Add option to create political threads in Steam forums; block politics by default at user's discretion

[𒐪⎝ Epylector ⎠𒐪]

Please read this full OP before posting in case your contention is addressed.

I want to not have to leave Steam and use another forum just to have a conversation about politics. This is a feature that would be convenient and benefit me personally. I am sure other users would also no doubt enjoy being able to have a political conversation with other users, getting to know them and helping understand each other's views while also not having to leave this place.

The main problems with this idea, which I will address and solve, are three-fold:

1) Many users do not like politics and do not want politics associated with Steam, a place they go to specifically to escape said annoying stressful things.

2) Steam as a brand would be put at risk by political discussions being allowed as this would make Steam socially more negative of an experience and more divisive as a platform, leading to a worsened reputation.

3) Political threads targeting publishers or games on this platform could become a serious business problem for Steam, forcing Steam to look evil when it inevitably has to either ban those threads, or lose those publishers/games over outrage at said threads.

Let's start with 1)

By default, block the political section from view of users, but make it otherwise an option to post political threads in this political section. I personally would love for a political section to be allowed by default, but since Steam has a very strong reputation for fun and gaming that avoids divisive topics of politics so as to prevent a stressful atmosphere from brewing, it is understandable if the politics section must be blocked by default. Either way, just make it a feature in 'Store preferences' to toggle on or off viewing of the political forum section.

We allow porn games, we allow political games, we have those blocked by default. Just do what you're already doing with controversial games on this platform, to this political forum section. If it works for one, I say it would finely work for the other.

As for 2)

I am fully allowed to download pornographic and political games on Steam. I can play games where I brutally murder in a realistic and horrible fashion human beings. These things would be a problem for Steam's reputation if they were shown by default, but they are not. Just as should be the case for a future politics forum section, these games are blocked from view unless you the user explicitly tell Steam to show them. Viewing such content is stressful and disgusting for many people, but if you say you want to see it, then you should be allowed to see it.

This political discussion would be limited insofar as racism and similar are blocked on this platform, and I would just bite the bullet and tolerate that such discussions surrounding racism would often be censored by this rule, even if the argument is only subjectively classified as racist even when it is not. That is a bullet worth biting, in exchange for having some degree of political discourse allowed on a great all-in-one platform like Steam.

Besides, we already have microphones allowed in online games where people ramble off whatever they want to, and we don't much care about it since they can largely be muted. Essentially, there's already politics in many mic chats, there's already politics in many games, there's already lots of controversial elements in games, and 100% of these are a non-issue because: it is YOUR CHOICE as a user to view this content that is often BY DEFAULT blocked. Since politics would also be your call to view or not on this platform like everything else, it's thus not a problem.

3) Solution???

Block politics-section threads that target publishers or games. This is not a pretty solution, but it's better than having no politics at all. If at a later time Steam believes the benefits outweigh the risks, this can always be enabled later. But, I think Steam would practically speaking have to block this specific topic in order to prevent publishers/games from leaving and in turn spawning negative PR for Valve. It is better to offer a limited feature of political discussion, than to block it completely.

Here's some benefits Steam would gain from having a politics section

1) You don't have to go to another forum just to have a political discussion, which is convenient.

Nuff said -nice not to have to open extra stuff if you don't have to.

2) If a government tries doing something that affects Steam, its publishers, its services, its games, or its users, a politics section would allow us to organize and act.

Steam, you as a corporation have to spend money lobbying or getting organizations on your side if you ever want to address such problems as things are. But, if you had a forum section that allowed politics, you could both make political posts on such matters and have it fit into the forum appropriately, AND users could quickly organized ORGANICALLY without you having to resort to tapping lobbyists or allies. Maybe I'm misrepresenting what Steam's exact techniques for addressing political issues are in a government, but I think either way it would be useful for them to have users organize on their own platform in an organic voluntary fashion.

3) Political analysis of games would be nice.

I'm buying these games, I'm using your forum, and many of these games have strong political undertones and ideas. Why should I be blocked from discussing these political themes? If the politics section is blocked by default and only has users that voluntarily agree to join it, then it stands to reason that this should not be an issue.

Now, if any of you find added issues to this idea, or believe there are upsides or other aspects worth mentioning, please 100% bring it up. I fully understand hate for politics, but at the same time, politics affects whether this platform exists and whether we as people exist, so it might be a topic worth allowing if a user opts into a politics section just as you can already opt into mature games.

[𒐪⎝ Epylector ⎠𒐪]

Początkowo opublikowane przez davidb11:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Steve The Wise Chimp:

Steam and video games should have nothing to do with politics. That would just added unnessary toxity to a peacfull envoronment.

Yes indeed.
Especially in today's climate.

I do grow weary of the common insistence politics in all circumstances must be preemptively treated as toxic and bad to discuss. Business, is politics. Telling people what they should or should not do, is politics. Running a game group, is politics. Pushing ideas and narratives in games that influence the users, involves politics.

The cheap catchall vague term that is toxicity seems to be used to automatically make anyone who sees it hate whatever it is attached to. I say there are people who can responsibly and enjoyably partake in political discussion and gain intelligent beneficial outcomes from it.

If other people cannot enjoy politics, they do not have to unblock the political forum section -or are we afraid of missing out on seeing the discussions? I detect a subtle fear of missing out, with all this insistence in this thread that users do not want a forum section hidden, as if to say users would naturally want to unhide it to see what is there. I dare say no critic here is without the mild curiosity of what we as users could come up with politically.

[Spawn of Totoro]

Początkowo opublikowane przez davidb11:

Well, you're never going to convince Valve to create political thread locations for you to post in.
Reversing the course of a river is literally easy than that. :P

That's not a joke, and it's happened before.

This.

Especially from a moderator perspective. No matter what reason, such threads lead to claims of being bias against X or Y political beliefs.

At least with a group, the user in the group can keep an eye on what is being said.

Początkowo opublikowane przez EpycWyn:

:spycon: I do grow weary of the common insistence politics in all circumstances must be preemptively treated as toxic and bad to discuss. Business, is politics. Telling people what they should or should not do, is politics. Running a game group, is politics. Pushing ideas and narratives in games that influence the users, involves politics.

:dip: The cheap catchall vague term that is toxicity seems to be used to automatically make anyone who sees it hate whatever it is attached to. I say there are people who can responsibly and enjoyably partake in political discussion and gain intelligent beneficial outcomes from it.

:zaglol: If other people cannot enjoy politics, they do not have to unblock the political forum section -or are we afraid of missing out on seeing the discussions? I detect a subtle fear of missing out, with all this insistence in this thread that users do not want a forum section hidden, as if to say users would naturally want to unhide it to see what is there. I dare say no critic here is without the mild curiosity of what we as users could come up with politically.

Unfortunately, that is all they have proven to be.

If people want to discuss politics, they can do so in private on create a group. No difference between a group or a specific forum aside from who moderates it.

You can have your opinion as to why, but I know I an not curious about politics at all. Too much of it on the new and even Yourtube.


This is one thing I can honestly say will never happen on Steam. No forum for it, nor will it be removed from the rules. As I said earlier, either discuss such matter in private or create a group. There are several already and groups have their own forums.

[𒐪⎝ Epylector ⎠𒐪]

Początkowo opublikowane przez davidb11:

You're a bit confused.
You can't actually complain about people not agreeing with your idea.

I'm sorry, but politics is not something people can discuss on this forum. It's literally not allowed for obvious reasons.

There are plenty of political forums on the internet.
Go there. Also, no, politics means a very specific thing, and it has nothing to do with businesses at all. EVER. You literally cannot claim that at all.
It's impossible.
Also, telling people what they should do or not do is rules and regulations. Which existed before politics did by 3000 years. :P
I suggest you look up the history of rules, or laws, as written sine Hannurabi's time if not before.

A unique perspective, certainly. Politics has nothing to do with business, EVER, and I cannot claim that at all? Rules and regulations are not political? I understand there's some connotations of politics only applying to a certain style of government, but that's a very narrow and inaccurate definition. Politics is nearly as broad as philosophy and could be argued to be involved in even the most existential of thoughts. I'm not going to try rules-lawyering the various denotative definitions of politics, but I have enough experience with the idea to understand this much broadness does apply.

I do not have any complaints about people who do not agree with the idea of having a political section. This is a suggestions section for new features, and this feature does involve changing Steam's forum rules, hence the explicit references to such. I am unsure why one would believe a feature change cannot be made due to current policies, in a forum section explicitly for such changes.

These obvious reasons for why a political forum section would not work, have been mentioned and addressed in the OP with real solutions that could be implemented, so I would implore a reason as to why said solutions are not workable or how they should be altered, as opposed to merely restating the problem. As mentioned in the OP, having to open another program or site to post about a subject is inconvenient, and not to mention breaks Steam's otherwise fairly all-encompassing ecosystem.

[Nx Machina]

The premise: Add option to create political threads

The answer:

Początkowo opublikowane przez EpycWyn:

I can't make a political thread, Steam expressly forbids political threads in their rules.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4045-USHJ-3810

"Content Rules
Do not post any content on Steam containing the following:

...

• Religious, political, and other “prone to huge arguments” threads"

[Aachen]

“There needs to be space for contentious topics” is effectively “dedicate more resources to moderation,” so the payoff would need to be quite a lot more than the convenience of a few users.

[𒐪⎝ Epylector ⎠𒐪]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Spawn of Totoro:

Początkowo opublikowane przez davidb11:

Well, you're never going to convince Valve to create political thread locations for you to post in.
Reversing the course of a river is literally easy than that. :P

That's not a joke, and it's happened before.

This.

Especially from a moderator perspective. No matter what reason, such threads lead to claims of being bias against X or Y political beliefs.

At least with a group, the user in the group can keep an eye on what is being said.

Początkowo opublikowane przez EpycWyn:

I do grow weary of the common insistence politics in all circumstances must be preemptively treated as toxic and bad to discuss. Business, is politics. Telling people what they should or should not do, is politics. Running a game group, is politics. Pushing ideas and narratives in games that influence the users, involves politics.

The cheap catchall vague term that is toxicity seems to be used to automatically make anyone who sees it hate whatever it is attached to. I say there are people who can responsibly and enjoyably partake in political discussion and gain intelligent beneficial outcomes from it.

If other people cannot enjoy politics, they do not have to unblock the political forum section -or are we afraid of missing out on seeing the discussions? I detect a subtle fear of missing out, with all this insistence in this thread that users do not want a forum section hidden, as if to say users would naturally want to unhide it to see what is there. I dare say no critic here is without the mild curiosity of what we as users could come up with politically.

Unfortunately, that is all they have proven to be.

If people want to discuss politics, they can do so in private on create a group. No difference between a group or a specific forum aside from who moderates it.

You can have your opinion as to why, but I know I an not curious about politics at all. Too much of it on the new and even Yourtube.


This is one thing I can honestly say will never happen on Steam. No forum for it, nor will it be removed from the rules. As I said earlier, either discuss such matter in private or create a group. There are several already and groups have their own forums.

Quite a dictating take on a complex subject many including those who work at Steam might have a differing opinion on, and I of course do not argue with you per Steam rules I cannot. I likewise state in a neutral observance with no argument or opinion whatsoever, that I have personally observed that the flow of time and shifting of social attitudes is something all human beings are benefited and humbled by, including our predictions thereof.

I am hopeful that thoughtful discussion will prevail on Steam.

[𒐪⎝ Epylector ⎠𒐪]

Początkowo opublikowane przez davidb11:

Stop trying to come up with all these ideas and solutions.
They don't matter at all. Because Valve will never agree with you.

You have lost this fight before you ever began.

Welcome to the suggestions and ideas section.

[Nx Machina]

Początkowo opublikowane przez EpycWyn:

Początkowo opublikowane przez davidb11:

Stop trying to come up with all these ideas and solutions.
They don't matter at all. Because Valve will never agree with you.

You have lost this fight before you ever began.

:papyruswacky::papyruswacky::papyruswacky:

Welcome to the suggestions and ideas section.

When your suggestion, idea is already written into forum rules with a big NO, what then?

A blog where you can have political debates with yourself - problem solved.

"I WANT" is not a suggestion or idea.

[Yzal]

Rules and Guidelines For Steam
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4045-USHJ-3810

Content Rules

Do not post any content on Steam containing the following:
...
Racism, discrimination
Abusive language, including swearing
Drugs and alcohol
Religious, political, and other “prone to huge arguments” threads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TyY_hx0qn0

[𒐪⎝ Epylector ⎠𒐪]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Nx Machina:

Początkowo opublikowane przez EpycWyn:

Welcome to the suggestions and ideas section.

When your suggestion, idea is already written into forum rules with a big NO, what then?

A blog where you can have political debates with yourself - problem solved.

"I WANT" is not a suggestion or idea.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lazy Dog:

Rules and Guidelines For Steam
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4045-USHJ-3810

Content Rules

Do not post any content on Steam containing the following:
...
Racism, discrimination
Abusive language, including swearing
Drugs and alcohol
Religious, political, and other “prone to huge arguments” threads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TyY_hx0qn0

As posted in the OP of the pinned thread for this forum sub-section's general rules:

"What this section is for, and what it is not
If you have come here to propose a suggestion for the Steam client, whether it be a new feature or an improvement of an existing one, or the Steam ecosystem, regarding policies , the store or the community features, you have come to the right place. Please consider searching before posting, as your suggestion may have already been brought up before."

It should go without saying that if I am suggesting a feature that goes against current policy, then it stands to reason said policy is also implicitly being suggested to change as well. But if that was not clear: I am suggesting there should be a hidden politics sub-section of the forums users can opt into, that unlike how current Steam policies apply to the rest of the site, would allow for political discussion. This would likely also allow religious discussion as well given their intertwined nature, which I suppose is worth noting.

Thank you for making it very clear that Steam's policies on this matter must be changed in order to implement this feature. This would qualify as a positive and negative, depending how much you love the status quo of Steam's forum rules as-worded.

[Yzal]

Początkowo opublikowane przez EpycWyn:

Thank you for making it very clear that Steam's policies on this matter must be changed in order to implement this feature.

That's never going to happen. Alright, keep dreaming then, i'm out.

[𒐪⎝ Epylector ⎠𒐪]

I think some of the initial obvious comments and negativity has been burned through by now, and now that all the core contentions not addressed in the OP have been addressed, such as "this is against existing policies" with "okay we should change them" and "this will never happen" with "time will tell," I am hopeful we can all now weigh and scrutinize the details of these thoughts, and at least try to play some degree of devil's advocacy in order to understand all aspects of this idea.

Let's try to generate some more thoughtful, logical discourse and serious meaningful weighing of pros and cons of a hidden optional political forum section, as well as discuss any other relevant subjects if desirable to conversation.

Thank you to everyone so far for providing an initial foundation of discussion, which I am hopeful other users can begin building a tower of logic on top of.

[Normal Happy Guy]

Początkowo opublikowane przez cSg|mc-Hotsauce:

Create a group and have at it.

:qr:

Why do you always put that barcode emoji

[Gus the Crocodile]

Początkowo opublikowane przez davidb11:

Do you not understand that you cannot suggest things that you know will never happen? I mean, you can, but it's a little odd.

Nobody knows this will never happen. Not even Valve.

People have predictions. That's fine, but they're just your personal ideas too, they're not actually worth anything.

[Mad Scientist]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Edifier:

Nah, this is a gaming forum. If you add politics you get the dumpster fire of Reddit where one side is allowed and other is being banned.

Reddit in a nutshell.

Początkowo opublikowane przez EpycWyn:

Politics has nothing to do with business, EVER, and I cannot claim that at all? Rules and regulations are not political? I understand there's some connotations of politics only applying to a certain style of government, but that's a very narrow and inaccurate definition. Politics is nearly as broad as philosophy and could be argued to be involved in even the most existential of thoughts. I'm not going to try rules-lawyering the various denotative definitions of politics, but I have enough experience with the idea to understand this much broadness does apply.

Well, given some of the steam-backed sales and what a lot of companies are doing this month, companies love politics when it serves to sell more stuff by appealing to more people. Even if they actually lose more than they gain.

Początkowo opublikowane przez Lazy Dog:

Religious, political, and other “prone to huge arguments” threads

Problem with that rule is it's often highly abused, anything with people disagreeing even civily can be locked for being 'prone to huge arguments' and users can be targeted, try saying something about mac vs windows, if a biased individual comes along enjoy your warning/temp ban for noting factual based reasons to/not to use one or the other, as example, when a user is asking which to use (seen it happen to people).

Początkowo opublikowane przez EpycWyn:

:resmile: Let's try to generate some more thoughtful, logical discourse and serious meaningful weighing of pros and cons of a hidden optional political forum section, as well as discuss any other relevant subjects if desirable to conversation.

You're going to find out fairly quickly who you're going to get in regard to being able to speak on any of your given topics, let alone some of the excessively questionable responses you'll receive which largely have little/nothing to do with it. Desirable conversation is somewhat hard to come by depending on the section(s) or ideas/suggestions.

I'm not against a political section, since again steam itself partakes in forms of politics, which brings up people questioning essentially a double standard. Overall, if people can be adults and handle discussions in a civil manner - which is usually in OT - then clearly a good amount of people can handle the material without becoming uncivil or otherwise crossing the point of no return.

The gist is many platforms censor based upon a one-sided party line, as basically re-quoted here:

Początkowo opublikowane przez Edifier:

If you add politics you get the dumpster fire of Reddit where one side is allowed and other is being banned.

So, even on here it would be up to any one source of power, of which users in the past have suggested if such is brought as an option, that new mods would essentially be chosen to lead that sections moderation due to needing moreover neutral parties that can let discussions go easily even when in disagreement.

So mods, steam staff, whoever would ultimately determine what could/couldn't be said, discussed/debated or otherwise, so without a proper team the section would collapse upon itself or become yet another echo chamber site in regard to politics.

You'd need higher end mods, and to be able to keep out the people that just legitimately exist to cause actual huge arguments (which is why Block exists). It could work, but it would also likely at one point or another, be a huge disaster like most sites unless splitting off into friends pages or group pages, which is what others have suggested since you can have any politics based group.

I'd be for it, but a user would also need to be able to keep their cool & stay relevant to the topic without going into absurdity - you'll see what I mean by that.

That being said, it's less of a headache for people that can't at all stand politics for staff let alone the completely hands-off people that just don't want it, so it'll unlikely ever become a thing. Even game-related threads in regard to individuals sharing concern with 'game journalist' writings have stuff locked for basically being political. Doubt it'll happen.

Looks like you've already hit both sides of the coin, and primarily seem against it regardless. At least it'll be interesting, should you choose to continue this discussion.