Steam reviews need a five star rating scale.

[FOXDUDE69]

The simplistic thumbs up or thumbs down thing can be very misleading. Games aren't just good or bad, there's a gradient there and I know you can explain your rating in the text but when you go to a store page and you see an "overwhelmingly positive" rating of 98%, you might think it's the hottest thing since Jessica Alba, only to buy the game and realize it's just a 4 out of 5 game.

But that's not the biggest problem, the biggest problem is when you have a game that is overall good but has some serious issues. Or a game that's just "good enough" for the price. The reviewer is forced to pick from positive or negative rating and since the experience was overall positive, they pick positive which usually results in games having a "very positive" rating, sitting around 85% when in reality it's a 2.5 or 3 out of 5 game.

The absolute worst scenario is one like Fallout 3's which is left in an abysmal state because of steam's lack of standards and Bethesda's let-the-fans-fix-it attitude resulting in a game that doesn't even launch without being modded by the paying costumer and requires further work to run well. Every new player needs to go through this process but the game is real good after you you spend a good amount of time fixing it, so they leave positive reviews... on a game that doesn't even launch. And it's sitting right now with a "mostly positive" rank on steam.

A simple five star rating scale would help a lot and provide a much more honest and accurate average rating.

Thank you for reading.

[Walach]

I see no problems with that suggestion. :)

I remember reading something, not a study sadly, about how there shouldn't be a middle ground for any sort of grade as most will have no special interest or opinion and end up placing their points in the middle.

Doesn't mean there shouldn't be a middle ground but it was fun reading it.

I read some of the responses here and would like to ask anyone that:
What would happen if this was implemented?

Ohh and the system we have now can also be seen as a point score of 1-2. ;P

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

And the way you've broken up your own sentence indicates that your opinion is the opposite of "neutral reviews are worthless".

Arguing for arguing's sake.

NOT MINE - neutral reviews are worthless as in "yeah, umm, maybe".

Seeing the way you're insisting on your own wording really explains why you had a bunch of posts deleted from earlier in the thread where you kept trying to insist, contrary to reason, that OP was actually here to talk about Fallout 3, while the rest of us were discussing rating systems.

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

The point of this thread is not to gain your approval anyway; this point of this thread is to talk about a 5-star rating scale. You'll note that cinedine, Start_Running, Foxdude, and I have all been talking about this.

And the point of this thread is not to gain approval at all, everyone can decide for themselves.

Actually, the point of this thread is to suggest a 5-star rating scale and discuss the suggestion, as indicated by OP.

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

It is relevant to you. Who you are and yet you cannot see it.

You have strange ideas of who other people are and why they do what they do.

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

You are only looking for affirmation and cannot accept others can say no and disagree with you.

Your idea of acceptance means no longer responding to you and letting you have the last word, except that's not how real life works.

cinedine původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

You're making the mistake of thinking that I'm only looking at one review.
There's nothing magical that makes any one review informative.
But, the category is more likely to contain informative reviews, in aggregate.

Were did I say you do?
If you are looking for multiple reviews already to get an overview, you can just as well view positive and negative ones. And repeating (once again ...): a neutral review is likely to not inform you about deal breaking problems. And they are not magically more likely to be more informative. That's pure assumption on your part.

A deal-breaker for someone else isn't necessarily going to be a deal-breaker for me. In fact, sometimes a deal-breaker for someone else might be a very attractive feature for me.

A neutral rating is more likely to have an overview covering both the good and the bad, because when given the option people prefer to represent their opinion using a more accurate option, and for people who do have mixed feelings about a game that would be the go-to option for them. I'd like to be able to read what they have to say.

While it's possible to spam up a neutral review option with off-topic reviews, it's already possible to spam up the positive and negative options that currently exist; this is not a problem unique to a neutral option.

[Nx Machina]

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Seeing the way you're insisting on your own wording really explains why you had a bunch of posts deleted from earlier in the thread where you kept trying to insist, contrary to reason, that OP was actually here to talk about Fallout 3, while the rest of us were discussing rating systems.

1 Post and the fact it mentioned "loon" etc, etc, as posted the OP. You even mention loon on the comment you left for FoxDude.

Of course ignore the fact of the OP getting banned and a number of their posts getting deleted or the fact they deleted their previous thread, the one I linked in Post #92 but of course they had nothing to hide. Good job I quoted the OP post.

Post #92 - https://ibb.co/52zPvVB

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Actually, the point of this thread is to suggest a 5-star rating scale and discuss the suggestion, as indicated by OP.

And it has been discussed and you do not like the answers given by myself, Cinedine, Start_Running and others.

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

You have strange ideas of who other people are and why they do what they do.

And you do not? I disagree.

https://ibb.co/mTpmnSP

From the image:

I noticed you mentioned you hadn't seen that "loon" before, so for what it's worth, he's gone under at least a couple other names before.
Anyhow, you can always check his post history too. This isn't the first time he's been involved in arguing in...lunatic ways.

Or:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

And you have used your illogical methods of arguing in other threads where we have encountered each other before.

My, my what a tangled web we weave when we set out to deceive.

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Your idea of acceptance means no longer responding to you and letting you have the last word, except that's not how real life works.

You always like to reference the real world whilst ignoring it is Valve's platform.

Oh! the irony.

[cinedine]

What's the point of having a discussion if two comments further everthing said before is forgotten and the same points are brought up time and time again. Counterpoints and examples completely ignored.

That's the reason why I stayed away from it for some time. At some point it will just turn into a few posters disecting each post and starting to argue individual sentences and just try to write the longest post, going in circles until the thread gets locked.

3/5. Meh.

[Start_Running]

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

cinedine původně napsal:

Were did I say you do?
If you are looking for multiple reviews already to get an overview, you can just as well view positive and negative ones. And repeating (once again ...): a neutral review is likely to not inform you about deal breaking problems. And they are not magically more likely to be more informative. That's pure assumption on your part.

A deal-breaker for someone else isn't necessarily going to be a deal-breaker for me. In fact, sometimes a deal-breaker for someone else might be a very attractive feature for me.

A neutral rating is more likely to have an overview covering both the good and the bad,

Citation needed. I've seen plent enough "It A'ight" reviews out there.
Also what does it matter if a piece of information is phrased as a sellling point, or deal breaker. The information is still there so again,. There's nothing in a Neutral Review that couldn't be said just as effectivey in a positive or negative review. Especially since at the end of the day all of them wil be bound by the same character limits .

because when given the option people prefer to represent their opinion using a more accurate option,

Accurate to their actual opinion, or accurate to how they wish their opinion to be perceived. There is a small but very important difference between the two.

and for people who do have mixed feelings about a game that would be the go-to option for them. I'd like to be able to read what they have to say.

More than likely except as has been stated and is sellf-evidentt in the system. Vave doesn't care about your feelings. They just want to know if you think its worth recommending. Is Neutral enough to be worthy of recommendation for you? Then the answer is an easy Yes. If it's Not, then the Answer is No.

How you feel, and whether or not you recommend are not intrinsically linked. As said. You can recommend something you dislike, and decline to recommend something you enjoy.

[FOXDUDE69]

Walach původně napsal:

I read some of the responses here and would like to ask anyone that:
What would happen if this was implemented?

The steam community would simply adopt it because it's a simple system, universally understood and allows for a bit more options than the binary system we have now.

More importantly, we'd see a bit of a shift on the steam store when you sort it by user reviews, possibly providing a bit more visibility to promising indie with good games.

Polarizing games might look a bit different too and their "mixed" ratio might change to the side of the scale it more accurately deserves since users have a wider degree of options when scoring it.

Thank you for reading!

And everyone else, thank you for keeping the discussion going so that more people see my post!

[Nx Machina]

Foxdude původně napsal:

The steam community would simply adopt it

You do not speak on behalf of the community and several others including myself have not adopted your idea.

[FOXDUDE69]

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

Foxdude původně napsal:

The steam community would simply adopt it

You do not speak on behalf of the community and several others including myself have not adopted your idea.

Several others? You mean the same 2 guys who act like a 5 point scale is too complicated?
Every new person who comes into this thread agrees with me.
And yes they'd simply adopt it, the same way they already adopted it for rating mods right here on steam.

[cinedine]

Foxdude původně napsal:

Walach původně napsal:

I read some of the responses here and would like to ask anyone that:
What would happen if this was implemented?

The steam community would simply adopt it because it's a simple system, universally understood and allows for a bit more options than the binary system we have now.

More importantly, we'd see a bit of a shift on the steam store when you sort it by user reviews, possibly providing a bit more visibility to promising indie with good games.

Polarizing games might look a bit different too and their "mixed" ratio might change to the side of the scale it more accurately deserves since users have a wider degree of options when scoring it.

Thank you for reading!

And everyone else, thank you for keeping the discussion going so that more people see my post!

Whishful thinking.
What happens with the current reviews?
What will be different? You so far failed to explain to me Steam's 78 % recommendations for FO 3 is any different to metacritics 7.8 user score.

But hey, why take anything form the last 300 posts into account when you can just repeat yourself over and over.

[Nx Machina]

Foxdude původně napsal:

Several others? You mean the same 2 guys who act like a 5 point scale is too complicated?
Every new person who comes into this thread agrees with me.
And yes they'd simply adopt it, the same way they already adopted it for rating mods right here on steam.

We are part of the community you supposedly speak for.

5 point scale? Only need two. - 5 star buy - 1 star avoid or the current system

Recommended - Not Recommended.

Fallout 3 - 22,717 Mostly Positive reviews and Positive reviews 22,954

Working as intended.


They won't adopt it because Valve will not implement it.

[Gallifrey - CSSC Gaming Founder]

Tento komentář čeká na kontrolu naším automatizovaným systémem. Dočasně je tedy skryt, dokud si neověříme, že nezahrnuje žádný nevhodný obsah (např. odkazy na webové stránky, které chtějí ukrást přihlašovací údaje uživatelů).

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

Of course ignore the fact of the OP getting banned and a number of their posts getting deleted

Of course ignore the fact that your posts got deleted as well

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

Post #92 - https://ibb.co/52zPvVB

It's amusing how you have me ignored yet you responded anyway.

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

And it has been discussed and you do not like the answers given by myself, Cinedine, Start_Running and others.

And those answers are just opinions, as is yours.

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

And you have used your illogical methods of arguing in other threads where we have encountered each other before.

Indeed you have, as anyone can see by checking my and your post histories.

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

Your idea of acceptance means no longer responding to you and letting you have the last word, except that's not how real life works.

You always like to reference the real world whilst ignoring it is Valve's platform.

Valve's platform exists in the real world.

Start_Running původně napsal:

Citation needed. I've seen plent enough "It A'ight" reviews out there.

And there are plenty of bad reviews already, even without a neutral option, and that includes meaningless ones in the same vein as your favorite "I am COmmander Shepard" example.

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

Also what does it matter if a piece of information is phrased as a sellling point, or deal breaker. The information is still there so again,. There's nothing in a Neutral Review that couldn't be said just as effectivey in a positive or negative review. Especially since at the end of the day all of them wil be bound by the same character limits .

And the character limit is far higher than the 22-character limit you once trotted out.

Yes, the same information could be said...but where is a reader more likely to find these details about the game? Which provides the information more efficiently? In my experience, in the middle.

If you don't want to use the middle option, you'd still be free to use the outer two options anyway. So your way of doing things wouldn't be disrupted by a neutral option.

Start_Running původně napsal:

because when given the option people prefer to represent their opinion using a more accurate option,

Accurate to their actual opinion, or accurate to how they wish their opinion to be perceived. There is a small but very important difference between the two.

You accuse people of dishonesty by claiming to know what they are really thinking when you don't even know who they are. The dishonesty lies with yourself.

Start_Running původně napsal:

Vave doesn't care about your feelings.

And the point isn't the feelings; it's about giving reviewers a way to properly categorize their reviews and readers a way to find the information they need to make purchase decisions more efficiently.

You can keep rephrasing over and over again that it's not about feelings, but you're missing the point.

Shogun Blade původně napsal:

Foxdude původně napsal:

The steam community would simply adopt it

You do not speak on behalf of the community and several others including myself have not adopted your idea.

You have not adopted it because you can't even choose it right now, since it doesn't exist yet.
You trot out a tautology as if it represents meaningful information.

Gallifrey - CSSC Gaming Founder původně napsal:

Also I find Tripadvisor and Amazon's five point scale more informative than Steam's binary system.

Indeed.

[FOXDUDE69]

cinedine původně napsal:

What will be different? You so far failed to explain to me Steam's 78 % recommendations for FO 3 is any different to metacritics 7.8 user score.

Fallout 3 GOTY sells extremely well on GOG and it's not uncommon to see it among GOG's best sellers. There is absolutely no way for us to know just exactly how many of the Fallout 3 reviews on Metacritic come from GOG users, who enjoy a version of the game that is in a much better state compared to the Steam version.

Therefor, if Steam's score is 78% and the Metacritic score is also 7.8, this actually proves that the Steam score is inflated because it enjoys the same score as a score partly obtained from a users that have a version of the game that works out of the box and is more stable without the user having to do anything.

Thank you for proving my point.

[Nx Machina]

@ Quint

My, my still responding. Take your own advice.

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

]Your idea of acceptance means no longer responding to you and letting you have the last word, except that's not how real life works.

I stated on another thread "no more" with regard to that thread not any others

Quint the Alligator Snapper původně napsal:

You have not adopted it because you can't even choose it right now, since it doesn't exist yet.
You trot out a tautology as if it represents meaningful information..

Neither can you choose the client version, disabling auto-updates, list view etc but hey you keep on believing whilst in the meantime I'll sit back and say I told you so. After all when I post an image of me having 16 years service you claim it is fake and yet I would expect nothing less from you.


You always seem to confuse a suggestion with the adoption of an idea. Remember no one needs to agree as freewill trumps rhetoric every single time.

[Start_Running]

Tento komentář čeká na kontrolu naším automatizovaným systémem. Dočasně je tedy skryt, dokud si neověříme, že nezahrnuje žádný nevhodný obsah (např. odkazy na webové stránky, které chtějí ukrást přihlašovací údaje uživatelů).