older games

No one is talking about the old games, you need exactly one of the most popular new games at the moment. And to begin with, at least update the valve launcher itself

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

Again for the umpteenth time

4) Apple has all but declared the Mac is now a walled garden. Meaning that programs like steam functionally can't exist on the Mac store

What did Apple almost announce? Where exactly? What are your reasons for thinking that he will declare? And steam initially does not correspond to the idea and business model of the apple store) How should it appear there? The argument is so-so. Not serious.

Messaggio originale di Satoru:

Again for the umpteenth time

5) You've got maybe 2-3 years before Apple removes it

Maybe steam and apple will agree after all) that's more likely to happen

[ZcorpX]

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

So, you don't have a suggestion for Valve then, correct?

What do you mean, no? I have already made my suggestions several times. I want Valve to finally agree with apple and start cooperation, I want developers to see the prospect of developing for mac, my suggestion is: First, you need to make native Steam support for m1, then you could at least cs go more or less to make it bearable, native. Without friezes and lags. These are my main suggestions!

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

The message isn't that old, and it's happening as basically any industry pro has predicted.

I don't see anything wrong with getting rid of junk, and dragging gigabytes of code into each system with you, as Windows does, is not the way of apple.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Since there's no real suggestion for valve/steam and you just want to insist everyone else is wrong including even those with first hand experience, I don't believe you're really here to have an honest discussion.

First:The offer is real, and I have already written it several times! Secondly, I am the one who partially has first-hand experience. What you write here is far-fetched and is either your or someone else's fantasy. The third: What exactly did I say in contradiction to someone who has experience?

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Contact any developer or publisher you want to add m1/Mac support to, though I doubt they'd go for such a very small number and that overly specific of a proprietary combination.

Your doubts are in vain, all companies that respect users have long released optimized applications for m1, and companies like Whatsapp Meta simply do not release them because they do not want to. It's the same with the steam launcher, it's obvious to any developer that it costs nothing to release a steam application for m1, absolutely no labor costs) Everything has already been done for them.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

I don't believe you're really here to have an honest discussion.

It's very strange that you say that. But I even wondered if you would publish your suspicions about this, because I don't understand what exactly seemed wrong to you in my dialogue with all users?

[Boblin the Goblin]

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

So, you don't have a suggestion for Valve then, correct?

What do you mean, no? I have already made my suggestions several times. I want Valve to finally agree with apple and start cooperation, I want developers to see the prospect of developing for mac, my suggestion is: First, you need to make native Steam support for m1, then you could at least cs go more or less to make it bearable, native. Without friezes and lags. These are my main suggestions!

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

The message isn't that old, and it's happening as basically any industry pro has predicted.

I don't see anything wrong with getting rid of junk, and dragging gigabytes of code into each system with you, as Windows does, is not the way of apple.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Since there's no real suggestion for valve/steam and you just want to insist everyone else is wrong including even those with first hand experience, I don't believe you're really here to have an honest discussion.

First:The offer is real, and I have already written it several times! Secondly, I am the one who partially has first-hand experience. What you write here is far-fetched and is either your or someone else's fantasy. The third: What exactly did I say in contradiction to someone who has experience?

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Contact any developer or publisher you want to add m1/Mac support to, though I doubt they'd go for such a very small number and that overly specific of a proprietary combination.

Your doubts are in vain, all companies that respect users have long released optimized applications for m1, and companies like Whatsapp Meta simply do not release them because they do not want to. It's the same with the steam launcher, it's obvious to any developer that it costs nothing to release a steam application for m1, absolutely no labor costs) Everything has already been done for them.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

I don't believe you're really here to have an honest discussion.

It's very strange that you say that. But I even wondered if you would publish your suspicions about this, because I don't understand what exactly seemed wrong to you in my dialogue with all users?

This just reeks of fanboyism.

Apple isn't this great computer that has no competition in terms of performance and quality.

[Mad Scientist]

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

So, you don't have a suggestion for Valve then, correct?

What do you mean, no? I have already made my suggestions several times. I want Valve to finally agree with apple and start cooperation, I want developers to see the prospect of developing for mac, my suggestion is: First, you need to make native Steam support for m1, then you could at least cs go more or less to make it bearable, native. Without friezes and lags. These are my main suggestions!

The Steam Client is, again, for those that choose to come to it. They do not reach out to other parties, except to make their steam deck or other related things beneficial to the company.

What you're suggesting, is of no benefit. It's also more for developers en-masse, that is not what this section is for.

Valve is also immensely unlikely to work with a party that has habits of being proprietary and largely making poor decisions for gaming as mentioned. They are not compatible parties.

Valve isn't the party that makes other people's games, the various developers yet again choose what is to develop for. The new chips and Mac combo, is not worth investing time in as non Mac developers as a majority.

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

I don't see anything wrong with getting rid of junk, and dragging gigabytes of code into each system with you, as Windows does, is not the way of apple.

Having backwards compatibility and numerous points of compatibility is overly important in an environment that caters to everything, something Apple is not about.

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

First:The offer is real, and I have already written it several times!

If it's an offer, then you'd cover the development costs for these parties?

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Secondly, I am the one who partially has first-hand experience. What you write here is far-fetched and is either your or someone else's fantasy.

"partially". I worked for one of the more recognized hardware companies. Hence why I asked what you ignored in regard to buying a game for more to have compatibility.

Seems you're just trying to bait people into arguments with people than have an actual discussion.

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Your doubts are in vain, all companies that respect users have long released optimized applications for m1

We didn't. We won't.

The whole meta, etc - everything requires labor, nothing truly has no cost. Development costs money.

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

I don't believe you're really here to have an honest discussion.

It's very strange that you say that. But I even wondered if you would publish your suspicions about this, because I don't understand what exactly seemed wrong to you in my dialogue with all users?

Everything.

[ZcorpX]

Messaggio originale di KittenGrindr:

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

What do you mean, no? I have already made my suggestions several times. I want Valve to finally agree with apple and start cooperation, I want developers to see the prospect of developing for mac, my suggestion is: First, you need to make native Steam support for m1, then you could at least cs go more or less to make it bearable, native. Without friezes and lags. These are my main suggestions!



I don't see anything wrong with getting rid of junk, and dragging gigabytes of code into each system with you, as Windows does, is not the way of apple.



First:The offer is real, and I have already written it several times! Secondly, I am the one who partially has first-hand experience. What you write here is far-fetched and is either your or someone else's fantasy. The third: What exactly did I say in contradiction to someone who has experience?




Your doubts are in vain, all companies that respect users have long released optimized applications for m1, and companies like Whatsapp Meta simply do not release them because they do not want to. It's the same with the steam launcher, it's obvious to any developer that it costs nothing to release a steam application for m1, absolutely no labor costs) Everything has already been done for them.



It's very strange that you say that. But I even wondered if you would publish your suspicions about this, because I don't understand what exactly seemed wrong to you in my dialogue with all users?

This just reeks of fanboyism.

Apple isn't this great computer that has no competition in terms of performance and quality.

What does it smell like? The fact that you just use a computer in which you have never heard the cooler noise, and have not seen it raise the CPU temperature more than 35 degrees? This does not mean that this is exactly a good computer? Please don't be envious, tell me that Apple is not a good computer) 2 years ago, I would not have advised anyone to use an intel mac, since I know firsthand what a hot mac is, what poor performance is on a top-end mac. But once again, everything changed after 2020. And it's not advertising, it's just a new level, and I'd like to play on the mac! Because sometimes it's boring, and I have no options to play, my indignation is quite justified. And there are many like me. A lot to ignore. It's just that not everyone writes about it. So, mister, it doesn't smell from my side, I adequately assess the equipment and its cost. It just smells like an envious undeserved bullying of the m series, and poppies.

[ZcorpX]

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

The whole meta, etc - everything requires labor, nothing truly has no cost. Development costs money.

"partially". I worked for one of the more recognized hardware companies. Hence why I asked what you ignored in regard to buying a game for more to have compatibility.

You know, I thought I had a remote relationship to development, considering that I am a programmer only for web technologies, and my experience in developing applications for apple is a maximum of react native, well, a little swift, but as far as I understand, judging by your assessment of the amount of work for the meta messenger, you have much more a "partial" attitude to development than me. They don't do support, just because it's not a priority, and there are no other, much less financial reasons. Less than a week after the m1 presentation, Telegram released a fully stable release of its messenger. These are priorities. I did not ignore, but on the contrary, I answered quite clearly and clearly, namely, I said that now development for apple is not much more expensive, and the time is far from the same as before. Now it's much cheaper, and the fact that you called the amount 300% more than on Windows is nonsense. The situation is different now. I'm not saying that there is the same amount of money for development, I'm saying that if more, then not much.

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Seems you're just trying to bait people into arguments with people than have an actual discussion.

My goal is transparent, as much as it can be, I want to draw attention to the problem that has formed. Steam is not native, although there is not much work there, we could do it. CS-Go works very poorly when compared even with windows on the same mac via parallels, which is very strange for me, and shows that cs-go can work fine! But no, something is constantly wrong, I have already reinstalled it 20 times. But this is not the topic of our conversation. Once again, for you personally, I repeat, I have no goal at all to argue with anyone. I'm just saying that turning a blind eye to the problem is not an option, it's time to do something. And not to spread far-fetched arguments in the likeness of those above: Oh apple has practically banned this, oh apple has banned this, almost banned it, but then it will definitely ban it. This is all speculation and speculation without serious grounds. The only thing I see is that my machine copes with much more complex tasks without problems than rendering the chromium browser on steam, but it can't cope with the steam in any way, and everything seems to slow down on purpose

Messaggio originale di Mad Scientist:

Everything.

Every word of mine has turned out to be strange for you. Yes, it's probably just me and not you. I do not know what to say to that. Because I wrote everything I think.

[Boblin the Goblin]

Messaggio originale di ZcorpX:

Messaggio originale di KittenGrindr:

This just reeks of fanboyism.

Apple isn't this great computer that has no competition in terms of performance and quality.

What does it smell like? The fact that you just use a computer in which you have never heard the cooler noise, and have not seen it raise the CPU temperature more than 35 degrees? This does not mean that this is exactly a good computer? Please don't be envious, tell me that Apple is not a good computer) 2 years ago, I would not have advised anyone to use an intel mac, since I know firsthand what a hot mac is, what poor performance is on a top-end mac. But once again, everything changed after 2020. And it's not advertising, it's just a new level, and I'd like to play on the mac! Because sometimes it's boring, and I have no options to play, my indignation is quite justified. And there are many like me. A lot to ignore. It's just that not everyone writes about it. So, mister, it doesn't smell from my side, I adequately assess the equipment and its cost. It just smells like an envious undeserved bullying of the m series, and poppies.

Did you actually just say Mac computers never have a CPU above 35°?

Lol.

[Crazy Tiger]

Games with Mac versions existed and worked fine before the M1 chip came. And yet the mac gaming userbase was and stayed small.

If there really was this large potential market, developers would be all over it. Reality is that it's come to the point that it isn't worth it for developers to try and keep up with Apples antics.

Apple might have a good chip there, sure, but that doesn't magically make it of interest for gaming or a large potential market.