Steam reviews need a five star rating scale.

[FOXDUDE69]

The simplistic thumbs up or thumbs down thing can be very misleading. Games aren't just good or bad, there's a gradient there and I know you can explain your rating in the text but when you go to a store page and you see an "overwhelmingly positive" rating of 98%, you might think it's the hottest thing since Jessica Alba, only to buy the game and realize it's just a 4 out of 5 game.

But that's not the biggest problem, the biggest problem is when you have a game that is overall good but has some serious issues. Or a game that's just "good enough" for the price. The reviewer is forced to pick from positive or negative rating and since the experience was overall positive, they pick positive which usually results in games having a "very positive" rating, sitting around 85% when in reality it's a 2.5 or 3 out of 5 game.

The absolute worst scenario is one like Fallout 3's which is left in an abysmal state because of steam's lack of standards and Bethesda's let-the-fans-fix-it attitude resulting in a game that doesn't even launch without being modded by the paying costumer and requires further work to run well. Every new player needs to go through this process but the game is real good after you you spend a good amount of time fixing it, so they leave positive reviews... on a game that doesn't even launch. And it's sitting right now with a "mostly positive" rank on steam.

A simple five star rating scale would help a lot and provide a much more honest and accurate average rating.

Thank you for reading.

[Tito Shivan]

Originally posted by Konran:

It doesn't have to do with sales at all. And yes, it's working

In a totally different scope. GOG doesn't either hold the volume of games Steam do nor the volume of users.

Just because something works at a small scale doesn't mean is going to keep working once you scale things up.

[jaromeog2010]

I agree that the positive or negative rating is biased because a game could be good but have issues and if you are a fan of the genre or series you are most likely to rate a game positive even if it has bugs just based on bias and the fact that it's either a yes or no.

Now if you have someone who wants to try a new game in a genre that they dont have much experience in or a genre that they have not liked based on past experience, the 5 star scale could have some biased results as well. Someone who loves the genre/series might rate a game "5 stars" even if it is really good but buggy and has sentiment that those bugs will get fixed. Well their 5 star rating might be a 3 star rating to that someone else that is not familiar or experienced with that genre/series of games.

All in all, I mean I still would prefer a 5 star scale considering the people who would review a game are most likely to eliminate biases (Troll ratings would probably have minuscule weight in a steam rating... I would hope) and it would still be better for the newbie or discouraged gamer of the particular genre/series of that game.

[LizardWizard]

Originally posted by Konran:

Originally posted by Edifier:

A 5 star system will only give more power to those who hate the game as they'll rate it 1 star out of 5.

Then we have the fanboys which will rate it 5/5 stars.

It is not a good system.

It works on GOG

Most definitely, you are super right! It also works for Amazon and Ebay, which deals with more and different types of goods. Netflix had it and they changed it, and people complained. It's too arbitrary to make or break a platform, but 5 stars? Just the right amount of nuance.

A most excellent suggestion!

[FOXDUDE69]

Originally posted by Konran:

Originally posted by Edifier:

A 5 star system will only give more power to those who hate the game as they'll rate it 1 star out of 5.

Then we have the fanboys which will rate it 5/5 stars.

It is not a good system.

It works on GOG

Just like Fallout 3!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObpcGNCU944

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Originally posted by Konran:

It works on GOG

And GoG is no where near as popular or successful as Steam...So is it really working?

It is, because it is getting information across, and also because Steam's success is not at all due to its review system, but rather, and much more simply, its not insisting on DRM-free and its having a huge existing customer base.

Again, don't confuse correlation with causation. But of course you don't actually care about good arguing; you only care to bat down what other people say.

Originally posted by Tito Christmas:

Originally posted by Konran:

It doesn't have to do with sales at all. And yes, it's working

In a totally different scope. GOG doesn't either hold the volume of games Steam do nor the volume of users.

Just because something works at a small scale doesn't mean is going to keep working once you scale things up.

You cite this general principle, but how does this principle apply? The only problem with scaling up a 5-star rating system is that it takes at least 3 bits to store the rating, rather than 1, but the storage of review ratings pales in size comparison to the storage of game data anyway.

Originally posted by LizardMizard:

Originally posted by Konran:

It works on GOG

Most definitely, you are super right! It also works for Amazon and Ebay, which deals with more and different types of goods. Netflix had it and they changed it, and people complained. It's too arbitrary to make or break a platform, but 5 stars? Just the right amount of nuance.

A most excellent suggestion!

Yeah, a 5 star rating system is pretty much the standard rating system for a huge variety of things. Steam is actually an odd one out in this regard.

The 5-star system is gonna outlive Steam anyway.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by Foxdude:

Just like Fallout 3!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObpcGNCU944

Just like it does on Steam with live running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyupHUuCx2Y

or Post #1

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Fallout 3 in fact launches very fine without modding. I tried it recently on my Windows 10 rig, without any modding, it works.

[Nx Machina]

Originally posted by Quint the Alligator Snapper:

It is, because it is getting information across,

So are well written Steam reviews with pros and cons.

You WANT a 5 star system or a neutral option so any other system is bad in your eyes.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Quint the Alligator Snapper:

]Yeah, a 5 star rating system is pretty much the standard rating system for a huge variety of things. Steam is actually an odd one out in this regard.

The 5-star system is gonna outlive Steam anyway.

Out-dated iodeas do stick around. I mean 'Flat Earth' is still a thing. Literally thousands of years acter people said. "Nah, its not."

Did you ever consider that the reason other paces still use it is because it is:

A) Being used in a different context.
B) Because its Expected.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by Shogun Blade:

Originally posted by Quint the Alligator Snapper:

It is, because it is getting information across,

So are well written Steam reviews with pros and cons.

A neutral option makes well-written reviews easier to find.

Originally posted by Shogun Blade:

You WANT a 5 star system or a neutral option so any other system is bad in your eyes.

And you DON'T WANT a 5 star system or a neutral option those two are bad in your eyes.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Originally posted by Quint the Alligator Snapper:

]Yeah, a 5 star rating system is pretty much the standard rating system for a huge variety of things. Steam is actually an odd one out in this regard.

The 5-star system is gonna outlive Steam anyway.

Out-dated iodeas do stick around.

Just because an idea is old does not mean it is bad.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Did you ever consider that the reason other paces still use it is because it is:

A) Being used in a different context.
B) Because its Expected.

Your reasoning relies on postulating, incorrectly, that all those other stores either don't sell videogames or don't properly run their business and Steam is the only one that sells videogames properly.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Quint the Alligator Snapper:

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Out-dated iodeas do stick around.

Just because an idea is old does not mean it is bad.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Did you ever consider that the reason other paces still use it is because it is:

A) Being used in a different context.
B) Because its Expected.

Your reasoning relies on postulating, incorrectly, that all those other stores either don't sell videogames or don't properly run their business and Steam is the only one that sells videogames properly.

No That's just your usual strawmanning. And not understanding how businesses work. Physical media is different than digital media in regards to certain factors. and One core context YOu like tio ignore is simply this. Those stores are asking different questions ergo, differing response methods. They have decided what questions yied the best results or are the most convenient (in the case of amazon). So has Steam. Your problem with Steam is that they are not asking you the question you want to answer.


Just accept it. Vave doesn't care how much you like or dislike the game. Just whether or not you consider it worth recommending. If the level of thought required to make that decision is too much for you... then you are free to post your review on sites with Llesser standards.. Llike GoG. I mean they let you review stuff without even owning it there ;)

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by Start_Running:

No That's just your usual strawmanning. And not understanding how businesses work. Physical media is different than digital media in regards to certain factors. and One core context YOu like tio ignore is simply this. Those stores are asking different questions ergo, differing response methods. They have decided what questions yied the best results or are the most convenient (in the case of amazon). So has Steam. Your problem with Steam is that they are not asking you the question you want to answer.

You have proven my point that you simply postulate that Steam does the optimal thing, and you have the gall to claim "not understanding how businesses work" while neglecting the reality that it's not even possible to optimize such a decision to the precision you suggest.

It's simply different stores doing different things, and if you claim that those other stores are inapplicable, then so is YouTube using a 2-point system.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Just accept it. Vave doesn't care how much you like or dislike the game.

This suggestion isn't about whether you say Valve cares.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

then you are free to post your review on sites with Llesser standards.. Llike GoG. I mean they let you review stuff without even owning it there ;)

Again using the strawman of claiming "lesser standards" simply because they are different from Steam. I guess you haven't used that one in a while now.

Also, your smarm is showing again.

[Start_Running]

Originally posted by Quint the Alligator Snapper:

Originally posted by Start_Running:

No That's just your usual strawmanning. And not understanding how businesses work. Physical media is different than digital media in regards to certain factors. and One core context YOu like tio ignore is simply this. Those stores are asking different questions ergo, differing response methods. They have decided what questions yied the best results or are the most convenient (in the case of amazon). So has Steam. Your problem with Steam is that they are not asking you the question you want to answer.

You have proven my point that you simply postulate that Steam does the optimal thing, and you have the gall to claim "not understanding how businesses work" while neglecting the reality that it's not even possible to optimize such a decision to the precision you suggest.

It's simply different stores doing different things, and if you claim that those other stores are inapplicable, then so is YouTube using a 2-point system.

They are doing it based upon their analysis and understanding of their environment, their position in it, and their goals. Ergo they see it as the most optimal solution. Unless you're saying Valve is just making decisions by picking ideas out of a hat. Face it. Valve has based their actions on information only they know....though its fair to assume that they believe their decisions to be aligned with their goals and that they keep doing it means they have not (in alll the years they have been doing it) seen anything to make them reconsider. And its not like they haven't tweaked the system in all that time.

Different stores doing different things, and having different goals and environments. However it is noteworthy when stores with similar goals and environmentstend to have similar patterns to their behaviour.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Just accept it. Vave doesn't care how much you like or dislike the game.

This suggestion isn't about whether you say Valve cares.

No. But the system is based on what Valve cares about. not what you and a few others want.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

then you are free to post your review on sites with Llesser standards.. Llike GoG. I mean they let you review stuff without even owning it there ;)

Again using the strawman of claiming "lesser standards" simply because they are different from Steam. I guess you haven't used that one in a while now.

Also, your smarm is showing again.

Having fewer criteria equates to lesser standards. The criteria for getting a C on a paper are fewer than than Getting an A on a paper,. Ergo the Standards for C are Lesser than the Standards for A. Maths. I Say Lesser standards with GoG because there are fewer criteria for GoG than Steam. You don't have to make a decision on recommendation, you don't need to manage a specific play time before reviewing, you don't even need to verifiably own the game to leave a review. Those are 3 lless criteria than Steam, which makes for a lower standard. WHich is why No one talks about GoG score. They tak about Steam review scores though.

Steam has higher standards for their review than GoG. Pllain and simpe. Which is great for you. Y'all can just go write your reviews there and bask in the gory of the 5 point scale....

[cinedine]

Originally posted by Quint the Alligator Snapper:

Originally posted by Shogun Blade:

So are well written Steam reviews with pros and cons.

A neutral option makes well-written reviews easier to find.

How so?
Or you are once again implying only neutral reviews are well written?

Seriously, this argumentation s circling around more than a spin top.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by Start_Running:

They are doing it based upon their analysis and understanding of their environment, their position in it, and their goals. Ergo they see it as the most optimal solution.

And you've presented none of that analysis anyway; just your own armchair speculation about their reasoning, Valve and otherwise. All you've done with this reasoning is to postulate that businesses are operating optimally and thus don't need to change.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Unless you're saying Valve is just making decisions by picking ideas out of a hat.

You conveniently forgot to mention that they adapted this out of a recommendation system without any status choices at all.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

Different stores doing different things, and having different goals and environments. However it is noteworthy when stores with similar goals and environmentstend to have similar patterns to their behaviour.

Like how video game stores use 5 star rating systems, except Steam.

Originally posted by Start_Running:

The criteria for getting a C on a paper are fewer than than Getting an A on a paper,. Ergo the Standards for C are Lesser than the Standards for A. Maths.

Letter grades are not maths, and you once again have gone grandstanding on an example that is, amazingly, neither related to Steam nor even GOG.

[Quint the Alligator Snapper]

Originally posted by cinedine:

Originally posted by Quint the Alligator Snapper:

A neutral option makes well-written reviews easier to find.

How so?

Neutral reviews are more likely to contain information about the good and the bad because a combination of those is what would make someone want to use a neutral rating.

Some of those will still end up being categorized as positive or negative, but when I'm looking at a large number of reviews, the neutral ones will have this stuff more often. Positive and Negative have a greater concentration of praise and flaming without these details.

Originally posted by cinedine:

Or you are once again implying only neutral reviews are well written?

I've never said that only neutral reviews are well-written; please stop misrepresenting what I've said.