Etra 2020 年 12 月 21 日 上午 11:35
"Early Access" is a disease. "Selling" incomplete games is obscene.
I just saw that Bannerlord 2, a game in early access that I have already paid for, is having a sale. That I bought a game at full price that was later discounted doesn't bother me; what bothers me is the game is in the full marketing swing of sales incentives and seasonal swings one would only associate with a post-release marketing schedule.

"Early Access" has become the new "release it now, fix it later" that gamers hate about all the new releases. Cyberpunk 2077 is only the latest example of rushed development; if it hadn't "released" and instead was in "Early Access" - but still charging full price - would the game be any better? Any less complete? Any less buggy?

"Early Access" was an experiment and my judgment is that it is a failure. The result may have been an aid for smaller or solo teams to develop more ambitious projects than otherwise possible, but it has also created a new pseudo-release paradigm where developers are comfortable collecting profits on sub-standard products - under this pre-release fig leaf.

Reform or abolition of the "Early Access" program is needed. I propose that "Early Access" be no more costly than $10 and the "investor" be granted full release rights to the game when it does release. This cap on what an "Early Access" can cost would do two things:
a) deter a development team from cashing in on their incomplete project, which only harms the greater gaming ecosystem while
b) small or solo development teams that only ever had modest sales goals for their first release anyway still have a financing tool.
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正在显示第 166 - 180 条,共 755 条留言
Irene ❤ 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 4:26 
引用自 Crazy Tiger
If Steam would be a publisher, they'd have rights to the content or even to change the price. They don't.
Good point. You're right. But I thought that is what a store is suppose to do. A store is the one who have copyright to the purchased content or change the price they wish to sell.
最后由 Irene ❤ 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 5:14
Start_Running 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 4:34 
引用自 Irene💕
引用自 Count_Dandyman
Your first mistake there is calling Steam a publisher

Your second mistake is saying its not easy to resist being greedy because you don't want to accept the reality that self control is possible

Your third mistake is thinking Steam is the one setting prices when it isn't and acting like customers don't have the freedom
I thank you for trying to be negative, acting all high up while making a debate, but steam is more than just a game developer since they also publish.
Yes they do publish games, but the list of games they Publlish are
Dota 2, Artifact, The HL Franchaise, The l4d Franchaise, the Portal Franchaise,, and the CS:GO franchaise. That's it.

Like a comic book publisher that supplies paper
Comic Book publishers don't supply paper. They merely provide printing services. WHich the comic creator has to pay for.

It seems you don't quite understand the difference between a Developer, a Publisher, and a Retailer.

steam supplied servers, player reviews and more. The publisher therefore charged companies a big % of their product. They are not just a store because they don't purchase and download content from a publisher.
Yes But in this regard Steam is a retailer/Distributor. And what they are charging is a 30% commission. Which is actually less of a cut than most Brick and Mortar retailers take.

Next it is easily said than done to not support big and popular early access titles. Your claim that self control is possible only works in theory.
Yes, a theory based on the idea that a person has even a shred of willpower.

Of course a few people could do that,
Most people do that actually.

but when given a population of one million, can you ensure 0 people will stop buying early access?
No. Because of that 1 million there will be people who decide they want to buy it. The point is the decision to buy or not is made by everyone. Some decide to, ome decide not to. You can decide not to just as easily as you decide to. I mean I see many interesting early Access games and I don't buy them. Why? Because I don't like the idea of buying something as yet unfinished. Simple. Some people decide because the game doesn't look like something they want, some because the price isn't what they want.

You can decline to purchase tthe game until the game meets your standards.

You idea is good but that's only common sense logic that self control is possible. You're naïve and ignorant to believe it will work.
No they are just above the age of 5. Which is when most humans start learning self-control and self-modderation.

There is a big marketing campaign and many other factors. Similar to psychology elements in a loot box. "Oh as long as we don't buy it" yes, we can do it, but not everybody can do it.
You do realize that in most games the majority of lloot boxes and such are purchased by less than 50% of the playerbase right? You're basically doing 'The devil made me do it' as an excuse.

Finally I did not say steam is the one setting prices. I said users can decide if an early access game is worth the price and they have freedom.
Yes they can. and many do.

I have already ended my debate, yet you embarrass yourself for no reason by trying hard to roast people, fighting on the most mediocre and pointless details, all along giving such common sense, childish ideas to support your claim.
Yes because self-control is such a clidish....you know I take that back. such a mentality totally explains the crushinglevels of credit card debt in siome countries. People having no willpower of concept of self-control....also explains the obesity epidemic come to think of it


It's as if you think nobody has common sense here.
Well you're not actuually dispelling that notion.

Irene ❤ 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 4:37 
Let's not debate on common sense trivial matters. Topic is about early access games being toxic, yet we spend time arguing about whether steam is a publisher or a store.

To me a publisher is someone who prepares books, music, media or games to sell. It's just that simple. Who cares about their agreement with the content maker. Maybe they can pay the content maker money to publish and profit, maybe content maker pays them to publish, Maybe they can decide on the price base on the game's popularity and data analytics. Maybe content maker can decide on the price. it's all up to themselves. Things can change. The publisher's job scope is to deliver and publish content.

I'll agree to disagree and stop discussing about those small stuff.
最后由 Irene ❤ 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 5:10
( ( < < <🤖> > > ) ) 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 4:42 
What is the role of a publisher?
Publishers set the editorial and commercial direction for companies that publish books, newspapers, magazines and digital content. They make decisions about the markets their companies will serve and the type of content they will offer their audience.
Irene ❤ 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 4:44 
引用自 davidb11
Then you have no clue what a publisher actually is and aren't being able to be taken seriously because of that.
You guys know what a publisher is. Please have my Full respect.
最后由 Irene ❤ 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 4:53
Crazy Tiger 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 5:12 
引用自 Irene💕
Let's not debate on common sense trivial matters. Topic is about early access games being toxic, yet we spend time arguing about whether steam is a publisher or a store.
If you don't want to debate on common sense trivial matters, the whole Early Access debate is completely unnecessary.
Irene ❤ 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 5:16 
Yes you're right. I was wrong that steam is a publisher.
Steam is a store.
The store should not sell broken things early, they are not a fully functioning product. It can reduce the credibility of the store to sell broken things.
最后由 Irene ❤ 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 5:21
Brian9824 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 5:23 
引用自 Irene💕
Yes you're right. I was wrong that steam is a publisher.
Steam is a store.
The store should not sell broken things early, they are not a fully functioning product. It can reduce the credibility of the store to sell broken things.

Actually all the EA games are playable, that is one of the requirement of EA games. The game might be buggy and incomplete but its playable.

Again though, if you don't like EA games then just uncheck the box on your preferences to see them. No one HAS to buy them and you can filter them all out of the store if you don't want them.
Crazy Tiger 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 5:34 
引用自 Irene💕
Yes you're right. I was wrong that steam is a publisher.
Steam is a store.
The store should not sell broken things early, they are not a fully functioning product. It can reduce the credibility of the store to sell broken things.
Broken implies not working as it should. Early Access games aren't marketed as a fully functioning product. They're unfinished games that may or may not change. That's exactly what you get when you purchase it.
cinedine 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 5:42 
引用自 Irene💕
引用自 Count_Dandyman
Your first mistake there is calling Steam a publisher

Your second mistake is saying its not easy to resist being greedy because you don't want to accept the reality that self control is possible

Your third mistake is thinking Steam is the one setting prices when it isn't and acting like customers don't have the freedom
I thank you for trying to be negative, acting all high up while making a debate and using such disrespectful words, but steam is more than just a game developer since they also publish. They published half life games. New developers require their platform to publish their games. Like a comic book publisher that supplies paper, steam supplied servers, player reviews and more. The publisher therefore charged companies a big % of their product. They are not just a store because they don't purchase and set a price to sell games. They work as a publisher and content makers can decide a price.

Nope. They are a distributor and service provider. There are very few games that Valve published.
A publisher has a different meaning in function. Mainly that they purchase the publishing rights for a game. Valve only has the distribution rights. One of the main differences is indeed being able to set a price. Others are being able to localise or to demand changes. Both of which Valve also can't do.
Start_Running 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 5:43 
引用自 Irene💕
Let's not debate on common sense trivial matters. Topic is about early access games being toxic, yet we spend time arguing about whether steam is a publisher or a store.
Except that it clearlly isn't and the arguments you and others have used to make that assertion only point to your own lack of self-control/discipline.

Those who want, can buy, Those who don't see it as worth their mony won't. Everyone is warned in the most explicit way possiible prior to purchase. if you don't like it. DOn't buuy it but for the most part I've only seen the positives. It has allowed many stekllar games to pop out and given people the ability enjoy these games while they are in development if they so choose. It's an option for the consumer. That's all.

To me a publisher is someone who prepares books, music, media or games to sell.
Then your understanding of what a publlisher is is flawed. A publisher is someone who pays for the right to control the distribution of something. That's it. They can be considered akin to high level investors.

It's just that simple. Who cares about their agreement with the content maker.
Someone who actually desires a greater/accurate understanding of things. You're defining a word in a way you want but it is not the correct definition ergo any assertion you make based upon that flawed understanding is aurtomaticallly incorrect.

Maybe they can pay the content maker money to publish and profit, maybe content maker pays them to publish, Maybe they can decide on the price base on the game's popularity and data analytics. Maybe content maker can decide on the price. it's all up to themselves. Things can change. The publisher's job scope is to deliver and publish content.
their job is to publish. Delivery is not automatically part of that. And by publish it basically just means they invest and collect from the game's revenue. That's all. Anything else is a s you say, subject to change and negotiation.

I'll agree to disagree and stop discussing about those small stuff.
This is basically not about agreement or disagreement. this is just about you being objectively incorrect.
Irene ❤ 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 6:04 
引用自 cinedine
Nope. They are a distributor and service provider.
Yes I know. It's because I see the meaning of "publisher" as a comic book publisher. A printing service and also a delivering to store service. In addition I don't recognize a nobody who made mediocre games a publisher. I see them as editors and valve as a publisher for them.

You guys see publisher as the company that makes the game and I agree with it.
最后由 Irene ❤ 编辑于; 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 7:18
Brian9824 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 6:08 
引用自 Irene💕
引用自 cinedine
Nope. They are a distributor and service provider.
Yes I know. It's because I see the meaning of "publisher" as a comic book publisher. A printing service and also a delivering to store service. There are stores selling games and most have steam support by Valve as publisher, so I could not call Valve a store and also can't recognize mediocre games made by a nobody as a publisher.

You guys see publisher as the company that makes the game and I agree with it.

I mean really as its been said a publisher serves two main roles.

1. To provide financing in exchange for profits
2. To distribute and handle the deals with stores to sell the games

The publisher isn't the one who makes the game at all, but they might have project managers working with the developers to keep an eye on things and to help the developers as needed.
🦜Cloud Boy🦜 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 6:15 
Steam CAN NOT decide game's prices. Steam is like eBay or Amazon where other people (Developers or Publishers) sale their products. Steam juts takes 30% cut from them according to an agreement with them, for maintaining Steam's employees and online servers costs.
Start_Running 2020 年 12 月 31 日 上午 6:20 
引用自 Irene💕
引用自 cinedine
Nope. They are a distributor and service provider.
Yes I know. It's because I see the meaning of "publisher" as a comic book publisher. A printing service and also a delivering to store service. In addition I don't recognize a nobody who made mediocre games a publisher. I see them as editors and valve as a publisher for them.

You guys see publisher as the company that makes the game and I agree with it.
Hardly. That's the developer. The developer and publisher can be the same entity. see -self-publishing.



引用自 brian9824
引用自 Irene💕
Yes I know. It's because I see the meaning of "publisher" as a comic book publisher. A printing service and also a delivering to store service. There are stores selling games and most have steam support by Valve as publisher, so I could not call Valve a store and also can't recognize mediocre games made by a nobody as a publisher.

You guys see publisher as the company that makes the game and I agree with it.

I mean really as its been said a publisher serves two main roles.

1. To provide financing in exchange for profits
2. To distribute and handle the deals with stores to sell the games

The publisher isn't the one who makes the game at all, but they might have project managers working with the developers to keep an eye on things and to help the developers as needed.

Number 2 isn't always a given. Sure if they consider you to be top talent they'll gladly provide marketing and distribution...for a fee.
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发帖日期: 2020 年 12 月 21 日 上午 11:35
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