Please implement an (optional) age verification system

[Tomandandy]

My issue is that I live in Germany and the local laws make it impossible for me to purchase any game tagged as adult-only or let alone see the store page for said games.
Unfortunately the current method of verifying your age in steam, simply selecting your date of birth, is not considered sufficient to officially verify your age by German laws.
So what I would propose is the option for users to upload a photo of their ID to verify their age in an official way. That way users from Germany could once again access the whole steam store and steam would gain more customers as well. If this function stayed completely optional, it wouldn't cause harm to anybody.

I have also contacted steam support about this issue and was told I should make a thread about it in here, so here we are. Please consider my request.

[cinedine]

This has little to do with laws and all with Valve's overcorrecting an issue and ignoring it for over a year.

[DC-GS]

It was suggested already and probably wont happen. There are 2 reason against:

1) Liability
Having too much privata data is a huge liability for Valve.

2) No verification
It is impossible to proof if the uploaded picture is legit. It's a picture. You can edit pictures for free, isnt that hard.

[nullable]

Valve is aware Germany exists and is currently complying with German law by blocking those games. They have been for a while now.

So I think it's just a question of high how a priority your request is, versus the cost to implement against the value of the revenue that would be gained. There's probably also questions about how they would have to store that data and how accountable to even more laws they would have to be.

If it was cheap and easy and valuable, Valve would have done it I'm sure. Seeing as they haven't, there might be some issues that "optional" doesn't address.

[cinedine]

DC-GS님이 먼저 게시:

It was suggested already and probably wont happen. There are 2 reason against:

1) Liability
Having too much privata data is a huge liability for Valve.

2) No verification
It is impossible to proof if the uploaded picture is legit. It's a picture. You can edit pictures for free, isnt that hard.

Our (as in European, really) ID has checksums to verify the validity, expiration date and DOB. There is absolutely no need to store anything but a flag per transaction that the verification was succesful.
Or a flag per account. There is a multitude of ways to get it.

There are absolutely no problems on that matter. It's just Vavle's reluctance to resolve it.

[Nx Machina]

@ Tomandandy.

How does Steam verify it is actually you on the photo?

Secondly Germany has very strict pornography laws so Valve are protecting themselves.

And finally this is not an issue for other EU member states.

[Tomandandy]

Nx Machina님이 먼저 게시:

@ Tomandandy.

How does verify it is actually you on the photo?

I guess you could never be 100% sure but submitting a picture of your ID or verifying your age via your credit card was enough to access adult-only content on youtube so that method at least complies with the requirements over here.

[Nx Machina]

Tomandandy님이 먼저 게시:

I guess you could never be 100% sure but submitting a picture of your ID or verifying your age via your credit card was enough to access adult-only content on youtube so that method at least complies with the requirements over here.

And if it is not you submitting the ID picture or Credit card info but a minor how does Steam verify it is you, which goes to your point of "could never be 100% sure".

[Count_Dandyman]

Tomandandy님이 먼저 게시:

Nx Machina님이 먼저 게시:

@ Tomandandy.

How does verify it is actually you on the photo?

I guess you could never be 100% sure but submitting a picture of your ID or verifying your age via your credit card was enough to access adult-only content on youtube so that method at least complies with the requirements over here.

Youtube has been fined over breaking GDPR and currently faces another lawsuit over illegal data collection from children on top of the one it lost two years ago.

In other words they aren't always the best example of something being done right or in a method that fully satisfies the multiple layers of intertwined laws that need to be handled.

[Brian9824]

Tomandandy님이 먼저 게시:

I have also contacted steam support about this issue and was told I should make a thread about it in here, so here we are. Please consider my request.

That's IT Talk for go away we can't help you. They are aware of the issue and looking at how to address it which sadly might entail doing nothing. Valve would have to either develop a system that meets germany's standards, or integrate with an existing one that comes with costs. Unfortunately sometimes the best decision for a business is not making a change that a country sometimes demands.

Germany is more restrictive then 99% of the world sadly when it comes to this stuff.

cinedine님이 먼저 게시:

This has little to do with laws and all with Valve's overcorrecting an issue and ignoring it for over a year.

That is completely false, please don't spread misinformation. The restriction is well documented to be a result of stricter laws passed in germany regarding their regulations. Valve didn't wake up 1 day and go Golly gee, how can we screw over people in Germany today......

[Tomandandy]

Nx Machina님이 먼저 게시:

And if it is not you submitting the ID picture or Credit card info but a minor how does Steam verify it is you, which goes to your point of "could never be 100% sure".

Yeah I agree that online verification can never be completely accurate. Which is another reason that these backwards laws shouldn't even exist, I also realize that this situation isn't the fault of Valve but completely on our government.
However, we also have optional digital IDs over here, with which verification for the means of buying alcohol, tobacco, digital games and other things can be officially verified.

So Valve would have the option to create a verification system to users who are otherwise prohibited to buy these kinds of games if only they chose to implement it. But as others have stated, that might not be the most lucrative option for them. I suppose at this point all we can do is hope that they eventually create such an option.

[Start_Running]

Tomandandy님이 먼저 게시:

Nx Machina님이 먼저 게시:

And if it is not you submitting the ID picture or Credit card info but a minor how does Steam verify it is you, which goes to your point of "could never be 100% sure".

Yeah I agree that online verification can never be completely accurate. Which is another reason that these backwards laws shouldn't even exist, I also realize that this situation isn't the fault of Valve but completely on our government.

Yup and you as a Voting citizen have the power to change that.

Tomandandy님이 먼저 게시:

So Valve would have the option to create a verification system to users who are otherwise prohibited to buy these kinds of games if only they chose to implement it. But as others have stated, that might not be the most lucrative option for them. I suppose at this point all we can do is hope that they eventually create such an option.

That's a possibility. And that possibility costs money.
Phrase is: "Juice not worth the squeeze"

[Capt.Luke]

get a VPN ?
problem solve.

[Count_Dandyman]

Capt.Luke님이 먼저 게시:

get a VPN ?
problem solve.

Using a VPN to bypass content restrictions and access another countries store is not allowed and could lead to bigger problems for your account than just a few games not being available.

[Tito Shivan]

Snakub Plissken님이 먼저 게시:

Valve is aware Germany exists and is currently complying with German law by blocking those games. They have been for a while now.

So I think it's just a question of high how a priority your request is, versus the cost to implement against the value of the revenue that would be gained. There's probably also questions about how they would have to store that data and how accountable to even more laws they would have to be.

If it was cheap and easy and valuable, Valve would have done it I'm sure. Seeing as they haven't, there might be some issues that "optional" doesn't address.

TLDR: it's a cost/benefit issue.

Probably the cost of implementing whatever goverment-supported age verification system (And they can be a PITA to adopt) outweights the revenue they were getting from selling the now 'forbidden' games.

Not much different than when a developer decides not to sell on a certain region o translate their game to a certain language(s).

[cinedine]

Tomandandy님이 먼저 게시:

I also realize that this situation isn't the fault of Valve but completely on our government.

And you'd be mistaken ...

There is not even a requirement to have something 100 % verified. There is a little phrase that is applicable: "beyond reasonable doubt".
As said, plenty of solutions out there. Ranging from PostIdent to a simple checksum verification.