Refunds for Early Access titles

[datCookie]

I know this is something Valve would NEVER do because it would mean lost money, but I think it's worth suggesting anyway.

I think Valve should allow refunds at any time for any title in Early Access, until such a time the title is released or abandoned. Yes, some people may exploit this and support an Early Access game until release and then just refund, having played hundreds, if not thousands of hours on the title and are bored. But if you've spent the time supporting it until then, more than likely you will continue to do so when it's released.

Given the fragile nature of Early Access, you never really know if a title is going to make it through or not, or even if it will be properly "complete" upon its release. We've all seen titles slap a '1.0' on them and call it done, when it never really was.

At the same time, it's also horrendous to be backing a title only to find that months or even years down the track they abandon it for one reason or another. You can't refund it because you're past the 2 hour/14 day time limit and Valve won't budge.

Let me know your thoughts :)

[Start_Running]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Radene:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zetikla:

its not if you know what you buy into

Eh? Knowing the risks doesn't make the practice any less dubious in and of itself. Just means I won't fall prey to it.

RIsks are there for those who desire them.

[Radene]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Start_Running:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Radene:

Eh? Knowing the risks doesn't make the practice any less dubious in and of itself. Just means I won't fall prey to it.

RIsks are there for those who desire them.

You know what's the simplest and most effective way to sell a risk to someone?

Make them think it was their idea and that they wanted it all along.

[Tito Shivan]

Early Access titles follow the same refund rules any other game.
Less than 2 hours of playtime and bought less than 2 weeks ago.

No one guarantees Early Access from releasing like no one guarantees a non Early Access game won't be updated to add microtransactions or made F2P.

Follow the Early Access FAQ to the T if you want to avoid unmeeted expectations.

[cinedine]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Radene:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Zetikla:

those people could learn to not buy into early acces if they cannot take the risk

No, Valve cannot always hold your hands nor should they.

Valve should not have pulled the early access stunt in the first place if you ask me.

It's simply manipulative and I personally don't find it ethical.

To be fair, it was already before Steam that such kind of games were made. Most famous of course Minecraft and Star Citizen which both raked in millions. But also Facebook games with their eternal "Beta" status and games like Towns that where all but finished without telling people outright.
At the very least Early Access gives you a warning. But there are more than enough examples that don't bother with it and don't even have the honesty to call themselves beta or similar.

[Radene]

Ursprungligen skrivet av cinedine:

Ursprungligen skrivet av Radene:

Valve should not have pulled the early access stunt in the first place if you ask me.

It's simply manipulative and I personally don't find it ethical.

To be fair, it was already before Steam that such kind of games were made. Most famous of course Minecraft and Star Citizen which both raked in millions. But also Facebook games with their eternal "Beta" status and games like Towns that where all but finished without telling people outright.
At the very least Early Access gives you a warning. But there are more than enough examples that don't bother with it and don't even have the honesty to call themselves beta or similar.

It's all in the wrapping tho. "Beta" clearly conveys an unfinished state, likely glitchy and maybe even unplayable before fixes.

The way early access was sold on front page, was like "hey, this is how you get exclusive first peeks, participate in the development, and can support the developers as the game matures before release" and whatever.

What a surprise people complain about having "invested" in something - the sales pitch virtually told them that's exactly what they were doing.

Oh yes sure, there is the FAQ and the store page disclaimer, that takes care of the legal, boring technical stuff.

But the introduction was carefully designed to make people not bother with the boring, technical stuff because look at all this cool stuff you think you're buying and if you figure out you've been had, we'll just tell you you should have read the notice that was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.'

That's how advertising works these days, and yes, I consider advertising a very unethical industry.

But hey, maybe people will wise up and stop buying into this one day. It's the only way for it to go away.

A, who am I kiddin', we're stuck with it.

[cinedine]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Radene:

That's how advertising works these days, and yes, I consider advertising a very unethical industry.

But hey, maybe people will wise up and stop buying into this one day. It's the only way for it to go away.

A, who am I kiddin', we're stuck with it.

And this is the crux: people don't wise up. Or at least there's a new sucker born every minute.
One would think after years of Day Z being in Early Access virtually going nowhere and all the stories surrounding the programme, people did wise up and don't throw money at it willy-nilly. Same for Kickstarter.
Same for hyped games full of promises and "genre defying" experiences.

From a business point of view it's stupid to let something as flexible as ethics or morale be in the way of making millions. Especially when history proves that you can make customers forget (and forgive in terms of PR damage) easily as every rage only lasts until the next outrage by someone else.

[Start_Running]

Ursprungligen skrivet av cinedine:

From a business point of view it's stupid to let something as flexible as ethics or morale be in the way of making millions. Especially when history proves that you can make customers forget (and forgive in terms of PR damage) easily as every rage only lasts until the next outrage by someone else.

Ethics, and Morals are relative. A dollar is objective.

[Radene]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Start_Running:

Ursprungligen skrivet av cinedine:

From a business point of view it's stupid to let something as flexible as ethics or morale be in the way of making millions. Especially when history proves that you can make customers forget (and forgive in terms of PR damage) easily as every rage only lasts until the next outrage by someone else.

Ethics, and Morals are relative. A dollar is objective.

Not even that. Ask me, ask Jeff Bezos, and ask an Eritrean refugee about the value of one dollar.

[Ocsabat]

Buyer beware.

It's very clearly stated on the store page what you are getting or what you may never get when you buy an Early Access game.

Anybody who buys EA games and complains later on down the road that the game was never finished or changed from what it was originally described as, is an idiot.

[Cherrycat]

Ursprungligen skrivet av datCookie:

I know this is something Valve would NEVER do because it would mean lost money, but I think it's worth suggesting anyway.

I think Valve should allow refunds at any time for any title in Early Access, until such a time the title is released or abandoned. Yes, some people may exploit this and support an Early Access game until release and then just refund, having played hundreds, if not thousands of hours on the title and are bored. But if you've spent the time supporting it until then, more than likely you will continue to do so when it's released.

Given the fragile nature of Early Access, you never really know if a title is going to make it through or not, or even if it will be properly "complete" upon its release. We've all seen titles slap a '1.0' on them and call it done, when it never really was.

At the same time, it's also horrendous to be backing a title only to find that months or even years down the track they abandon it for one reason or another. You can't refund it because you're past the 2 hour/14 day time limit and Valve won't budge.

Let me know your thoughts :)

This would be horrendously abused, people will just buy an EA game and play it will bored and refund.

Also they can't anyway, Steam holds the funds paid to them for 14 days and then pays the publisher / developer. They can't demand they give them the money back after that point to give to the customer.

[Tito Shivan]

Ursprungligen skrivet av cinedine:

And this is the crux: people don't wise up. Or at least there's a new sucker born every minute.

As happens with most entertainment related industries, the customers are like Fox Mulder and 'Want to believe'

The problems don't usually lie so much on the product advertising and marketing as it lies on self-made expectations.

We're not short of people who still want HL3 to be done, expecting to be up to a decade of expectatives. And it's not a game that's been even marketed.

[cinedine]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Tito Shivan:

The problems don't usually lie so much on the product advertising and marketing as it lies on self-made expectations.

Well, fueling expectations by being vague and not denying anything is also part of advertising strategies.
See the new Kojima title which was full of BS marketing phrases. Or Star Citizen that still tries to deliver on dreams. Or Rust with its "trust us, we know what we are doing" approach.

Nowadays you don't need a Peter Molyneux telling you the impossible to achieve what everyone dreams about in video games. People do so for themselves. Probably even agitated by sock puppets in social media who start rumours.

Some would call it unethical advertising. Saame would probably call Molyneux a notorious liar. Others would call it making people believe and fueling dreams so that they might come true.

Business ethics is quite funny after all. I am still salty about my ex making many times my salary being a consultant for this.

[Tito Shivan]

Ursprungligen skrivet av cinedine:

Well, fueling expectations by being vague and not denying anything is also part of advertising strategies.

I've noticed that the predisposition of letting these claims 'stick in' ranks higher when related to entertainment products.
In other areas people are less prone to take seriously vague statements and 'hype'... But when we're talking games, movies, books, TV shows... Boy do we cave in head first.